Another Navy Wings article...

[TheGreenGoblin]

Historic Flight Yeovilton 19 March 1973.Took part in “Famous Grouse Rally and came 24th probably caused by being overweight as the Navy insisted on full safety equipment including immersion suits and life jackets (overland!) .

What say ye good Navy Men?

[FD2]

At last I've found it, not where I thought it was amongst some old magazines but courtesy of 'Model Flying' website:

Lt. Cdr. Bob McCulloch RN. Commanding Officer 899 Squadron, HMS Eagle. January 1967 wrote:-

In retrospect one amusing event occurred at RAF Gan. Whilst using Gan as the diversion one of the Vixens had to divert to the airfield. The pilot F/O Lewis RAF (another development at that time) on finding that one of his wheel brakes was unserviceable, and remembering his airfield briefing, asked for the "barrier" to be raised. On being told that this had been done he landed but could see no barrier, there followed a series of "where is it", "its up" etc before the aircraft gently rolled into the sea at the end of the runway. The irate Wing Commander Flying was more than a little taken aback to find two RAF officers climbing out of the Vixen and an irate John Lewis asking where hell was the barrier; the RAF "barrier" was in fact an arrestor wire! So much for interservice co-operation, the RAF later changed the name to hook wire.

In the drink:

672719.jpg (49.1 KiB) Viewed 1929 times

Taken back onboard:

672718.jpg (103.6 KiB) Viewed 1929 times

[Boac]

Yes! Another RAF v RN victory

One must assume the RN crew briefing system on the diversion facilities may have missed something?

[FD2]

One might assume that two RAF qualified aircrew might have known the correct call to make when landing at an RAF airfield. I had forgotten it was two light blue in the aircraft when I originally mentioned this incident, so it wasn't meant to be a piss take, but seeing as you've taken it up...

I don't think 'one must assume' that anything was missing from the briefing. If they knew there were arrestor wires at their diversion airfield, what exactly should they have called for when they weren't slowing fast enough, it being an RAF airfield and them being RAF aircrew? I seem to remember vaguely it was usually the aircraft captain's duty to fully familiarise himself with these sort of details - airfield plates etc.

[Boac]

The barrier? ("it being an RAF airfield and them being RAF aircrew?")

If they knew there were arrestor wires at their diversion airfield

Indeed, therein lies the rub. We will probably never know. Having read about the disastrous command of HMS Hermes during the Falklands.........

[CharlieOneSix]

....Having read about the disastrous command of HMS Hermes during the Falklands.........

No doubt an opinion formed after reading Jerry Pook's book. Thank God he was there - how on earth would the Navy Harriers and Hermes coped otherwise.

[Boac]

Not just JJ's book, C16. The opinion was widespread and through the Navy.

(I knew JJ for along time and I think you are right.......... )

[CharlieOneSix]

.....The opinion was widespread and through the Navy.

Well, if Lin Middleton commanded Hermes in the same manner as he 'commanded' British International Helicopters when he was their MD in a later life then I can understand that!

....Middleton joined the company after I'd left and as CharlieOneSix says he was not well liked - exactly for one of the reasons you thought. I was told that he wanted to address everybody to give them a bollocking and mend their slovenly ways or something similar. In the Navy he would have ordered a 'clear lower deck' which everyone in the ship apart from those on watch had to attend - and was hopping mad when told that he couldn't just order people into work as they were civilians and not subject to the Naval Discipline Act! We had a clear lower deck in Cherbourg in Hermes c1976 when a lot of the 'lads' had misbehaved ashore.

[FD2]

Middleton was an arrogant, aggressive character but I think the rather sweeping statement 'throughout the Navy' is a little exaggerated. He certainly wasn't liked but being amiable and well liked isn't necessarily the key to success - but what the hell has he got to do with this incident? Was he captain of Eagle at the time? Of course not, just about squadron C.O. level perhaps.

It could just as well have been a pair of dark blue aircrew in there with the same result and though it no doubt provided a little fuel to the everlasting RN vs RAF rivalry it would no doubt soon be forgotten. It would also have been laughed at too by the other RAF aircrew on exchange - all the ones I met or heard about were excellent and had a great sense of humour - they even learned to develop thicker skins about this sort of incident.

