Michel Wibault - the Frenchman who foresaw the Harrier

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Re: Michel Wibault - the Frenchman who foresaw the Harrier

#41 Post by Cacophonix » Sat May 26, 2018 9:20 pm

boing wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 8:09 pm
Happened to work with TLT for a while. A most interesting fellow.

(View mainly from 2.48 on)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToDQuNpOPnQ


What a lovely bloke and what a story. Age shall not wither them.

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Re: Michel Wibault - the Frenchman who foresaw the Harrier

#42 Post by Boac » Sun May 27, 2018 6:59 am

I hope Tom is getting looked after properly, boing.

For Caco, you can get a bit of 'dual' with Bruce Cogram in

where several former colleagues appear (all but one of the dashing RAF pilots now 'deceased, including Bruce, in a mid-air). The sim instructors used to 'enjoy' placing Kellogs Cornflakes plastic animal models just behind hills on the visual model so as you crested over the top you would be met by a 100ft tall camel........... =))

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Re: Michel Wibault - the Frenchman who foresaw the Harrier

#43 Post by Cacophonix » Mon May 28, 2018 9:06 am

Boac wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 6:59 am
I hope Tom is getting looked after properly, boing.

For Caco, you can get a bit of 'dual' with Bruce Cogram in

where several former colleagues appear (all but one of the dashing RAF pilots now 'deceased, including Bruce, in a mid-air). The sim instructors used to 'enjoy' placing Kellogs Cornflakes plastic animal models just behind hills on the visual model so as you crested over the top you would be met by a 100ft tall camel........... =))
At the risk of sounding like a pedant. "Finals!" Really gentlemen! ;)))

Just kidding, if you can fly a Harrier you can say "turning and burning at holding point Alpha" and presumably ATC won't hit the emergency button! =))

Plonking it down seems a good turn of phrase what ever you fly and I guess if you can "plonk" a Harrier down then you have ascended the Olympian (or should that be Pegasian) heights and are supping and sipping at the table of the Sky God's!

Another Caco question. What was the Harrier like to land sans thrust vectoring presuming an ISA day on a level runway at QFE 1013.25?

Anybody can answer but only bona fide practical comments or articles or interviews with the cognoscenti will be taken seriously. Boac where are you? :))

On a serious note it is sad to hear about the mortality rate amongst all those young men!

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Re: Michel Wibault - the Frenchman who foresaw the Harrier

#44 Post by Cacophonix » Mon May 28, 2018 9:56 am

Boac wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 6:59 am
I hope Tom is getting looked after properly, boing.

The sim instructors used to 'enjoy' placing Kellogs Cornflakes plastic animal models just behind hills on the visual model so as you crested over the top you would be met by a 100ft tall camel........... =))
Shoot me kangaroo down sport...


https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/shoot ... own-sport/

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Re: Michel Wibault - the Frenchman who foresaw the Harrier

#45 Post by Boac » Mon May 28, 2018 10:17 am

Classic! Enjoyed that. Luckily our Camels were not armed with SAMs. :))

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Re: Michel Wibault - the Frenchman who foresaw the Harrier

