Another Navy Wings article...

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Pontius Navigator
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Re: Another Navy Wings article...

#201 Post by Pontius Navigator » Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:49 am

The RAF assessment of the Spoule net, NIH, was it was fine for fishing dead bodies out with the implication that if you weren't dead you would be.

I read the obituary, not of Cdr Sproule, but of the WREN who was the tester.

Digressing from the net to another Naval report or obit, I can't remember exactly, but another Naval Surgeon believed that some survivors died, or came close to death, not from the immersion but the winching and probably wind chill.

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Re: Another Navy Wings article...

#202 Post by CharlieOneSix » Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:05 am

Pontius Navigator wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:49 am
.......I read the obituary, not of Cdr Sproule, but of the WREN who was the tester......
Sadly John Sproule was walking in Shoreham when he was killed in a road accident many years ago. A very pleasant man who I met a few times when he used to pop into our offices. Another of his inventions was the Harpoon for use in helicopter landings on ships - here's an early version from 1955....taken at HMS Peregrine, Royal Naval Air Station Ford, now a Category D Prison. I have a copy of John's patent for the Harpoon.
Harpoon_demonstrator_Ford_1955.jpg
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Re: Another Navy Wings article...

#203 Post by Pontius Navigator » Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:13 am

C16, one can think of many aviation related inventions by Naval personnel rather more than I can think of by airmen but perhaps because they are very obvious.

Angled flight decks and ski jumps being the most obvious. Whittle is an obvious RAF inventor less known outside the Services is The Lindholme Gear was developed at RAF Lindholme by Group Waring during the 1940s but there must be others.

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Re: Another Navy Wings article...

#204 Post by CharlieOneSix » Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:27 am

....and then there was the minesweeping Whirlwind HAR1 helicopter from 1955. No idea how successful this was....and not sure if this was a John Sproule invention. The minesweeping gear replaced the ventral fin.
Whirlwind3.jpg
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Re: Another Navy Wings article...

#205 Post by FD2 » Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:47 am

Don't forget the mirror landing sight and steam catapult!

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Re: Another Navy Wings article...

#206 Post by CharlieOneSix » Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:58 am

TheGreenGoblin wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:14 am
Nice update on the Sea Hawk restoration in this week's newsletter......
I've always thought the Seahawk was a very attractive aircraft and I would have loved to fly it. A long deceased Bristow pilot in ABZ was an ex-Seahawk pilot, having survived an ejection as a result of a mid-air collision with another one when he was based at Lossie. I think his back injuries led to him converting to helicopters. I seem to remember he said you didn't argue with a fire indication in the Seahawk as the "saddle tank" of fuel was right behind the pilot - there were no fuel tanks in the wings.

The first Seahawk I saw - WV225 - was the gate guardian at RNAS Culdrose (HMS Seahawk) in 1964 when I arrived there fresh from fixed wing training at Linton-on-Ouse and about to start helicopter training. The gate guardian is still there and is the longest serving one in the UK having been there since 1958, the aircraft having amassed only 455 flying hours during its service. Here's a photo from the 60's.
seahawk2.jpg
In my day it used to have its nav lights working but if memory serves me correctly they were permanently switched off following a road accident one night when some inattentive driver on the main road from Helston to the Lizard swerved to avoid what he thought was a very low flying aircraft and he crashed his car. The Seahawk has been moved slightly over the years and personally I think it is now displayed in a most unattractive angle and setting.
seahawk1.jpg
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Re: Another Navy Wings article...

#207 Post by G-CPTN » Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:08 pm

As a youngster I had a liking for the 'porpoise' livery aircraft - of which there were several.

I agree that the earlier presentation of the gate guardian was preferable.

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Re: Another Navy Wings article...

#208 Post by CharlieOneSix » Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:22 pm

CharlieOneSix wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:58 am
A long deceased Bristow pilot in ABZ was an ex-Seahawk pilot, having survived an ejection as a result of a mid-air collision with another one when he was based at Lossie......
Just found the details - Seahawks XE401 and WV839 collided during a formation change on 24 November 1960.
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Re: Another Navy Wings article...

#209 Post by Undried Plum » Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:16 am

Pontius Navigator wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:13 am
C16, one can think of many aviation related inventions by Naval personnel rather more than I can think of by airmen but perhaps because they are very obvious.