Is this Pook book that C16 mentions the source for that nugget of information Boac? He sounds a bit like the RAF equivalent to my old shipmate Sharkey Ward. Every service has them - the people who knew that they would have run and won the war much more effectively - and many who weren't present at the time would have believed it all.

[Boac]

but what the hell has he got to do with this incident?

you are conflating two sentences.

Is this Pook book that C16 mentions the source for that nugget of information Boac?

#27?

[FD2]

But what has Middleton to do with this incident from back in the 1960s?

[Boac]

you are conflating two sentences.

[FD2]

What has Middleton to do with the Vixen incident?

[Boac]

...er give the record player a bump, Sir.

[TheGreenGoblin]

I like the cut of Lin Middleton's jib. South African, a descendant of the 1820 settlers...etc. Dale College educated...

A South African being arrogant and aggressive? Never!

Linley Eric Middleton was born in East London, in the Eastern Cape, South Africa, on August 17 1929 into a family which had settled in the early 19th century . After attending Dale College, King William’s Town, he did national service in the South African Army, then transferred to the South African Air Force, with which he learned to fly. In 1952 he joined the Fleet Air Arm.

Over the next 11 years he served in the carriers Indefatigable, Centaur, Bulwark, Eagle, Victorious and Ark Royal, with a brief break in the frigate Mounts Bay to qualify for his bridge watchkeeping ticket.

Middleton displayed great personal bravery during the course of 1956 when, flying Sea Hawk jet fighter-bombers in 897 Naval Air Squadron from Eagle, he almost drowned on three occasions. On July 7 his Sea Hawk suffered an engine failure while in inverted flight over the Mediterranean; he bailed out and was rescued by helicopter.

After commanding Hermes, Middleton was Assistant Chief of Naval Staff (Operations) in 1983–84 and Flag Officer Naval Air Command from 1984 to 1987, when he retired from the Navy and became managing director of Robert Maxwell’s British International Helicopters. He was appointed CB in 1986.

3930048.jpg (81.83 KiB) Viewed 1862 times

Dr Vikki Williams and Tonisha Courtney, guests from the Falklands Islands, in conversation with the former captain of HMS Hermes, Rear Admiral Linley Middleton, after his opening speech for the Falklands 30 exhibition at the Fleet Air Arm Museum, Yeovilton, Somerset

[Undried Plum]

the former captain of HMS Hermes, Rear Admiral Linley Middleton, after his opening speech for the Falklands 30 exhibition at the Fleet Air Arm Museum, Yeovilton, Somerset

Seniority is a right bugger.

[FD2]

Boac - yes it's a bit like the Jeremy Paxman v Michael Howard interview. There was no insult intended to the RAF, as I've already explained, but I think you perceived one and introduced a strawman in the shape of Rear Admiral Middleton, who achieved a certain amount of notoriety in 1982, as a kneejerk response. There was no conflation of anything involved and as I have already stated I had entirely forgotten that the two aircrew were RAF. Has that jumped enough tracks on this record?

[CharlieOneSix]

I think things have got a little confused and heated here and I apologise if my introduction of Middleton has caused that. Initially my reference to Middleton being Captain of Hermes during the Falklands War was in response to Boac's post about the command of Hermes at the time. I drifted into surmising that Middleton's style of command there may have been as fractious as it was when he was MD of BIH and that of course has nothing to do with the Vixen incident.

FD2 - as you say, Sharkey and Pook were of the same mould!

[FD2]

Thanks for sorting that out C16

I'm sure all the services have suffered under abrasive senior officers (with that thread drift). Maybe today there would be a complaint of 'bullying' or something P.C.

Remember Joe Bartosik? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B3zef_Bartosik - a complete tyrant.

[TheGreenGoblin]

Just a little more thread drift. I am currently reading about the behind the scenes shenanigans in the UK services with respect to the proposed adoption of the Skybolt missile with the RAF and the Navy at daggers drawn, with the RAF favouring Skybolt and the Navy enamoured of Polaris. Skybolt was eventually cancelled by the Americans and thus the RAF lost its role as a strategic nuclear strike force and the Navy got Polaris. The amount of mutual distrust between some of the senior officers concerned brought to mind this piece of Month Python... Humans, we are a funny bunch, hard wired to be political at all times, even with our own!