#46 Post by Cacophonix » Mon May 28, 2018 2:31 pm

Cacophonix wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 9:20 pm
boing wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 8:09 pm
Happened to work with TLT for a while. A most interesting fellow.
Graham Williams and Tom Lecky-Thompson, the two pilots of Harriers in the Daily Mail Transatlantic Air Race. (Graham Williams Collection).JPG
Graham Williams and Tom Lecky-Thompson, the two pilots of Harriers in the Daily Mail Transatlantic Air Race. (Graham Williams Collection).JPG (59.98 KiB) Viewed 1400 times
TLT.JPG
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There took place the Daily Mail Transatlantic Air Race, to commemorate the fiftieth anniversary of the first non-stop flight by Alcock and Brown in 1919. It is not known who first thought of entering a brace of Harriers in this event, but apparently there was a spat between the Ministries of Defence and Technology as to who should take the credit for the idea. 38 The race involved getting someone (often a passenger, but in the case of the Harrier, the pilot) from the top of the Empire State Building in New York, to the top of the Post Office Tower in London, or vice versa for the westbound race. There were various classes of entry, according to the type of aircraft used. 39 In London the Harrier pilots used motor-cycles and helicopters to travel between the Post Office Tower and the designated pad for the Harriers, the former railway coal yard beside St Pancras station. The Board of Trade, then responsible for civil aviation matters, refused to get involved with the certification of the coal yard for aviation use, 40 and so the yard became RAF St Pancras for a short while. Jeff Carr was the company representative there. In New York the Harriers used a tract of unused land at the foot of East 25th Street on the East River. This belonged to the United Nations, and had been created years before, from the dumping of rubble used as ballast by westbound merchant ships returning from taking supplies to Britain during the Second World War. Much of the rubble came from blitzed buildings in Bristol, and the Gp Capt Peter Williamson, the CO of RAF Wittering, where the first Harrier squadron was to be based, was given the task of organising the RAF entry, even though at the time he had received no aircraft and could not provide the pilots. The small pool of Boscombe Down pilots qualified on the Harrier provided Sqn Ldrs Tom Lecky-Thompson and Graham Williams as pilots. One aircraft was to fly eastbound, and the other westbound. Graham Williams was not alone in thinking the idea was mad, given the immaturity of the aircraft, the fact that air-to-air refuelling with the Harrier had yet to be developed, and the low hours on the type that any of the pilots had, but realised that there was no time but in the Air Race in which to show off what the aircraft could do. Harrier XV744, to be used by Graham Williams on the eastbound run, was flown over to America by Tom Lecky-Thompson on Monday 28 April.

This flight was used as a rehearsal, particularly for the refuelling operations to be undertaken across the Atlantic, using Victor tankers. Some improvements in technique were identified, and it was hoped that this could knock some time off the run itself. There was also to be a reserve aircraft in New York. This was XV746, flown out later by Andy Jones. Once the eastbound aircraft had departed, and once the westbound aircraft had arrived, two Harriers would be in New York. From the early days of planning, it was intended that these two aircraft would undertake a short tour of demonstration flights for the US military.

The Air Race started on Thursday 1 May 1969, with competitors racing against the clock. Tom Lecky-Thompson took his Harrier, XV741, into RAF St Pancras on Saturday 3 May. His first attempt was frustrated by fog, and after wandering around some tall buildings but not finding RAF St Pancras, he diverted to Northolt. He succeeded later that day. He flew it in the race on the following Monday. Early that morning he set all the switches for a quick take-off, and aligned the inertial platform. The ground crew was instructed to keep the aircraft on ground power until he came back. He took 5 min 25 sec to travel from the top of the Post Office Tower to St Pancras, the greater part of which journey was in a helicopter, which so stirred up coal dust in the yard that the cockpit was contaminated with it. A Hawker document later noted of the pilot, ‘His subsequent luncheon of anthracite dust sandwiches stands as an all-time low in transatlantic catering.’

Forty-five seconds later he was strapped in. He started the engine, and performed two quick engine acceleration checks. The deceleration after each of these checks apparently caused spectators to think that he had engine trouble, but it was routine, and the speedy start and departure were a fine demonstration of a scramble in the best traditions of Fighter Command. In all of this he found that in spite of his preparations, some tidy soul had raised the flaps. As a result the Harrier was reluctant to rise, in the suckdown effect. Thinking quickly, he slipped the nozzles back a few degrees to break out from it. Amid an enormous cloud of coal dust, and several disturbed rats, he lifted off from the coal sidings of Victorian London, leaving onlookers in a swirling black cloud. The thrust available from the Mk 101 Pegasus limited the amount of fuel for the required vertical takeoff, and exactly ten minutes after leaving the top of the Post Office Tower he plugged into his first Victor for more fuel. Refuelling across the Atlantic was to be undertaken another ten times, each at Mach 0.88, with bursts of Mach 0.95 between. All of this consumed no fewer than 257 counts on the engine life recorder, or about six times the number expected in ordinary service operation. It was a severe test of a relatively untried machine.

