Polestar 2 Electric Car - my test drive and assessment

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CharlieOneSix
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Polestar 2 Electric Car - my test drive and assessment

#1 Post by CharlieOneSix » Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:55 pm

Undried Plum wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:22 pm
CharlieOneSix wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:57 am
Wo-hoo! Just booked a 90 minute walk-round presentation and test drive of the all electric Polestar 2 in Aberdeen on Sunday afternoon.......
I'll be interested to read your appraisal.
Here’s a short assessment of the Polestar electric powered car after my 90 minutes with it today. Half of that time was a 45 minute drive – on our own, not accompanied by a Polestar rep – in a four car convoy of Polestars around Aberdeenshire on a variety of roads from dual carriageways to single track country roads and a short part of it was town driving. There should have been 8 Polestars available but they couldn’t find an HGV driver for a car transporter so four were driven to Aberdeen.
polestar 2.jpg
The car I drove after a comprehensive briefing was the version with two electric motors and included the Plus and Pilot options. The book says 0-60mph in 4 seconds and I can vouch for that and, although I warned her I was going to slam accelerate, Mrs C16 said it scared the hell out of her and rammed her head back into the headrest! My overall impression of the car was Wow, just Wow!

A “weight on driver seat” switch turns on the instrumentation. A stubby drive selector with D N and R options is moved to D and with application of throttle the car moves off silently. There are three options for regenerative braking – Off, Low and Standard. It takes a moment or two to get used to the Standard setting but during the whole 45 minutes I only applied the footbrake once when someone pulled unexpectedly out of a side turning. With your foot completely off the accelerator pedal the car comes to a smooth but positive stop. There is no handbrake, nor hill assist function – the car just sits there. I tried the Low regenerative braking function at one point and it was just like driving a normal automatic car with hardly any braking function. I soon reverted to Standard setting.

Apparently the brake lights only come on during regenerative braking when a nominal ‘g’ deceleration is sensed. I think I was told this was 0.3 ‘g’ but don’t quote me. I drive an automatic so I was used to the two pedal layout. I was no. 4 in the convoy and the driver in the Polestar in front of me kept blipping the brake lights. I spoke to him afterwards and he said he was used to manual gear changes and had a few problems getting used to a two pedal layout. Watching the professional driver’s car at the head of the convoy it was quite obvious that his brake lights only came on with a significant deceleration.

Road holding was superb – the roads were dry and I threw the car hard into some sharp bends and there was no body roll. The suspension was firm but it was not uncomfortable going over rough road surfaces.

Control of onboard systems such as navigation, radio , phone etc was all done with the “Hey Google” voice preamble to whatever function you desired. The fixed tablet display – it’s 11” tall – was superb with the Nav display repeated in front of the driver under what in a normal car would be the instrument binnacle.
polestar1.JPG
On the final stop, P was selected by means of a push button. No handbrake remember! Boot space is good and charging cables are kept in the ‘frunk’ where an engine would be in a normal car. There is no spare wheel.

Criticisms? A few. My left leg was hard against the central console, maybe I’m too used to the spaciousness of my A6. For me the angular opening of the rear doors was too narrow. As a result I found it extremely difficult to get in and out of the rear seats. I thought that was possibly due to being 6ft tall plus my painful knees but Mrs C16 is 5’4” tall and she hit her head on the top of the door opening when she got in. In my view legroom is poor in the back and not as I expected but again, I’m used to the A6. Headlamp washers seemed to have been deleted from the spec for basic cars but I was unable to get an answer about their inclusion in either the Pilot or Plus options. They are not listed there. That’s a question for Polestar support tomorrow. Final criticism – leather fronted seats with a cooled function are a £4000 option!!! Not for me.

Battery warranty is 8 years with a guaranteed 80% of new capacity at that point. The car has a 3 year warranty, 3 years automotive assistance, 3 years internet connection and 3 years servicing. Servicing is every two years or 20,000 miles and I was told that mainly consists of a pollen filter change, checkup of battery cooling fluid and a check up of steering bushes etc. This is a heavy car at 2123kg (4680lbs) kerb weight.
Will I buy one? Yes, but not for about a year. I will go for the single motor version (0-60 in 7 seconds) and the Pilot and Plus options. It’s not a cheap car – my version would be £49,900 though a replacement new Audi A6 Allroad is now £57,430.
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Re: Polestar 2 Electric Car - my test drive and assessment

#2 Post by Pontius Navigator » Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:07 am

What about typical battery range and charge times? What did you use in your drive?

