UK phones going digital

[jimtherev]

As we are discovering, copper telephone connections in the UK are being phased out, and we soon will have to "go digital". This will happen to business phones sooner than domestic and so a rep called today who presented two options. I gather that we are being offered either a fibre connection tot he premises or a total cloud-based system.
As far as I can make out, the second option is indistinguishable in use from yer standard mobile phone, except that any of the church officers would be able to answer "the church line" from anywhere in the world. (I wondered what these twin-sim phones are about.)
The other option is a purely building-based phone system indistinguishable in this case from the landline & pbx and extensions which we have now.)
(I think that's what the guy offered - he may have fancied himself as a salesman, but his technical skill seemed to be lacking.) So,
a) did I get that right?
b) anyone any experience of the 'new' system yet?
c) is it just VOIP technology in a party dress?

[Boac]

a) See d)
b) VOIP, yes
c) Yes

d) It will depend on fibre being run to your premise/s and a fibre-based broadband contract. Do you have or expect that? You can have a VOIP connection on copper (the 'old' telephone system) right now, but the 'Grand BoJo Plan' is to phase out copper by 2030 (I think) FORCING everyone to 'go fibre'.

What are the comparative prices? I have used a VOIP provider - Sipgate - for years, on copper - very successfully and cheaply. If option 2 is cheaper and you do not need access (incoming and outgoing) outside your premise/s, probably go 2.

Why did salesman call and from which company? Happy to continue by PM if you wish.

[unifoxos]

Concur about the VOIP, I'm on Sipgate too, £10 a month for all UK calls, landline and mobile, and the sound quality is fine. I have FTTC here (Fibre To The Cabinet - the green box at the end of the street, copper to the house) and a VOIP to PBX adaptor so that it just looks like just another line to the extensions. The PBX is set to give the VOIP line priority over the landline for outgoing calls.

A cloud-based system could operate via mobiles, using the existing networks, as you surmise, but it could operate via wifi, limiting it to your premises, using either standard smartphones or wifi VOIP phones.

[CharlieOneSix]

After 3 days without a mobile phone signal or electricity we are going to have to reconsider our decision a couple of years ago to rely on mobile phones and do away with the landline when we changed from 1.5mb/sec internet to 30Mb/sec wireless internet. Mrs C16 is concerned that if one of us had been ill or the house was on fire there would have not been any way of contacting emergency services - our nearest neighbours are several hundred yards away and she says she can't do CPR and run for help!! As for FTTC there are no cabinets on our line - it's copper direct to the exchange some 4 miles away. Sort that one Boris!

[unifoxos]

Legal requirement here as part of BT contract to have one phone on the line that does not require any electricity to work. Common sense IMHO. Gang of us once rented a house in Scotland, very remote, 2 miles up winding drive, two phones in property, both cordless, no mobile service. When the power went off we couldn't ring anyone about it. Fortunately nobody fell ill during the power cut.

[Boac]

Sort that one Boris!

It is a major issue. It needs the UK population to DEMAND a solution. Even if you have a mobile signal (remember you will have to have a so-called 'smart phone' by 2030 to access it) you will not be able to re-charge your mobile with the mains off.

The 'UPS' option is of no use, since it will only run for hours and not days. A generator is the only 'current' solution, or perhaps there will be some sort of practical and workable solar battery top-up system made available.

[CharlieOneSix]

....... you will not be able to re-charge your mobile with the mains off.

I have a NOCO Boost Plus 12v lithium boost charger which, as well as pushing out 1000 amps to jumpstart a 6 cylinder diesel car, has a USB outlet to recharge mobile phones. It came in very useful once we got a signal back but were still without electricity during Storm Corrie. We do have an old generator which I must get going again and of course we could have charged the phones with the car idling as a last resort.

NOCO.JPG (69.66 KiB) Viewed 783 times

[Boac]

That's humungeous!

[jimtherev]

Thanks all, so far.
Have been waiting for the rep to send a quote.

Sorry, BOAC, thought I'd said, the guy is from BT. Having promised a quote for Wed, he eventually sent an email this afternoon, which has all the hallmarks of a Friday afternoon job:
- offers only the cloud-based option; the fact that we have an un-used FTTP connection in the plant room was ignored.
- ignored our requirement for a telephone connection to the lift
- made no mention of an internet connection
- quoted £77 pcm. (WHAT!!!!?)

He doesn't stand much chance at the minute.
Not heard of Sipgate - will lookum up.

[llondel]

The advantage of switching to fibre is that it's not as valuable as copper and is less likely to be stolen.

[Boac]

'Tis said by the duty conspiracy theorists that a major driver in the plan to 'get rid of ' the old telephone system is that BT can then sell all the copper they can recover from the soil.

Jim - you talk of an 'FTTP connection ('unused')?? That sounds odd! Do you mean you have had fibre run to the property (that would have been quite expensive!) but you don't use it? What is your connection/speed to the internet at the moment?

