Another Navy Wings article...

[FD2]

The Defence Select Committee have been told that the port shaft on HMS PoW has 'the same problem' as the starboard and is also being 'repaired' at Rosyth. Wrong sort of glue, perhaps?

Yes - wasn't that stated by the admiral during the Committee link posted by 4m? (post #6 in the tread about the illegal state of candidate selection for flying training in the RAF)

[Boac]

I see that now but did not expect to find that in an RAF Flying Training thread...................... Now it is in a Navy thread........ The RN face the Defence Select Committee

[FD2]

But we've all read that already on the other thread about recruitment!

Also this thread is about Navy Wings articles and as far as I know there hasn't been any comment about the POW's shafts from them. There is some thread drift and enlargement on certain posts admittedly, like most the threads on the site.

[G-CPTN]

My grandfather served as a mechanic in the Royal Naval Air Service in WW1.

I have his handwritten 'notebook' with his notes from the lectures which he received, including hand-drawn illustrations of the various contemporary aircraft engines.

Is there any 'archive' that might be interested in receiving this historical document?

[FD2]

I'm certain the FAA Museum at Yeovilton would be interested. https://www.nmrn.org.uk/visit-us/fleet-air-arm-museum or contact Navy Wings https://navywings.org.uk/ who should be able to give you a contact at the Museum for donations. These sort of things are invaluable.

[G-CPTN]

I searched without success for a 'Contact us' link on various Fleet Air Arm websites.

[FD2]

I'll have a go - I'll contact a friend who used to work for Navy Wings and get back to you.

[G-CPTN]

Thanks.

[TheGreenAnger]

Came across this image of a Buccaneer being cast into the briny. Do any of the cognoscenti here know what the story behind this photograph is? I believe the carrier in question HMS Ark Royal.

Buccaneer!.JPG (90.85 KiB) Viewed 2378 times

Ah this may be it!

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/157090

Deliberately dropped into the English Channel off HMS Ark Royal during the making of a Royal Navy safety film about the accidental loss of XT269 (031/R) from Ark Royal 15/2/1972 (which see). The safety training film re-staged the accident, and showed what to do to prevent it happening again

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/156556

Written off 15/2/1972: Rolled over the side of HMS Ark Royal during a storm in mid-Atlantic whilst parked on deck. Sank in deep water and not recovered. What actually happened was the handler took it down aft from the lift in preparation for the morning flying, had NOT either braked it NOR chained it down, disconnected the tow bar... a sea swell out of nowhere & it simply went over the side.I was on watch in 'Y' unit engine room at the time, on late middle watch.

As a result of this incident, Buccaneer S.Mk.1 XN954 (ex-"631/LM" of 736 NAS Royal Navy FAA) was deliberately pushed off the deck of HMS Ark Royal off Plymouth on 14/4/1974 for a safety training film that re-staged the accident, and showed what to do to prevent it happening again

[TheGreenAnger]

[G-CPTN]

Buccaneer S.Mk.1 XN954 (ex-"631/LM" of 736 NAS Royal Navy FAA) was deliberately pushed off the deck of HMS Ark Royal off Plymouth on 14/4/1974 for a safety training film that re-staged the accident, and showed what to do to prevent it happening again

So a Twofer?

Did they really ditch a second aircraft?

[Mrs Ex-Ascot]

Buccaneer S.Mk.1 XN954 (ex-"631/LM" of 736 NAS Royal Navy FAA) was deliberately pushed off the deck of HMS Ark Royal off Plymouth on 14/4/1974 for a safety training film that re-staged the accident, and showed what to do to prevent it happening again

So a Twofer?

Did they really ditch a second aircraft?

No matter, it is a great piccy for a caption competition.

[FD2]

As soon as the Mark 2s had been delivered there was nothing they could do with the Mk 1s except scrap them. There was little commonality - the Gyron Junior engines left it underpowered and were often embarrassingly slow to spool up. The airframes were different to the extent there was little or nothing that could be used from the Mk 1s for the Mk 2s. I don't know if this Mk 1 airframe was flown onboard or taken out on a lighter, but it makes a great photo and thanks for posting it TGA.

As HMQ said, "Recollections may vary." A friend who was in 809 (Buccs) onboard at the time told me the aircraft was chocked and lashed down and was not missed for some time - the only evidence for its 'passing' were some scrape marks on the deck edge and other bits and pieces. The stoker's recollection seems to indicate that the handler knew about it at the time. Of the two the latter seems more plausible so I will ask around.