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Re: Polestar 2 Electric Car - my test drive and assessment

#3 Post by CharlieOneSix » Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:40 am

I have no idea how much battery we used in the test drive. I suppose we must have done around 30-35 miles but there are so many bells and whistles and stuff available behind the main information screen page I would have to sit down with the manual to find out about everything. At this stage I was more concerned with handling, performance and comfort. The official WLTP figures - which of course don't reflect the real world - are:

Standard range single motor: 273 miles
Long range single motor: 335 miles - this is the version I would buy.
Long range dual motor: 298 miles

Re charge times, a 40 minute charge at a 150kw fast charging station should charge the battery to 80% from empty. A 50kw charger would take about 1hr20 min. A home 7kw charger would take approximately 9hrs40min to charge from empty to 80%. In my case, with a smart charger I would take advantage of the Octopus Energy reduced electricity cost between 0030 and 0430 of 5p/kWh instead of an average day time rate of 14p/kWh. At the 14p/kWh rate a full charge to 100% should cost around £8.40.

The 50kW charger at the Bannatyne Health Club where Polestar were based yesterday charged 40p/kWh - very expensive! I think 35p/kWh is more representative of 'on the road' chargers. UP would know - although in all probability he gets free 'on the road' charging though the dedicated Tesla charge points.
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Re: Polestar 2 Electric Car - my test drive and assessment

#4 Post by Pontius Navigator » Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:51 am

A clear case of plan ahead 😁

I wonder if they market snatch plugs as we used to have for QRA, both cars and aircraft.

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Re: Polestar 2 Electric Car - my test drive and assessment

#5 Post by CharlieOneSix » Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:55 pm

CharlieOneSix wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:55 pm
.............Headlight washers seemed to have been deleted from the spec for basic cars but I was unable to get an answer about their inclusion in either the Pilot or Plus options. They are not listed there. That’s a question for Polestar support tomorrow..............
Polestar Support just confirmed that headlight washers do not now feature in any new Polestar 2 cars.
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Re: Polestar 2 Electric Car - my test drive and assessment

#6 Post by PHXPhlyer » Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:21 pm

Not a deal breaker, I hope.

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Re: Polestar 2 Electric Car - my test drive and assessment

#7 Post by CharlieOneSix » Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:16 pm

No, but I find it odd that they have removed it.
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Re: Polestar 2 Electric Car - my test drive and assessment

#8 Post by PHXPhlyer » Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:23 pm

Oh the horror of having to wash your headlights manually! :(( =))
Wait. Have the chauffeur do it. :))

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Re: Polestar 2 Electric Car - my test drive and assessment

#9 Post by Undried Plum » Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:29 pm

An interesting appraisal, just as I expected.

For range/charging data on a reasonably long haul trip I used my favourite route planning package for non-Teslas to work out a reasonably indicative long drive plan with a single motor Polestar 2. I used the expected wx and traffic conditions for a departure tomorrow at 07:00BST from a rural Aberdeenshire locus to the Chunnel.

10¼ hrs, including 3 charging stops totaling 1¼hrs. Comfortably doable, if it wasn't for the damned leg-squeeze by the centre console and a sweaty back and arse from the non-breathable fabric of the synthetic material seat-coverings.


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Re: Polestar 2 Electric Car - my test drive and assessment

#10 Post by PHXPhlyer » Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:00 am

This is more my style but still a little spendy.

Rivian is no Tesla. That's exactly what these buyers want


https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/26/cars/riv ... index.html

Washington, DC (CNN)Today Tesla dominates the world of electric vehicles, selling about two of every three EVs sold in the US. It's worth more than twice as much as any other automaker. Teslas are a status symbol and its CEO, Elon Musk, is a celebrity, with 59 million more Twitter followers than the next most popular automotive CEO.