Angled flight decks and ski jumps being the most obvious. Whittle is an obvious RAF inventor less known outside the Services is The Lindholme Gear was developed at RAF Lindholme by Group Waring during the 1940s but there must be others.
A line of lipstick on a mirror by a Wren upon a billiard table, in a nice way, was used as a demonstrator to the Septics and became called "the ball". It was a fellow Scotsman, who I hope is still alive, who told me about that.



Post Scriptum; I'm so sorry to see and be reminded that he died five years ago. It makes me feel old that I'd forgotten that fact: in the same way that the stories he told me made he and I feel young again.

RIP Captain.

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Re: Another Navy Wings article...

#210 Post by Undried Plum » Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:43 am

Pontius Navigator wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:13 am
C16, one can think of many aviation related inventions by Naval personnel rather more than I can think of by airmen but perhaps because they are very obvious.

Angled flight decks and ski jumps being the most obvious. Whittle is an obvious RAF inventor less known outside the Services is The Lindholme Gear was developed at RAF Lindholme by Group Waring during the 1940s but there must be others.

A line of lipstick on a mirror by a Wren upon a billiard table, in a nice way, was used as a demonstrator to the Septics and became called "the ball". It was a fellow Scotsman, who I hope is still alive, who told me about that.



Post Scriptum; I'm so sorry to see and be reminded that he died five years ago. It makes me feel old that I'd forgotten that fact: in the same way that the stories he told me made he and I feel young again.

RIP Captain.



I'm appalled that I didn't pay proper tribute to Captain Brown.





The back end of his book, which lists the types he flew as PIC, is gob-smacking.

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Re: Another Navy Wings article...

#211 Post by Undried Plum » Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:21 am

Here are most of the types he flew as PIC:


Aeronca Grasshopper
Aerospatiale Alouette
Aerospatiale Ecureuil
Aerospatiale Twin Squirrel
Agusta 109
Aichi Val
Airspeed Ambassador
Airspeed Envoy
Airspeed Horsa
Airspeed Oxford
Arado 96B
Arado 196A
Arado 199
Arado 232B
Arado 234B - Blitz
Arado 240
Armstrong Whitworth Albemarle
Armstrong Whitworth Whitley
Auster Aiglet
Avro Anson
Avro Athena
Avro Lancaster
Avro Lancastrian
Avro Lincoln
Avro Manchester
Avro Shackleton
Avro Tudor
Avro Tutor
Avro York
B.A. Swallow
BAe 125
BAe 146
BAe Hawk
BAC Lightning
Baynes Carrier Wing
Beagle B.206
Beagle Pup
Beech Baron
Beech Bonanza
Beech Super King Air
Beech Traveller
Beechcraft Expediter
Bell AH-1 Huey
Bell 47
Bell 204
Bell 222
Bell Airacobra
Bell Airacomet
Bell HTL-5
Bell Jet Ranger
Bell King Cobra
Bell Long Ranger
Blackburn Beverley
Blackburn Botha
Blackburn Buccaneer
Blackburn Firebrand
Blackburn Firecrest
Blackburn Roc
Blackburn Shark
Blackburn Skua
Blohm & Voss 138
Blohm & Voss 141B
Blohm & Voss 222 Wiking
Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress
Boeing B-29 Superfortress
Boeing Vertol Chinook
Boulton Paul Defiant
Boulton Paul P.108
Boulton Paul Sea Balliol
Brantly B-2
Breguet Alizé
Breguet Atlantic
Brewster Buffalo
Bristol Beaufighter
Bristol Beaufort
Bristol Blenheim
Bristol Bombay
Bristol Brigand
Bristol Britannia
Bristol Buckingham
Bristol Bulldog
Bristol Freighter
Bristol Sycamore
Britten-Norman Islander
Bücker Bestmann
Bücker Jungmann
Bücker Jungmeister
Bücker Student
Cant Z1007
Caproni Ca.309
Caproni Ca.311
Caproni Ca.135
Cessna 150
Cessna Cardinal
Cessna Skymaster
Cessna Skywagon
Chance-Vought Corsair
Chance-Vought Cutlass
Chilton D.W.1
Chrislea Ace
Comper Swift
Consolidated Catalina
Consolidated Liberator
Consolidated Vultee Privateer
Convair 240-5
Curtiss Commando
Curtiss Helldiver
Curtiss Kittyhawk
Curtiss Mohawk
Curtiss Seamew
Curtiss Tomahawk
Dassault Étendard
Dassault Mirage
Dassault Mystère
de Havilland 86B
de Havilland Beaver
de Havilland Chipmunk
de Havilland Comet
de Havilland Devon
de Havilland Don
de Havilland Flamingo
de Havilland Fox Moth
de Havilland Gipsy Moth
de Havilland Heron
de Havilland Hornet Moth
de Havilland Mosquito
de Havilland Otter
de Havilland Puss Moth
de Havilland Rapide
de Havilland Sea Hornet
de Havilland Sea Mosquito
de Havilland Sea Vampire
de Havilland Sea Venom
de Havilland Sea Vixen
de Havilland Swallow
de Havilland Tiger Moth
de Havilland Vampire
Dewoitine 520
DFS 230
DFS Kranich
DFS Weihe
Dornier 17
Dornier 18
Dornier 24
Dornier 26
Dornier 27
Dornier 217
Dornier 335 - Pfeil
Douglas Boston
Douglas Dakota
Douglas Dauntless
Douglas Devastator
Douglas Invader
Douglas Skymaster
Douglas Skyknight
Douglas Skyraider
Druine Turbulent
Elliot Newbury Eon
Embraer Bandeirante
English Electric Canberra
Enstrom F28
Enstrom Shark
Erco Ercoupe
Fairchild Argus
Fairchild Cornell
Fairchild XNQ-1
Fairey IIIF
Fairey Albacore
Fairey Barracuda
Fairey Battle
Fairey Firefly
Fairey Fulmar
Fairey Gannet
Fairey Gordon
Fairey Primer
Fairey Spearfish
Fairey Swordfish
Fiat B.R.20
Fiat C.32
Fiat C.42
Fiat G.50
Fieseler Storch
Focke-Wulf 189 - Uhu
Focke-Wulf 190
Focke-Wulf 200 - Condor
Focke-Wulf 58 Weihe
Focke-Wulf Ta.152
Focke-Wulf Ta.154 - Moskito
Folland 43/37
Fouga Magister
Fournier Milan
General Aircraft Cygnet
General Aircraft Hamilcar
General Aircraft Hotspur
General Aircraft L/56
Gloster E.28/39
Gloster Gauntlet
Gloster Gladiator
Gloster Javelin
Gloster Meteor
Gloster Sea Meteor
Gotha 244
Grumman Ag-Cat
Grumman Albatross
Grumman Avenger
Grumman Bearcat
Grumman Cougar
Grumman Goose
Grumman Guardian
Grumman Hellcat
Grumman Panther
Grumman Tigercat
Grumman Widgeon
Grumman Wildcat
Handley Page Gugnunc
Handley Page Halifax
Handley Page Hampden
Handley Page Hastings
Handley Page Hermes
Handley Page Marathon
Handley Page Sparrow
Hawker Fury - biplane
Hawker Hart
Hawker Hector
Hawker Henley
Hawker Hunter
Hawker Hurricane
Hawker Nimrod
Hawker Osprey
Hawker P.1040
Hawker P.1052
Hawker P.1127 - VTOL (yes what became Harrier/Sea Harrier)
Hawker Sea Fury
Hawker Sea Hawk
Hawker Siddeley 748
Hawker Siddeley Gnat
Hawker Tempest
Hawker Typhoon
Heinkel 111
Heinkel 115
Heinkel 162 - Volksjäger
Heinkel 177 - Greif