The weather for the arrival was perfect. Tom Lecky-Thompson wended his way down from Canada to New York through eighteen channels on the radio, flying through all sorts of light aircraft up there to greet him. He then did something none of them could do: He used his nozzles to stop. He inched forward over the pad to avoid dust but then stopped for a true vertical landing at 5 hrs 57 min from take-off. The engine was stopcocked, other systems shut down, and he was out of the cockpit for a dash on a motor-cycle to the Empire State Building. The driver of the motor-cycle was an off-duty policeman, a member of the NYPD Flying Club, who happened to find that all the traffic signals through Manhattan were green. 50 The total journey time was 6 hrs 11 min 57.15 sec.

Dow, Andrew. Pegasus, The Heart of the Harrier: The History and Development of the World's First Operational Vertical Take-off and Landing Jet Engine

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Re: Michel Wibault - the Frenchman who foresaw the Harrier

#47 Post by Cacophonix » Mon May 28, 2018 3:21 pm

Boac wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 4:21 pm
:-bd Right! Just have to have a word with Art Nalls in the States and get you checked out (in the aeroplane, not in bed) =)) .
Art Nalls
On April 29, 1983, during a training flight near Richmond, Virginia, Nalls' Harrier suffered a complete loss of engine power. Since the engine failure occurred at sufficient altitude, he opted to glide the Harrier to a civilian airport and perform a deadstick landing, stopping just 50 feet (15 meters) short of the runway's end. Nalls was awarded the Air Medal for this first-of-a-kind Harrier landing.




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Re: Michel Wibault - the Frenchman who foresaw the Harrier

#48 Post by Boac » Mon May 28, 2018 3:24 pm

You have to admit 10 minutes from t'top of tower to first plug ain't shoddy!

Never had the privilege of flying XV741 - closest I got was XV740 with 4 Sqn.

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Re: Michel Wibault - the Frenchman who foresaw the Harrier

#49 Post by Cacophonix » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:28 pm

Just started reading J Farley's 'A View From The Hover'...

Who can put down a book that starts thus...
One day in 1982 I found myself thinking about the people I worked with at Kingston and Dunsfold. At the time I was flying Harrier engine development trials at the USAF Flight Test Centre at Edwards Air Force Base in California. We were there because ‘Edwards’, as it is known, had several huge dry lakebed runways which made it easy to carry out a glide landing should the engine misbehave. Because of the sheer space available, Edwards was also the landing site of choice in the early days of the NASA Space Shuttle. In a wonderful PR spectacular NASA arranged for the Shuttle to return from orbit and land at Edwards on Independence Day 1982 and for the crew to be welcomed by President Reagan. Naturally such an event on a major public holiday attracted enormous numbers of people and their cars, SUVs and camper vans to the perimeter of the highly guarded lakebed test site. The McDonnell Douglas hangar that we were using had a control room at the top with a prime view of the lakebed. Come mid-morning on the 4th July this was full of some fifty VIP guests eagerly awaiting the arrival of the Shuttle. Jack Jackson, a McDonnell Douglas test pilot colleague of mine, was standing at the big observation window hosting the visitors and commenting on the unfolding events. To anyone in the test flying business watching the Shuttle appear miles up as a mere dot streaming a contrail and seeing it decelerate from many times the speed of sound, dropping a double sonic boom in the process, followed by a glide round in a big circuit to a perfect touchdown was the ultimate demonstration of technology and capability. I for one was certainly very impressed. Naturally Jack’s VIPs were in full cheering mode as the President and the marching bands moved off below to greet the returning astronauts. Jack then announced completely off the cuff and because he was like that, “There is a Brit at the back of the room. Let's ask him what he thinks of what we have just seen”. Every head turned round and looked at me. It is not easy for a lone Brit to keep his end up in those circumstances then I thought about all the unsung workers at home who had contributed to the Harrier standing on the pan below. So I waved my arm generally in the Harrier’s direction, shrugged my shoulders and said “Pity it didn’t land vertically”.
Farley, John. A View From the Hover: My Life in Aviation

=))

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Re: Michel Wibault - the Frenchman who foresaw the Harrier

#50 Post by Boac » Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:59 pm

Yes, a great man in the history of the Harrier etc. He lives not that far from me and I have met him on several occasions. Getting on a bit now (him, not me - well, OK!) . A definite icon for 'bona-mates',who watched agog as he spun 360s down the runway at Farnborough at a fair lick - we had all been told that 'excessive yaw would kill you' - as it had a few times - but he had the secret of combatting the dreaded 'adverse intake momentum drag'.