But there's a portion of the market that wants an electric car and is specifically turned off by Tesla's lineup, its CEO, and in some cases, both. That could prove to be a boon for one of its rivals.
CNN Business interviewed 12 drivers who have pre-orders with Rivian, the US automaker focused on electric trucks and SUVs that's expected to go public later this year. They say a key part of Rivian's appeal is how different it is from Tesla.
The vehicles are a better fit for an outdoorsy lifestyle, and they look more conventional, with squared-off styling and a rugged appearance, they say. Many Rivian enthusiasts said they soured on Musk, especially his tweets, and found themselves identifying more with Rivian's low-profile CEO, RJ Scaringe. Some said Rivian's environmental focus seemed more sincere, and its mission more focused on people than Tesla and Musk.
"I really don't like jerk CEOs. It puts me off from the product," said Carter Gibson, who off-roads and snowboards in California, and has ordered a Rivian to replace his Toyota 4Runner.
Some electric vehicle enthusiasts say their views of Musk have changed over the years. They point to the time when Musk called a rescue worker in Thailand a "pedo guy," as well as his comments about Tesla's stock price that have drawn Securities and Exchange Commission scrutiny and a reprimand. (Musk has mocked the SEC, too.)
"Sometimes Musk can come across as a Bond villain or something, RJ does not give me those vibes," said Stephen Henken of Montgomery, Alabama, who drives a Prius today and has ordered a Rivian R1S.
Scaringe, who has a PhD in mechanical engineering from MIT, founded Rivian in 2009, and in the following 12 years the company has diligently set about turning itself into a real, full-fledged automaker before ever selling a single car.
The company purchased a former Mitsubishi manufacturing plant in Bloomington-Normal, Illinois, in 2017. Rivian has raised $10.5 billion since 2019, including from tech and automotive titans Amazon and Ford, respectively, and has a deal with Amazon for 100,000 delivery trucks.
But Rivian's success is not guaranteed. It's too young to have built brand loyalty or a nationwide network to service its vehicles. It will have to prove, too, that it can mass produce vehicles at a profit, a challenge Tesla has already survived, though not without hiccups.
Tesla did not respond to a request for comment and generally does not engage with the professional news media.
A true electric truck
Matt Thomson, a Denver real estate agent, says he spends up to $700 a month on gas for his GMC Sierra, taking clients to view homes or towing his horses. He said he's grown tired of needing an oil change every other month.
Thomson says he's not generally a risk-taker, or an early adopter. But he's placed a pre-order for Rivian's pickup truck, the R1T, and his wife has a pre-order for the company's SUV, the R1S.
Thomson said he's waited eight years for someone to make a truck like Rivian's. He felt Tesla's vehicles weren't a good fit. Tesla' Model X can tow only 5,000 pounds, and Thomson isn't interested in the distinct, boxy stylings and sharp lines of Tesla's Cybertruck, which has been both praised and the butt of jokes.
"When we pull into a horse show now you've got [Ford] F-150s, you've got GMC Sierras, [Chevy] Silverados and that's it," Thomson said. "You just kind of want to blend in."

Andy Crews, who lives in the San Francisco Bay Area, said he's always loved his dad's pickup, but felt guilty about it getting just 12 miles per gallon. He hikes or runs every day on trails, and has been waiting for an electric pick-up, he said. Crews said he loves Tesla and has owned a Model S since 2013, but doesn't want a Cybertruck.
"It's built out of freaking steel," Crews said, "but it looks ugly."
"It's probably actually a very practical vehicle, if there's an apocalypse," he added.
Rivian, on the other hand, sells itself as an earthy, adventure-focused company. Scaringe has said that the company's mission is to "inspire people to do more of the things they love, while minimizing our impact on the planet."
Rivian's paint colors have names like glacier white, forest green and compass yellow. The company offers an option to purchase a tent that mounts atop its vehicles, and it sells specific mounts for bikes, snowboards, skis, kayaks and surfboards. Traditional automakers like Ford, GM and Subaru offer similar attachments; Tesla does not.
The new Normal: How one Midwestern town got swept up in the electric vehicle boom
The new Normal: How one Midwestern town got swept up in the electric vehicle boom
"Rivian has thought more than Tesla about who is going to be driving it, what they're going to be feeling when they're driving it and what they're going to be doing," said Ryan Michael McCarthy, who describes himself as not a pick-up truck guy. He wants Rivian's truck because it seems so functional: it has a $5,000 option for a small kitchen that pulls out of the side of the vehicle, complete with a stove, sink and utensils.
McCarthy, who lives outside Chicago, said that watching Rivian's videos, like employees testing the vehicles in minus-40 degrees, attracted him.
"They feel like a family," McCarthy said. "You feel like you want to be a part of them and their culture."
New Jersey resident Matt Bowen, who describes himself as a "jaded millennial," said it's rare to see a company that he feels cares as much about its customers as the product itself. He was impressed with the gifts Rivian had sent some future customers, including a welcome package for a puppy, and its environmental and community partnerships.
"It's an all-around mission and I like that," said Bowen, a father who lives on a farm and has pre-ordered a Rivian SUV. "We're glad there's an alternative to the Model X that suits more of our needs, and I think will fit in better with our lifestyle and our philosophy."