[TheGreenAnger]

As soon as the Mark 2s had been delivered there was nothing they could do with the Mk 1s except scrap them. There was little commonality - the Gyron Junior engines left it underpowered and were often embarrassingly slow to spool up. The airframes were different to the extent there was little or nothing that could be used from the Mk 1s for the Mk 2s. I don't know if this Mk 1 airframe was flown onboard or taken out on a lighter, but it makes a great photo and thanks for posting it TGA.

As HMQ said, "Recollections may vary." A friend who was in 809 (Buccs) onboard at the time told me the aircraft was chocked and lashed down and was not missed for some time - the only evidence for its 'passing' were some scrape marks on the deck edge and other bits and pieces. The stoker's recollection seems to indicate that the handler knew about it at the time. Of the two the latter seems more plausible so I will ask around.

Thank you for that explanation FD2. Logical as it was at the time, and still is I guess, and all that understood, in retrospect it is still hard for an enthusiast to see such an historically interesting aircraft consigned to Davey Jones' locker.

On the subject of aircraft carriers I have been following up on the original HMS Hermes' (the first purpose built aircraft carrier in the world) links with Cape Town and South Africa with a great deal of interest.

HMS Hermes

She spent some considerable time being refitted in Simon's Town (or Simonstown if you must) and then later Durban, during the Second World War.

This is the 10,850 ton Aircraft Carrier HMS Hermes under fire, ablaze and sinking during World War 2. As Simonstown in South Africa was a British Naval base thousands of South Africans in WW2 served in the Royal Navy as well as in the South African Naval Forces (SANF). The loss of an aircraft carrier the size of the HMS Hermes is bound to include a South African honour roll and unfortunately this one does. Read on for their story.

“Dante’s Inferno”; Recounting South African sacrifice on the HMS Hermes

Hermes 2.JPG (31.62 KiB) Viewed 2328 times

[TheGreenAnger]

And nary a mention of the SAAF (apart from that last shot of the rocket assisted launch)...

[G-CPTN]

I find it difficult to accept that such aircraft are no longer worthy of use.

[FD2]

Me too. Like all great aircraft it looks the part and was superb in its roles, both ground attack or bombing ships from a carrier, or venturing eastwards, with something suitably shiny and white in its bomb bay, in its RN or RAF colours. Not to be forgetting mud moving in SAAF colours.

I think the TSR2 would have come good and been superb in the latter UK role but that's governments for you, reaping the 'peace dividend'.

[Boac]

I find it difficult to accept that such aircraft are no longer worthy of use.

Many years ago I lost a friend (and his nav) who's Bucccaneer wing folded on him at low level on Red Flag. Aircraft get tired and have a 'best before' date.

[TheGreenAnger]

One of my fellow spotty faced Herbert's at 3rd Pinelands Scout troop is the son of Major Munnik who was a Lieutenant in 1965 and one of the South African pilots of 24th Squadron who came to the the UK in 1964/65 to do the conversion training on the Buccaneer S.Mk 50.

SAAF Buccaneer at Hawker Siddeley in 1965


The first 8 aircraft were flown back on a multi-leg sortie to South Africa on 27 October 1965 and sadly the attrition rate started on that journey as one aircraft suffered loss of control and crashed, with the crew successfully ejecting.

The ferry operation was a sophisticated one with Shackleton's and C-130 aircraft staged along the route and thus an effective rescue mission swung into action to rescue the two downed airmen, Captain Jooste and Lieutenant de Klerk.

"Johannesburg - The two man crew of a South African air force Buccaneer bomber being ferried here from Britain were rescued by the 13,694-ton Dutch liner Randfontein yesterday after crashing into the Atlantic the previous night. They kept afloat in rubber lifeboats - AAP - Reuters" ...

1722 was scrambled, and only a couple of hours into the mission picked up the 'blips' from the downed airmen's SARAH beacons. Coloured flares were fired by both the Shackleton crew and the survivors in the Atlantic, to verify visual contact by all concerned.

Another MRJ, 1721, was drafted into what was no longer a search, but a rescue operation and two sets of Lindholme Gear were dropped to the Buccaneer crew.

The Dutch liner Randfontein was in the area and 1722 guided it to the rescue location, where a successful transfer from life raft to luxury was made.

1722, captained by Major Pat Conway, had flown nearly eighteen hours on the AR mission, which had been undertaken as a text-book operation.

As FD2 noted the Buccaneers became mud movers later on and saw effective action in SWA and Angola.

This evocative piece by a SAAF Buccaneer pilot sums up a training sortie...

https://www.thunder-and-lightnings.co.u ... mories.php

[FD2]

Great account of night toss bombing in a Buccaneer Thanks TGA.