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Re: Michel Wibault - the Frenchman who foresaw the Harrier

#51 Post by Cacophonix » Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:18 pm

I became a little over excited to learn that John Farley had been instructed on the Vampire Mk 9 by Flight Lieutenant Dickie Lord and just for a nanosecond imagined that he might have been South African Dick Lord but, of course, Dick Lord joined the Fleet Air Arm and couldn't have been much older than John Farley himself.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obitua ... -Lord.html


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Re: Michel Wibault - the Frenchman who foresaw the Harrier

#52 Post by Boac » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:10 pm

Sad to relay the news that John died last night. His knowledge and skills will be sadly missed.

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Re: Michel Wibault - the Frenchman who foresaw the Harrier

#53 Post by Cacophonix » Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:48 pm

Boac wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:10 pm
Sad to relay the news that John died last night. His knowledge and skills will be sadly missed.
Truly sad to hear and clearly a very good man, an extraordinary pilot and engineer has gone west! His like will be hard to find and he will never be forgotten.

The Harrier Development Story - by John Farley OBE AFC CEng

I had not realised Mr Farley's role in testing the Vulcan as well. A British legend and clearly an extraordinary aircraft!



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Re: Michel Wibault - the Frenchman who foresaw the Harrier

#54 Post by Cacophonix » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:53 am

Cacophonix wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:48 pm
Boac wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:10 pm
Sad to relay the news that John died last night. His knowledge and skills will be sadly missed.
had not realised Mr Farley's role in testing the Vulcan as well. !
And connection with Concorde test programme as well!
Vulcan Test Pilot - Tony Blackman Ref. J Farley Part 1.JPG
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Re: Michel Wibault - the Frenchman who foresaw the Harrier

#55 Post by Cacophonix » Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:13 pm

All this VSTOL stuff and I haven't mentioned the Soviet Harrierski's, the Yak-38 and Yak-141.



Peter Ustinov gives a reasonable synopsis of this type.

https://defenceoftherealm.wordpress.com ... 38-forger/

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Re: Michel Wibault - the Frenchman who foresaw the Harrier

#56 Post by Cacophonix » Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:26 pm

http://www.military-today.com/aircraft/yak_141.htm
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Re: Michel Wibault - the Frenchman who foresaw the Harrier

#57 Post by Cacophonix » Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:02 pm

John Farley's notes on the Yak VSTOL aircraft are well worth reading.
Annexe B Thoughts on seeing the Yak-38 and Yak-141 aircraft at Farnborough 1992 The most obvious difference between the Yak and the Hawker way of achieving VSTOL is the number of engines. Yak use three on both the 38 and the 141. Two vertically mounted lift engines are just behind the cockpit with one horizontally mounted thrust vectoring engine further aft. On the other hand Hawker chose a single engine with four interconnected swivelling exhausts to vector the total installed thrust for both horizontal and vertical flight.

The Yaks need all three engines to work in the hover and the failure of any one will cause a violent and immediate change in pitch attitude since all the engines exhaust at some distance from the aircraft centre of gravity. The Harrier engine is virtually at the CG so, should it fail in the hover, the aircraft falls but with no great attitude change. With over 800 Harriers delivered, this has happened only once since 1960. (That USMC aircraft hit flat bending the wings and gear. The pilot did not eject but was unhurt).

Yak deal with VSTOL failures by automatically ejecting the pilot should the aircraft attitude exceed certain limits. Vladimir Yakimov, Chief Test Pilot for Yakovlev quoted these for the Yak-38 as: 15° nose up, 10° nose down and 20° in roll. These values are increased to 25° nose up, 20° nose down and 30° in roll in the Yak-141. Yakovlev say the seat has a 100% success record with 21 auto and 13 pilot initiated ejections.