Crews said that he felt Rivian was trying especially hard to fight global warming. He pointed to Rivian's pledge that its exclusive charging network for its vehicles will be powered by 100% renewable energy.
Tesla has said several times since 2012 that its Supercharger network will be powered only by renewables. A Tesla employee reportedly said this past April that the network would become all renewables by year's end. (The employee's statement on LinkedIn is no longer available.)
Overpromising and under-delivering?
Renewable energy is one of several cases where Rivian pre-holders felt that Tesla had overpromised and under-delivered. Another example they cited was Tesla's Autopilot and "full self-driving" technology, which has been delayed repeatedly.
Of course, there's a risk that Rivian itself will overpromise and under-deliver. It has delayed delivery of its vehicles before, and the road to full-rate production may inevitably come with its own challenges.
David Kirsch, a professor at the University of Maryland's business school, said Rivian's team, product and investors all look promising, but there are no guarantees it will meet expectations. Rivian is the first to market with a modern electric pick-up, but it remains to be seen exactly how much demand there are for electric pick-ups.
Rivian will also have to prove that it can mass produce vehicles at a profit. There are always uncertainties for new automakers when moving from batch production to mass production. Costs could increase, which could cut into Rivian's profits, or totally wipe them out.
"Rivian is being priced as if it's already crossed the production hell chasm," Kirsch said of reports Rivian is being valued as much as Ford or GM. "It might take a lot more time or money, or they might run out of time and money."
Provided Rivian can manufacture at scale, it will also have to show that it can adequately support and service its trucks after sale, something Tesla has struggled with at times.
"You see concept images of a car, you get excited. You see a facility to build it, you get excited. You see production versions and get more excited," said Karl Brauer, executive analyst at iSeeCars.com. "But none of that means anything once the person buys the car."

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Re: Polestar 2 Electric Car - my test drive and assessment

#11 Post by PHXPhlyer » Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:11 pm

This one looks promising.
Much to my liking.
Bonus: It is being built in proximity to me.

First Images Of Atlis XT Electric Pickup Prototype Revealed


https://gmauthority.com/blog/2021/09/fi ... led-video/

https://www.atlismotorvehicles.com/

Arizona-based electric-vehicle startup Atlis Motor Vehicles has revealed the first images of its new Atlis XT all-electric work truck. When it debuts, the Atlis XT electric pickup will rival the upcoming Chevy Silverado EV.

The specs for the upcoming Atlis XT include a claimed 500 miles of range and recharge time in less than 15 minutes. Atlis is also developing 400-mile and 300-mile configurations.

Designed for work environments and towing, the Atlis XT features an exterior design that emphasizes, practicality, aerodynamic performance, and visibility. Available storage includes a front trunk, while the bed in back gets a spray-on bed liner and 18.5 cubic feet of space. The Atlis XT is offered with both 6.5-foot and 8-foot bed lengths.

Practicality is also enhanced with two 110-volt outlets, a 240-volt outlet, an air compressor, and several USB-C charging ports. Active headlights up front include four daytime running lights that double as turn signals, and can be programmed to emit different colors depending on the application (such as red for an emergency vehicle). Digital mirrors are used for enhanced visibility around the vehicle.

The vehicle step-ups are integrated directly with the platform of the vehicle, while air spring suspension keeps it shiny side up.

