The 4 o'clock Avanti...

Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
TheGreenGoblin
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 4865
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:02 pm
Location: Cold Turkey

The 4 o'clock Avanti...

#1 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:54 am

I noted the return of the unholy roar come whine, that lasts over 5 minutes in its coming and going, of the 4 o'clock Avanti that routes via the LAM dct DVR and onwards to Italy, I presume. Its, to me anyway although living in proximity to an airport where these aircraft operate must be unmitigated hell, welcome return marked a resumption, in aviation terms, of business as usual in these Covid addled times.

As the noise slowly faded I got to thinking about fast props, the hot rods of the air, both turbo and piston engined and asked myself some questions. Questions such as what was the fasted prop aircraft to operate with the RAF or the FAA? What is the fastest prop of all time and so on?

The RAF question was easily answered thanks to the ever interesting Fly Past magazine and good old Google. Seems the de Havilland Hornet, flown by, albeit briefly, the RAF and FAA was probably the fastest although the FAA may claim that the Sea Fury was their fastest prop driven aircraft.

Fly Past on the de Havilland Hornet

de Havilland Hornet.JPG
de Havilland Hornet.JPG (14.92 KiB) Viewed 174 times

The Hornet was indeed an interesting aircraft, well thought of by test pilots like Captain Eric "Winkle" Brown, although, like many de Havilland offerings it tended to come unglued after a time as was noted when a FAA Hornet disintegrated at speed while undergoing sea trials.
“I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by.” - Douglas Adams

User avatar
TheGreenGoblin
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 4865
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:02 pm
Location: Cold Turkey

Re: The 4 o'clock Avanti...

#2 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sat Jun 20, 2020 9:07 am

TheGreenGoblin wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:54 am
What is the fastest prop of all time and so on?

Answered in this very interesting Wiki page...


Fastest propeller driven aircraft





When modification goes one step too far...

“I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by.” - Douglas Adams

Boac
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 8993
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:12 pm
Location: Here

Re: The 4 o'clock Avanti...

#3 Post by Boac » Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:08 am

17g!!?? Neck broken for sure. I'm surprised the airframe held together.

larsssnowpharter
Capt
Capt
Posts: 476
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:31 pm
Location: United Kingdom
Gender:

Re: The 4 o'clock Avanti...

#4 Post by larsssnowpharter » Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:54 pm

I mentioned on the Beaufighter thread that my father flew the Hornet for a tour on 45Sqn at Tengah in the early 50s. It was his favourite aircraft to fly of all time and considering he has over 80 types that is quite a statement.

There is a photo on the site of a very young Larss sitting in the cockpit of a Hornet at Tengah.

Yes, it was fast and I have heard it called 'the fastest production twin piston of all time' but suspect that this award may be an exaggeration. Tigercat and Do 335 were up there too. Of course altitude etc have a part to play.

A few Hornet stories from sitting on my father's knee:

It had a 5 degree toe in on the main gear to aid braking and the engines were 'handed' so that the propellers rotated in different directions.

FEAF had a requirement to operate it as a dive bomber(!!!). Thus Dad had to fly some trials from Butterworth bombing an innocent lump of rock to the North of Penang. These trials were to determine the max angle of dive, and thus accuracy, that could be achieved. On his steepest attempt, Dad pulled out of the dive and the upper wing panels departed. As he puts it, "I was pretty sure there was nothing in Pilot's Notes to cover this eventuality but a handling check showed that the aircraft was perfectly controllable. I headed back to Butterworth but then thought about the limited maintenance there which would mean that I would have to go to Singapore by rail and miss the Mess party the next night. I explained the problem with the wing upper surfaces to the duty controller and my intention of diverting to Tengah. The controller expressed some doubts so I barrel rolled over the tower to illustrate the problem. The flight to Tengah was uneventful but I made a point of avoiding the rain clouds thinking that the wings might collect water."

On another occasion he had a 500 lb bomb hang up. "I spent an hour over the sea doing every possible manoeuvre to get the bloody thing to release. It simply wouldn't. I returned to Tengah and made the most gentle landing possible. On braking, I saw a 500 lb bomb sliding down the runway in front of me. I braked harder but the bomb clearly had better brakes so I applied power, took off and waited until it was dealt with. I have no idea why it didn't arm and explode".

Married Quarters for us at Tengah were a few hundred yards from the runway and one day Dad had to do a wheels up. I saw it and stood next to my mother who calmly took photos of it. I can recall perfectly clearly being taken to see the aircraft which was relatively undamaged with, to me, just bent props. However, I am told that my comment was, "Daddy bent it", and I wouldn't speak to him for days.