If we assume all engines have the same reliability, the Yak concept is more than three times as likely to suffer an engine problem than the Harrier. This is because a three engine installation is inherently more complex than a single one and such installation aspects can contribute to thrust loss causes. There is also the matter of lift engine starting system reliability at the end of every sortie, assuming that there is no runway within range that is long enough for a conventional landing.

Combat damage of powered lift and control systems also needs to be considered. A Harrier pilot only needs high rpm, a variable nozzle angle and reaction controls to carry out a safe VL. These items can be checked quickly at any speed below 500 kt by opening the throttle fully (to check rpm response) then momentarily pulling the nozzle lever back (to check nozzle rotation) and, while the lever is still back, moving the stick and rudder (to check the reaction control air supply or ‘duct pressure’ behaviour is normal).

A Yak pilot suspecting damage will have to suck it and see when in the circuit. To be fair, this is no worse than the way that a conventional aircraft pilot has to wait to see if such things as his gear, flaps, weight on wheels sensors, thrust reverser, braking chute, hook, wheel brakes, tyres and nosewheel steering will do the necessary to stop his aircraft on the narrow, cross-wind, 500 metres strip that the brochure says is OK.

The Harrier concept has major problems not present with the Yaks. They stem from needing one very large engine close to the CG and include aerodynamic distortions due to exhaust flows passing close to the airframe; a short air intake that is poor for efficiency, surge margin and head on signature, one compromise engine and intake design to deal with the conflicting requirements of low and high speeds and a general lack of flexibility in overall layout.

The Yak engine configuration has problems beyond the engine failure case. For example, the total installed thrust is not available throughout the flight envelope, the lift engines take up valuable volume that could be used for more internal fuel and their weight effect is similar to carrying around a couple of large but ‘dud’ weapons.

The blast, vibration and temperature environment under the fuselage centreline during V/STOL limits high tech stores carriage to the wings (unlike the Harrier where it is possible to splay the nozzle efflux 15° either side of the vertical viewed from behind). Once a Yak has its lift engines running for takeoff, any holding point delays will warm and soften asphalt surfaces (or concrete block seals) so that they erode when the aircraft later moves forward. This actually happened at Farnborough when the Yak-38 had an unexpected 20 minute hold before lining up for its first pre-show qualifying sortie.

Despite such configuration induced problems, Yak were quoting a 141 internal fuel load of 4,400 kg for an 11,650 kg empty weight (37.7%) which compares with early Harrier Is at 5,000 lb for 12,500 lb (40%) rising to some 43% for later Harrier IIs. However, given the better optimisation of the Yak cruise engine, wingborne range and endurance are likely to be in the same ballpark for both concepts. This was certainly not the case with the earlier Yak-38 which was observed to fly sorties of only about one third the endurance of the Harrier.

Intake ingestion of foreign objects is a problem for both concepts. However, careful pilot control of thrust vector angle versus ground speed has shown that Harriers can operate from loose surfaces. The Yak engines require a non-erodable surface for routine operation. A ship’s steel deck would be ideal, especially if it was fitted with a gridded area at the deck edge.

Most of the foregoing is by way of background. What was new to me came from talking to Vladimir Yakimov and Alexander Dondukov, Yak's Chairman and General Designer, from watching videos of their operations back home and seeing both aeroplanes fly.

A cockpit brief in both aircraft showed that, so far as pilot operation is concerned, the Yak's VSTOL controls are perhaps even less demanding on the pilot than the Harrier's simple nozzle lever. Understanding how this is achieved, given the inherently complex Yak three engined concept, is to appreciate the remarkable hydro-mechanical control engineering achievement on the 38, which has none of the 141's fly by wire facilities. However, such comparison presumes familiarity with Harrier piloting techniques.

The Harrier pilot has two engine controls mounted side by side on the left console: a normal fighter type throttle outboard and alongside it the special ‘nozzle lever’. Pushing this nozzle lever fully forward points the jets aft while pulling it back progressively increases the downwards deflection of the exhausts, up to a maximum angle of 18° forward of the hover position.