The interior spec offers both three-passenger and six-passenger seating layouts. Front and rear center consoles, a locking storage area, three cupholders, and two wireless phone chargers are on board, while a digital dashboard keeps tabs on the vitals. A 12.8-inch central touchscreen is equipped for infotainment duties. Apple CarPlay and Android Auto integration is also included.

The Atlis XT will have a variety of customization options on tap, including up-fit options like a service body or flatbed, as well as configurations for tradespeople, small businesses, and fleet owners.

“We are out to change the work truck market. The goal is to create an electric pickup with the performance characteristics of a ¾-ton diesel that can quickly be recharged,” said Atlis founder and CEO, Mark Hanchett. “We’ve focused on the design features our target market cares most about – maximizing functionality, storage, capability, and passenger comfort to create the best possible ownership experience.”


Atlis says production will ramp up late in 2022.

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Re: Polestar 2 Electric Car - my test drive and assessment

#12 Post by Undried Plum » Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:08 pm

I think that the greatest achievement of Musk/Tesla is that that there are now so many car-making companies who are doing a good job of trying to catch up.

Sir Christopher Wren's epitaph is well-engraved in St Paul's: Si Monumentum Ruquiris, Circumspice.

It's a thoroughly healthy aspect of capitalism that a market leader has so many followers who are trying to catch up and to beat the leader.

Bring 'em on!

Next year my car will be into its seventh year of its planned ownership of m'self. It had an eight year Warranty and I initially put what I thought would be eight years worth of money into shares of TSLA to fund its replacement for what is likely to be be my last car other than the grim 10 mph well-glaziered box-carrying black one. I planned to own my Model S for seven years and then move on.

Next year I shall start taking a serious look at what my next car will be.

If Volvo move that damned centre consol over a bit, or shrink it, and if they put in non-sweaty breathable seats, I shall take a good hard look at the Polaris.

It'll be nice when Tesla is the one playing ketchup. I hope they'll do well, although I recognise that VHS beat Betamax on marketing, not technical, points. Tesla has never spent a penny on paid-for advertising and has thus made serious enemies of the mainstream media. They **** hate Tesla for that reason.

When I bought my Tesla it was a one-pony race for my money. Next year will be so different.

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Re: Polestar 2 Electric Car - my test drive and assessment

#13 Post by PHXPhlyer » Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:32 am

Sorry UP.
Your car it too old and in the wrong part of the world. :-o [-X
And if it weren't, would your driving qualify you? :-?

Tesla's 'full self-driving' could be days away. Here's what you need to know.


https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/28/cars/tes ... index.html

Washington, DC (CNN)A wider group of Tesla owners who paid up to $10,000 for what the company calls its "full self-driving" software can now ask the automaker for access to a test version of the feature. But they'll first have to show that they're a sufficiently safe driver by allowing Tesla to analyze data on their driving behavior.