[jimtherev]

'Tis said by the duty conspiracy theorists that a major driver in the plan to 'get rid of ' the old telephone system is that BT can then sell all the copper they can recover from the soil.

Jim - you talk of an 'FTTP connection ('unused')?? That sounds odd! Do you mean you have had fibre run to the property (that would have been quite expensive!) but you don't use it? What is your connection/speed to the internet at the moment?

Easy - we bought a semi-derelict office block; converted the ground floor for the church, reception and so on, the first floor to hall & meeting rooms, and are letting one and a half floors to charities. Although the planning team knew of it they didn't capitalise on this when planning the conversion.
The guy who acted as our 'works manager' is a highpowered accountant with zero knowledge of tech stuff - in fact committed one or two whoopsies from his ignorance - and we're left with picking up jobs undone or half-done... for example we still have no permanent signage 'cos he ruffled the feathers of Derby's planning approvals guys.

Present connection speed on copper is satisfactory at 110 mB on internal wifi.
I had a luxuriant black beard and a full head of hair when i started this job....

[Boac]

Still not sure what sort of connection you have, Jim. '110Mb' is very high for a copper line and presumably if that is the wifi speed the actual connection will be faster! Who is it with and do you know what the contract is called?

Happy to close this inquisition if you don't need more info

[jimtherev]

Thanks Boac and indeed all for comments so far.
Got to chase this bloke and ask him if he knows what he's on about, and get the odd comment from competitors. One will keep in touch.

[barkingmad]

Legal requirement here as part of BT contract to have one phone on the line that does not require any electricity to work. Common sense IMHO. Gang of us once rented a house in Scotland, very remote, 2 miles up winding drive, two phones in property, both cordless, no mobile service. When the power went off we couldn't ring anyone about it. Fortunately nobody fell ill during the power cut.

I don’t know how they can comply with that legal requirement?

In November 2021 I arrived at my Gatwick dog-kennel to discover the landline phone was dead. In the mailbox was a postcard from BT advising me this magic technology was imminent and I could either get a mains powered adaptor or a new mains powered base for a cordless phone which would talk to the new wiggly amps at the socket.

But the adaptor or the phone would still require a functioning mains supply and use up another 13A socket....

The other option was to peel off a sticker on the back of the BT broadband router which exposed a socket into which an ordinary phone could be plugged which instantly solved the loss of comms problem but still required a functioning router to work and that requires a functioning AC mains power supply, so back to square one!

Relatively few of my acquaintances realise this change is creeping out across the UK, nor did they appreciate that a house full of cordless phones would be offline in a power cut without an old-fashioned plug in socket phone which used to function on BT’s electricity supply in the line.

The recent power outages in Scotland and Northern England after “the wrong sort of wind” events highlights the potential danger in this change, over which there has been no consultation and precious little publicity.

When one thinks of the numbers of elderly or non-IT customers who do not have broadband in remote areas then there will be grief as this change rolls out further. Don’tya just lurve new technology?

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!! And yes, I am a Luddite being dragged reluctantly into the new age...

[Boac]

Legal requirement here as part of BT contract to have one phone on the line that does not require any electricity to work

The USO which is the responsibility of BT or KCom. The subject of a lot of correspondence with OfCom and various folk at the moment. There is, by the way, no requirement for anything other than a fixed line telephone to work in a power outage.

Those 'without' broadband apparently will be served using either wireless broadband or 'SOPTAP' (Single Order Transitional Access Product) only recently 'developed' by BT and due 'on stream' late summer. It will use the existing 'copper' from the exchange to premises and supply an ADSL feed which will be more than adequate for VOIP. There will be no requirement to take a 'normal' broadband contract or supply for those who declare they do not want it.

The situation for other (broadband) users is complex and I think not fully thought through. I understand that where fibre is not available/in use, the telephone will be fed via FTTC or wireless. I have asked whether this will require more cabinets but as yet do not have an answer.

The existing 50V power on the line will disappear, of course, leaving customers to find a UPS solution.

Another BoJo 'plan', I fear, driven, I suspect, by his 'mates' in BT.

[Rwy in Sight]

BM, I have exactly the same thoughts about moving from a PSTN service with a "normal" phone connected to the wall outlet towards a faster but router (thus 220 V power) dependent Voip service.

[Boac]

Thoughts you may have but you ain't got no choice! Mind you, wireless broadband via a tethered mobile which you can recharge in your car would work.

[llondel]

Good job they're removed most of the phone boxes. As I understand it, the lights in the box (when working) were powered by a spare pair and 48V from the exchange.

[CharlieOneSix]

Thoughts you may have but you ain't got no choice! Mind you, wireless broadband via a tethered mobile which you can recharge in your car would work.

We have no landline but have wireless internet and mobile phones. With no near neighbours we felt at risk for the four days without power, internet or mobile signal when Storm Corrie hit. Mrs C16 was extremely concerned about how she would do CPR on me yet get to a neighbour several hundred yards away for help....until she realised they haven't got a landline either! Some days your number is just up!