This nozzle lever is sometimes used as a configuration change selector and sometimes as a flying control. Examples of the selector type of use being pulling the lever back to select the nozzles down, for example prior to doing a VTO, a hover, or a VL. The actual height control of these three manoeuvres is then done by throttle adjustment. An example of the lever being used in the control sense is when it is moved progressively forwards, from its hovering position, to control speed and flight path angle during an accelerating transition, the throttle remaining fixed throughout. Another example is the use of the nozzle lever to control the airspeed during a fixed throttle slow approach when weight precludes a VL. Such control/selector uses (and habits) must not be confused (like accidently selecting the nozzles aft in the hover!)

On the other hand, despite his three engines, the Yak-38 pilot has only a single throttle handle operating in a fore and aft slide on the left cockpit wall. On the left hand console, in a similar position to the Harrier's nozzle lever, is a lever which is used only as a selector for choosing the VSTOL or conventional mode of the flight control system. This lever never has a control function.

In VSTOL mode, use of the single throttle gives height control through thrust modulation of all engines, while stick forwards and back gives pitch attitude control by differential thrust modulation of the lift and main engines. A trimmer-like switch on the top of the stick controls the vectoring nozzle angle and the limited rearwards component of the lift engines thrust. As on the SC1, this switch is a case of push forward to go faster, pull back to go slower. It has no other function or mode so confusion is unlikely. Additionally, the display of the vectoring nozzle angle is clear and shown to the pilot as it would appear to an external observer of the side elevation of the aircraft, with the needle indicating the direction of thrust. This gauge has a line to mark 60° on the Yak-141 from which angle the rest of the transition can be automatic if desired.

Playing such mode change tricks with the control systems in order to simplify the piloting task is nothing special in the world of fly by wire, but to make it all happen in the Yak-38 is an astonishing achievement. Vladimir Yakimov suggested I would "find the control system very interesting". He went on to repeat the point. However I believed him the first time. Watching videos of the Yak-38 doing short takeoffs and rolling landings and operating vertically from a mobile hide completed my education on Yakovlev’s achievements with a configuration which is intrinsically problematical.

The mobile hide was a lorry like container, the sides and ends of which folded down to become the pad showing the benefits of folding wings again. After this briefing the flying rehearsals and demonstrations were just as I expected: routine wingborne operation of both types, including takeoff and landing but with hovers thrown in mid-sortie. All slow flight was carried out with remarkable attitude steadiness but then you don’t bow to the President at the end of your show with a Yak unless you want to eject and plant the aeroplane in his tent.

So what conclusions should we draw? It is very dangerous to oversimplify what are complex issues but, at that stage of VSTOL history, it was difficult to avoid the conclusion that the Harrier concept represented the best way to do a military sub-sonic VSTOL job.

Supersonic flight, with its requirement for high exhaust gas velocities, is a very different matter and it simply would not work to immerse the existing Harrier configuration in such velocities and temperatures. On the other hand, the Yak solution to powered lift, proven in the 38 and developed further in the 141, is suitable to drop in to the plan view of a Mig-29 or a Su-27/35. Looked at like that, putting the Yak-38 in service becomes a very sensible stepping stone towards an ultimate supersonic goal and a far cry from being a poor attempt at doing ‘a Harrier’ as suggested in the 1970s by many who should have known better.
Farley, John. A View From the Hover: My Life in Aviation.


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Re: Michel Wibault - the Frenchman who foresaw the Harrier

#58 Post by Cacophonix » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:05 am