Approved drivers may then get access to "full self-driving" beta software as soon as Oct. 9, according to a tweet from Tesla CEO Elon Musk.
A small group of private citizens, no more than a few thousand at most, have already been testing the system for nearly a year, and the videos they've posted on social media of Teslas attempting to drive themselves through traffic have received both cautious praise and derision. Tesla has not released information on exactly how many drivers, who they were, or how they were selected to be in the first "full self-driving" public beta test. Tesla has been criticized for not getting consent from the pedestrians, cyclists and other drivers who share the street with the cars testing "full self-driving."
Tesla did not respond to a request for comment and generally does not engage with the professional news media.
Tesla drivers will have to make a privacy trade. Drivers who want early access to the technology must agree to allow Tesla to collect data on their driving style, and judge it.
Here's a rundown of common questions about the technology:
What is "full self-driving?"
Tesla claimed in 2016 that all of its new vehicles had the hardware capability for "full self-driving" and that it would soon offer the complementary software to make the cars drive themselves.
Musk has said that he thinks people will be able to fall asleep in Teslas as they drive. He's spoken of a future that includes a million robotaxis and Teslas driving themselves across the country.
But the available version of "full self-driving" is a far cry from those ambitious claims and it requires drivers to remain vigilant. Drivers who have used early versions of "full self-driving" have had to intervene to prevent their cars from crashing into things or driving on the wrong side of the road. Sometimes the drivers have praised the technology, other times they criticize it as no better than a drunk driver. Many have said the technology appears to be generally improving over time. Even so, "full self-driving" may handle a situation perfectly, but then fail the next time it faces the same situation.
Tesla is rolling out access to "full self-driving" as its customers have grown frustrated and tired of waiting years for the technology. Some are increasingly skeptical of Musk's claims.
Even Tesla has drivers signing up for the technology acknowledge that "FSD Beta does not make my car autonomous."
Most autonomous vehicle experts believe that full self-driving means a car in which a person could safely fall asleep behind the wheel, and no attentive human driver is needed. Regulators have repeatedly criticized Tesla's use of the term "full self-driving."
So far their actions have been more bark than bite. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has said repeatedly in statements that there are no vehicles available for sale that can drive themselves. But driver-assist systems like Autopilot and "full self-driving" are not currently regulated, so Tesla and other automakers can deploy whatever driver-assist technology they want. There are signals this may change.
NHTSA has launched an investigation into Teslas on Autopilot rear-ending emergency vehicles stopped in the roadway. The administration has also requested extensive data from automakers on their driver-assist system, and the tough talk has continued.
"Tesla is putting untrained drivers on public roads as testers for their misleadingly-named, unproven system—a seeming recipe for disaster," U.S. Senator Richard Blumenthal (D-CT.) said Sunday. "Serious safety concerns should put this reckless plan in reverse. It's Russian Roulette for unsuspecting drivers & the public."
Blumenthal has called for the Federal Trade Commission to investigate Tesla's autonomous driving features, and cheered the NHTSA investigation.
How is Tesla deciding what drivers will get access to "full self-driving?"
Tesla announced Saturday a "safety score," which it says will estimate the likelihood that a driver could be in a collision. The safety score will track hard braking, aggressive turning, tailgating, forward collision warnings and Autopilot disengagements, according to Tesla. (Autopilot generally refers to Tesla's more rudimentary suite of driver assist features like traffic-aware cruise control.)
Musk has said that drivers will be granted access to the "full self-driving" beta if their driving is "good" for seven days.
People who have shared Tesla safety scores on social media so far have offered a range of reviews. Many welcomed and embraced the scores. Some have expressed surprise at how high their score was given their driving style, while others have said the score seemed lower than expected. Some have described driving in a way that games the system to improve their score, but isn't actually typical behavior of a safe driver.
One Tesla owner said he had achieved a score of 95 out of 100 after running yellow lights, not braking for a cyclist, and rolling through stop signs.
Musk has said that the safety score "will evolve over time to more accurately predict crash probability."
Not everyone gets access yet
Tesla owners who have an older version of Tesla's touchscreen computer in their vehicles have described on social media and to CNN Business that they do not have the chance to sign up for "full self-driving."
Tesla owners with early model vehicles, before the "full self-driving" hardware update in 2016, also generally can not get access. Tesla owners outside the United States have also described on social media not having access to request "full self-driving."
It is unclear, however, how many in total may or may not receive the option to request access to the "full self-driving" beta software. Tesla does not release information on how many drivers have purchased the option, nor has it released information on precisely when, how, or how many drivers will be able to oversee their car attempting to drive itself.

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Re: Polestar 2 Electric Car - my test drive and assessment

#14 Post by PHXPhlyer » Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:54 am

Another EV being manufactured near me (60 miles)

Lucid Motors starts production at new plant in Casa Grande


https://www.12news.com/article/money/bu ... a186c3a4ee
https://lucidmotors.com/

Lucid Motors starts production at new plant in Casa Grande
Lucid's electric sedans started rolling off the assembly line this week at a new manufacturing plant in Pinal County that's estimated to generate 6,000 jobs.

CASA GRANDE, Ariz. — Nearly five years after announcing it was building a manufacturing plant in central Arizona, Lucid Motors has officially started production at its completed facility in Casa Grande.

The company's electric-powered sedans began rolling off the assembly line this week at a production facility that's expected to create 6,000 new jobs.

Lucid, a perceived electric-car rival of Tesla, expects to expand its production facility in the coming years. The company's plant will produce the Lucid Air Dream Edition models, which can drive more than 500 miles on a single charge.