Heinkel 219 - Uhu
Henschel 123
Henschel 129
Heston Phoenix
Hiller HTE
Hitachi T.2
Horten IV
Hughes 300
Hughes 500
Hunting Percival Jet Provost
Hunting Percival Provost
Ilyushin 2 - Shturmovik
Ilyushin 4
Jodel Ambassadour
Jodel Club
Jodel Excellence
Jodel Grand Tourisme
Jodel Mascaret
Jodel Mousqetaire
Junkers 52
Junkers 86
Junkers 87 - Stuka
Junkers 188
Junkers 290
Junkers 352
Junkers 388
Kamov 26
Kawasaki Tony
Klemm 26
Klemm 35D
Klemm L25
Klemm L27
Lavochkin 7
Le Vier Cosmic Wind
Ling Temco Vought Crusader
Lockheed Constellation
Lockheed Electra
Lockheed Hercules
Lockheed Hudson
Lockheed Lightning
Lockheed Neptune
Lockheed Shooting Star
Lockheed Starfighter
Lockheed Ventura
Luton Minor
Macchi C.202
Macchi C.205
Martin Baker M.B.5
Martin Baltimore
Martin Marauder
MBB Bo 105
McDonnell Banshee
McDonnell Douglas Skyhawk
McDonnell Phantom II
Messerschmitt 108 - Taifun
Messerschmitt 109
Messerschmitt 110
Messerschmitt 163 - Komet
Messerschmitt 262
Messerschmitt 410 - Hornisse
MIG-3
MIG-15
Mil-1
Mil-2
Mil-4
Miles 18
Miles 20
Miles 28
Miles 38
Miles 48
Miles Aerovan
Miles Falcon
Miles Gemini
Miles Hawk
Miles Hobby
Miles Libellula
Miles Magister
Miles Martinet
Miles Master
Miles Mentor
Miles Mohawk
Miles Monarch
Miles Monitor
Miles Sparrowhawk
Mitsubishi Betty
Mitsubishi Dinah
Mitsubishi Zeke - Zero
Mooney M20
Morane-Saulnier 406
Morane-Saulnier Paris
Morane-Saulnier Rallye
Muntz Youngman-Baynes
N.S.F.K. S.G.38
Nakajima Ki-84 Hayate (Frank)
Nakajima Ki-43 Hayabusa (Oscar)
Nipper III
Noorduyn Norseman
Nord 262A
Nord Noralpha
Nord Pingouin
North American Harvard
North American Mitchell
North American Mustang
North American Sabre
North American Savage
North American Super Sabre
North American Texan
Northrop Gamma Commercial
Northrop Black Widow
Northrop F-5
Orlikan Meta Sokol
Percival Gull
Percival Pembroke
Percival Prentice
Percival Proctor
Percival Q6
Percival Vega Gull
Petlyakov PE-2
Piaggio P.136
Piaggio P.166
Piasecki Retriever
Piel Emeraude
Pilatus Porter
Piper Apache
Piper Aztec
Piper Comanche
Piper Cub
Piper Cub Special 90
Piper Grasshopper
Piper Navajo
Piper Pawnee
Piper Seneca
Piper Supercruiser
Piper Tripacer
Piper Cherokee
Pitts Special
Polikarpov I-15
Polikarpov I-16
Portsmouth Aerocar Major
Reggiane 2000
Reggiane 2001
Reid & Sigrist Desford
Republic Seabee
Republic Lancer
Republic Thunderbolt
Republic Thunderjet
Republic Thunderstreak
Robin Royale
Robinson R-22
Rollason Condor
Ryan Fireball
Saab 21
Saab 29
Saab 105
Saab Lansen
Saab Safir
Saunders-Roe P.531
Saunders-Roe Skeeter
Saunders-Roe S.R./A.1
Savoia Marchetti SM79 - Sparviero
Savoia Marchetti SM82
Savoia Marchetti SM95
Scheibe Motorspatz
Schmetz Olympia-Meise
Schneider Baby Grunau
Scottish Aviation Bulldog
Scottish Aviation Pioneer
Scottish Aviation Twin Pioneer
Short S.31
Short Sealand
Short Skyvan
Short Stirling
Short Sturgeon
SIAI-Marchetti S.F.260
Siebel Si 204
Sikorsky HRS
Sikorsky R-4B Hoverfly
Sikorsky R-6A Hoverfly II
Sikorsky S-58T
Sikorsky S-61
Sikorsky S-76
Sipa S.903
Slingsby Capstan
Slingsby Kirby Cadet
Slingsby Motor Tutor
Slingsby Prefect
Slingsby Swallow
Slingsby T.21
Slingsby T.31
Socata Diplomate
Stampe et Vertongen SV-4
Stearman Caydet - (sic)
Stinson Junior R
Stinson Reliant
Stinson Sentinel
Sud-Aviation Djinn
Supermarine Attacker
Supermarine S.24/37 DUMBO
Supermarine Scimitar
Supermarine Sea Otter
Supermarine Seafang
Supermarine Seafire
Supermarine Seagull
Supermarine Spiteful
Supermarine Spitfire
Supermarine Walrus
SZD Bocian
Taylorcraft Auster
Taylor J.T.1 Monoplane
Taylor J.T.2 Titch
Thruxton Jackaroo
Tipsy S.2
Tipsy Trainer
Tipsy Type B
Vertol 107
Vickers Valiant
Vickers Vanguard
Vickers VC10
Vickers Viking
Vickers Viscount
Vickers Warwick
Vickers Wellington (Wellington VI)
Vickers Windsor
Vought-Sikorsky Chesapeake
Vought-Sikorsky Kingfisher
Vultee Vengeance
Waco CG-3
Waco Hadrian
Westland Aérospatiale Gazelle
Westland Aerospatiale Lynx
Westland Lysander
Westland Sikorsky S-51 Dragonfly
Westland Sikorsky S-55 Whirlwind
Westland Wasp
Westland Welkin
Westland Wessex
Westland Whirlwind
Westland Wyvern (Eagle engine)
Winter Zaunkönig - Wren
Yakovlev-1
Yakovlev-9
Yakovlev-11
Youngman-Baynes High Lift
Zlin Akrobat