I am rereading John Farley's book and in one of those "road not taken whimsies" that I am apt to indulge in, now that I have a better idea of what helicopter flying is all about, was wondering how the difficulty in flying a helicopter compared to flying a Harrier? Ridiculous I know, as I am not a military fast jet driver, nor a licensed helicopter pilot yet, but when whimsy drives, reality becomes opaque. Anyway this wonderful John Farley anecdote sprang into my addled transom.
in those days everybody wanted to know how hovering the Harrier compared to hovering a helicopter. Therefore, after describing how and why it was so much easier and altogether more sensible than a helicopter, I told a hoary old joke suitably modified to emphasise this point. I explained that, just before coming out to the US, I had to do a prolonged performance hover just after lunch and dosed off in the middle of this zero work load procedure. Having nodded off, I had a dream of the future where I was walking down a street of small shops, one of which had a window full of glass jars containing brains from people who had died that one could buy to transplant if not satisfied with one’s own. Their prices ranged from a few dollars for those that had been well used up to one on the top shelf that was priced at $10,000. I asked the shop keeper why this one was so expensive. “That, Sir, is the best brain in the house. A truly wonderful brain from a man who went on to design helicopters. It is as good as new and has never been used.” The reaction of the audience to this punch line surprised me. It was not just the silence but the way people turned to look at each other. Then somebody clapped at the back of the room and gradually the cheering and table banging started. “Funny lot” I thought. As we mingled after the meal, Bill took me to meet an old man in his eighties who was the clearly revered private guest of the base commander. "Sir" said Bill, "I'd like to introduce John Farley". We shook hands. "Loved your story, perhaps we should talk some time" said the old man. His name was not mentioned. "Nice to meet you, Sir" said I and we moved away. The next day as I approached the crew room, I overheard somebody retelling my punch line. The reaction this time was: "Jeezus, he told that in front of Frank Piasecki!"
Farley, John. A View From the Hover: My Life in Aviation.

I think I might have liked John Farley! =))

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Frank Piasecki


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Re: Michel Wibault - the Frenchman who foresaw the Harrier

#59 Post by Boac » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:37 am

A classic 'foot in mouth' event.
I think I might have liked John Farley!
- I can assure you you would - a gentleman indeed, and modest too.

Operating the jet (once you had mastered it and obeyed the 'rules'!) was delightfully 'easy' cf a helicopter - no vibration for a start.....(and a bang seat....)

I wish I could track down a copy of the Harrier OCU (RAF Wittering) training film shown to all new studes. I don't think it has been 'released' outside the RAF. Apart from the bit where the US Marine trainee 'forgot' Rule 1 and died, it had some hilarious clips. All early solo 'hovering' exercises were video'd, normally from a Land Rover, near whichever pad was in use. The first solo hoverex was what was known as a 'press up' - a lift to an approx 50ft hover and VL back to the spot. The reason for the Land Rover and not a tripod became obvious since the LR occasionally had to 'chase' the 'static' hover across the airfield... there were some wonderful shots including one that travelled a few hundred feet before eventually slowly backing up, a little red-faced, to the hover 'spot'. Another clip of the well-known 'wheelbarrow' technique where the jet was inadvertently tipped forward onto its nosewheel and scooted some distance before 'control' was regained - again persued by the LR.

Cacophonix
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Re: Michel Wibault - the Frenchman who foresaw the Harrier

#60 Post by Cacophonix » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:58 am

Boac wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:37 am
A classic 'foot in mouth' event.
I think I might have liked John Farley!
- I can assure you you would - a gentleman indeed, and modest too.

Operating the jet (once you had mastered it and obeyed the 'rules'!) was delightfully 'easy' cf a helicopter - no vibration for a start.....(and a bang seat....)

I wish I could track down a copy of the Harrier OCU (RAF Wittering) training film shown to all new studes. I don't think it has been 'released' outside the RAF. Apart from the bit where the US Marine trainee 'forgot' Rule 1 and died, it had some hilarious clips. All early solo 'hovering' exercises were video'd, normally from a Land Rover, near whichever pad was in use. The first solo hoverex was what was known as a 'press up' - a lift to an approx 50ft hover and VL back to the spot. The reason for the Land Rover and not a tripod became obvious since the LR occasionally had to 'chase' the 'static' hover across the airfield... there were some wonderful shots including one that travelled a few hundred feet before eventually slowly backing up, a little red-faced, to the hover 'spot'. Another clip of the well-known 'wheelbarrow' technique where the jet was inadvertently tipped forward onto its nosewheel and scooted some distance before 'control' was regained - again persued by the LR.
Ah the 'static' hover, or, known to me as my "not backwards in coming forwards" debacle! =))

On reading Mr Farley's book again I am appreciating his subtle wit and good humour better. He wrote very well on top of all his other manifest skills.

I must say one thing for the few helicopter pilots I have met to date. They all seem like good chaps with senses of humour.

Caco

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