"Our technology will allow for increasingly lighter, more efficient, and less expensive (electric vehicles), and today represents a major step in our journey to expand the accessibility of more sustainable transportation,” said Peter Rawlinson, CEO of Lucid Group.

Gov. Doug Ducey visited Casa Grande on Tuesday to celebrate the positive economic impact Lucid's plant is expected to yield in Arizona.

“Lucid’s ongoing investment in Arizona represents an investment in good jobs and livelihoods for Arizonans now and in the future," the governor said.

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Re: Polestar 2 Electric Car - my test drive and assessment

#15 Post by Undried Plum » Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:55 am

PHXPhlyer wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:54 am
Lucid, a perceived electric-car rival of Tesla
Dream on.

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Re: Polestar 2 Electric Car - my test drive and assessment

#16 Post by PHXPhlyer » Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:35 am

This electric car can go 520 miles on a charge but the CEO says that's not important

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/03/business ... index.html

(CNN)The Lucid Air Dream Edition was recently rated by the Environmental Protection Agency with an estimated driving range of 520 miles on a full charge. That's the longest range of any purely battery-powered car yet rated by the EPA, including Tesla's Model S Long Range.

It's not just a little longer, either. The Air goes an estimated 115 miles farther on a charge than the Tesla. It's even farther than most gasoline cars can travel on a full tank.
But Lucid's chief executive Peter Rawlinson, who once worked at Tesla and helped engineer the original Model S, thinks that jaw-dropping number, 520 miles, isn't actually terribly important. For one thing, that range doesn't come cheap. Prices for the Lucid Air sedan start at $74,000, but prices for the Dream Edition are more than double that, starting at $169,000.
The Lucid Air Grand Touring can't travel quite as far on a single charge as the Dream Edition but it is actually slghtly more energy efficient.
The Lucid Air Grand Touring can't travel quite as far on a single charge as the Dream Edition but it is actually slghtly more energy efficient.
Behind that figure, though, is another rarely discussed statistic that Rawlinson thinks will decide the winners and losers in the future world of electric cars: efficiency.
With greater energy efficiency, which contributes to the Lucid Air's long range, electric cars will become accessible at all price ranges, he said. In fact, one of Rawlinson's side projects is applying some of the efficiency tricks used at Lucid to something he calls the "T21," meaning "the Model T for the 21st century." This would be a car with fairly long driving range that almost anyone can afford.
"The Model T Ford really mobilized mankind in the last century, the 20th century," Rawlinson said. "Ultimately, it had a devastating impact upon the planet. We have got this generation of engineers and technologists and designers. It is within our grasp to try to redress the damage that mankind has caused."
Lucid, a California-based company, recently started production of the Air electric sedan at its Arizona factory.
Some of the same sorts of techniques used to design expensive cars with very long range can help do that, Rawlinson said, can be applied to cheap cars that will drive shorter distances that remain practical for most people.
The balancing act
Like huge horsepower numbers on performance cars, long range on electric cars will be something people can brag about, but that will have little practical use in real life, Rawlinson said. After all, most electric vehicle owners will charge overnight at home or at work and, when they take long trips, public chargers will be available at intervals of much less than 500 miles.
And the trick to getting longer range figures isn't particularly hard with current technology, Rawlinson said. When it comes to getting long range, or just useful range, the easiest way to do it is to just pack in more batteries.
"I call that dumb running," said Rawlinson. "That is not tech."
The biggest problem with that method is that batteries are expensive and, even as battery prices come down, they still won't exactly be cheap. Secondly, batteries add a lot of weight, and take up space which means longer range vehicles will tend to be bigger and heavier or have less room inside. The upcoming GMC Hummer EV, for example, tops out at over 9,000 pounds.
Increasing efficiency is a way to break that connection.
"If I could get 20% more efficiency, I can go 20% further for a given amount of energy," Rawlinson said. "The corollary of that is that, conversely I could go the same distance with 20% less battery."
For the T21 car project, Rawlinson envisions a battery pack weighing about 275 pounds that would take the compact car about 150 miles. That's a lot less driving distance per charge than Lucid's offerings, but it would cost much less, too.
Automakers have been working to increase the efficiency of automobiles for decades regardless of what powers them. Given how important driving range is to consumers, most automakers focus heavily on the energy efficiency of their electric cars. But few have been able to beat the energy efficiency of Rawinson's old employer, Tesla. Lucid seems to be an exception.
An easy way to compare the efficiency of electric cars is to use the EPA's FuelEconomy.gov website just as you would to see the efficiency of a gasoline-powered car. The website will show you the MPGe, or miles per gallon equivalent, of any electric car sold in the US. That's a measure of how far a vehicle will go on an amount of electricity equivalent to the energy in a gallon of gasoline.
The 520 mile version of the Lucid Air, the Air Dream R, has an MPGe of 125. Surprisingly, it is not the most efficient version of the Lucid Air. The Lucid Air Grand Touring has a range of just 516 miles, but it has an MPGe of 131.
The Tesla Model S Long Range, while very impressive in its efficiency, is still just a bit more energy hungry than the Lucid Air. The Porsche Taycan Turbo, on the other hand, is much less efficient. It has an MPGe of just 73.
Tesla did not respond to a request for comment on the efficiency gap.
Porsche spokesperson Calvin Kim pointed out that, just as with Porsche's gasoline-powered cars, the emphasis is on overall performance, not maximum efficiency. Also, he said, Taycan owners regularly report longer driving ranges (indicating better efficiency) than official EPA tests show.
The factors that contribute to an electric car's efficiency include many of the same ones that impact the fuel efficiency of gasoline-powered vehicles. Weight and aerodynamics are very important. as are the tires. The Lucid Air has low-rolling-resistance tires specially developed by Pirelli for Lucid.
Lucid also developed its own compact electric motors that, the company claims, are the world's most energy efficient. Also, the cars use a 900 volt electrical system, which is higher than the already high-powered 800 volt system used in the Porsche Taycan. Higher voltage allows electricity to flow more easily through wires, so a vehicle can use use more power without needing thicker, heavier cables.
Making it a business
Lucid will not make the T21, Rawlison said, because it's a luxury car brand and the T21 would be anything but a luxury model. Rawlinson is more interested in having other automakers license the tech behind the T21. He doesn't make it sound terribly appealing, though.
"I doubt my shareholders would want me to do it, because it is a horrible business model," he said. "You do the T21 project, it is like high volume, low margin."
Another company might want to use the technology, though, he said. Plenty of automotive manufacturers are in the high-volume, low-margin business, manufacturing a greater quantity of inexpensive cars rather than just a few luxury vehicles. Maybe one that's fallen behind on the shift towards electric cars could use help to enter the market quickly with advanced technology.
Meanwhile, Lucid has begun working on its own competitors to the Tesla Model 3 and Model Y, which Rawlinson calls Platform 2. Those vehicles will cost about $45,000. More cost savings are possible, he said.
"I tell you, we will be able to get to a $20,000 car," he said.