He also flew the first ever takeoff and landings of twin engined aircraft onto/from ships, and flew the first jets onto and off from a ship at sea.

Non-trivial, I think.

Just count the types out, one by one, and consider flying them, each type one by one. They weren't in tidy alphabetical order for him. He just studied and flew them, one at at a time in more or less random order.

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Re: Another Navy Wings article...

#212 Post by FD2 » Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:55 am

Strange that someone uploaded that excellent Timeline documentary under the impression that Winkle Brown was an 'RAF ace'. Too thick to watch and understand. 'Comprehension' was what we called it in primary school.

That's not stated to start an inter-service argument! There were plenty of aces from both services.

Copious tributes paid on this website at the time of his death UP.

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Re: Another Navy Wings article...

#213 Post by CharlieOneSix » Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:36 pm

Undried Plum wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:43 am
.......A line of lipstick on a mirror by a Wren upon a billiard table, in a nice way, was used as a demonstrator to the Septics and became called "the ball".......
And there was me thinking Nick Goodhart invented the mirror deck landing sight. You learn something new every day!
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Re: Another Navy Wings article...

#214 Post by FD2 » Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:47 pm

Just remembered another first - the first jet landing and take off on a carrier, c/o Winkle Brown.

Nick Goodhart - what a career. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Goodhart

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Re: Another Navy Wings article...

#215 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:53 pm

CharlieOneSix wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:36 pm
Undried Plum wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:43 am
.......A line of lipstick on a mirror by a Wren upon a billiard table, in a nice way, was used as a demonstrator to the Septics and became called "the ball".......
And there was me thinking Nick Goodhart invented the mirror deck landing sight. You learn something new every day!
A whimsical, romantic notion though! ;)))

I had never heard of Nick Goodhart until you brought up him up here. Another extraordinary human being.
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Re: Another Navy Wings article...

#216 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:36 pm

Another chapter in the tradition of friendly rivalry between the RAF and the Royal Navy in this week's Navy Wings!

https://navywings.org.uk/portfolio/crimson-crabs/
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Re: Another Navy Wings article...

#217 Post by Boac » Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:06 pm

Does he give a date for that Dining-in?

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Re: Another Navy Wings article...

#218 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:59 pm

Boac wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:06 pm
Does he give a date for that Dining-in?
He doesn't but I suspect from reading the tinterweb that such a jape was pulled around or before 1972. The Red Arrows used the Foland Gnat between 1965 and 1979.

John Dixon is an amusing raconteur! =))

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Re: Another Navy Wings article...

#219 Post by Boac » Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:25 pm

72 fits, ta. I remember him from Leuchars.

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Re: Another Navy Wings article...

#220 Post by FD2 » Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:35 pm

The Gnat was such a beautiful little aircraft. I remember looking down on them flying down the Llanberis Pass below us when we were climbing on Dinas Cromlech,that would be about 1964. :YMAPPLAUSE:

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