I also have a connection with the Avanti in that I did the translation of some of the Pilot's Notes. Involved a nice to Genova and a couple of hours in the right hand seat.

Boac
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 8993
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:12 pm
Location: Here

Re: The 4 o'clock Avanti...

#5 Post by Boac » Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:30 pm

Classic tales, lars - loved the wing water-tank and bomb stories. :-bd

User avatar
TheGreenGoblin
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 4865
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:02 pm
Location: Cold Turkey

Re: The 4 o'clock Avanti...

#6 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:50 pm

Boac wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:30 pm
Classic tales, lars - loved the wing water-tank and bomb stories. :-bd
+1
“I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by.” - Douglas Adams

User avatar
TheGreenGoblin
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 4865
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:02 pm
Location: Cold Turkey

Re: The 4 o'clock Avanti...

#7 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:57 pm

Boac wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:08 am
17g!!?? Neck broken for sure. I'm surprised the airframe held together.
In 1998, another modified P-51 Mustang, Voodoo Chile, lost a left trim tab during the Reno Air Races. The pilot, Bob "Hurricane" Hannah, reported that the airplane pitched up, subjecting him to more than 10 g and knocking him unconscious. When he regained consciousness, the plane had climbed to more than 9,000 feet (2,750 m), and he brought it in for a safe landing.This aircraft (having been renamed to Voodoo) was in attendance at the 2011 race, and nearby at the time of the accident.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Re ... aces_crash
“I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by.” - Douglas Adams

User avatar
TheGreenGoblin
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 4865
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:02 pm
Location: Cold Turkey

Re: The 4 o'clock Avanti...

#8 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:11 pm

Boac wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:08 am
17g!!?? Neck broken for sure. I'm surprised the airframe held together.
In 1998, another modified P-51 Mustang, Voodoo Chile, lost a left trim tab during the Reno Air Races. The pilot, Bob "Hurricane" Hannah, reported that the airplane pitched up, subjecting him to more than 10 g and knocking him unconscious. When he regained consciousness, the plane had climbed to more than 9,000 feet (2,750 m), and he brought it in for a safe landing.This aircraft (having been renamed to Voodoo) was in attendance at the 2011 race, and nearby at the time of the accident.
The NTSB thoroughly investigated the extensive modifications made to the airplane. The modifications had made the aircraft lighter and reduced drag but decreased stability. Leeward took the plane to 530 mph (850 km/h) during the race, about 40 mph (65 km/h) faster than he had gone previously.[20] There was evidence of extreme stress on the airframe demonstrated by buckling of the fuselage aft of the wing and gaps appearing between the fuselage and the canopy during the flight (visible in high-resolution photographs taken by spectators).

The investigation report, released in August 2012, found that the probable cause of the crash was reused single-use locknuts in the left elevator trim tab system that loosened. This led to a fatigue crack in an attachment screw and allowed the trim tab to flutter. This flutter caused the trim tab link assembly to fail which led to the loss of control of the aircraft. Untested and undocumented modifications to the airplane contributed to the accident. Particularly, the right trim tab had been fixed in place. Had both trim tabs been operational, the loss of the left trim tab alone may not have caused the loss of control. When the trim tab failed, Leeward experienced 17 g, which quickly incapacitated him and likely rendered him unconscious.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Re ... aces_crash
“I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by.” - Douglas Adams

G-CPTN
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 3307
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:22 pm
Location: Tynedale
Gender:
Age: 76

Re: The 4 o'clock Avanti...

#9 Post by G-CPTN » Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:16 pm

TheGreenGoblin wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:11 pm

The investigation report, released in August 2012, found that the probable cause of the crash was reused single-use locknuts in the left elevator trim tab system that loosened.
Fatal mistake.

User avatar
TheGreenGoblin
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 4865
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:02 pm
Location: Cold Turkey

Re: The 4 o'clock Avanti...

#10 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:44 am

larsssnowpharter wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:54 pm

I also have a connection with the Avanti in that I did the translation of some of the Pilot's Notes. Involved a nice to Genova and a couple of hours in the right hand seat.
I note that the Avanti uses a supercritical aerofoil and a unconventional 3-lifting-surface concept to delay transonic wave drag, not to mention a possibly catastrophic change in the centre of pressure in the transonic range

Some Avanti details....


“I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by.” - Douglas Adams

Post Reply