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Re: Polestar 2 Electric Car - my test drive and assessment

#17 Post by OFSO » Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:21 pm

It's even farther than most gasoline cars can travel on a full tank.

Big inefficient American cars perhaps, but as ever, Americans don't know that the rest of the world and their low car fuel consumption exists.

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Re: Polestar 2 Electric Car - my test drive and assessment

#18 Post by G-CPTN » Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:26 pm

My diesel car fuel tank capacity is 11.4 gallons - average consumption 50 mpg.

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Re: Polestar 2 Electric Car - my test drive and assessment

#19 Post by PHXPhlyer » Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:10 pm

OFSO wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:21 pm
It's even farther than most gasoline cars can travel on a full tank.

Big inefficient American cars perhaps, but as ever, Americans don't know that the rest of the world and their low car fuel consumption exists.
Unfortunately, my small European car is inefficient. :-o :((
BMW X3 only gets 22 MPG allaround driving; somewhat more on highways.
Highway driving on Interstates where speed limits are 75 MPH produces less MPG as 75 is only a suggestion to most drivers.
80-90 MPH is more like it. :-o
My MPG starts going down over ~77.

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Re: Polestar 2 Electric Car - my test drive and assessment

#20 Post by OFSO » Thu Oct 07, 2021 5:59 am

My diesel, large estate, also 50mpg, gets 1100kms on a full tank. Just over 600 miles. Mixed use. Far lower consumption cruising at 50mph on motorways.

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