Where did it go?

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ian16th
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Where did it go?

#1 Post by ian16th » Mon May 22, 2017 6:38 am

65 years ago today, on 22nd May 1952, the 16th Entry of Boy Entrants were inducted into the RAF. In my case at RAF Yatesbury.

A motley collection of 15-17 year old youths, all who had their education affected by WWII, from all over the UK and a few from the Republic of Ireland.

They were the 1st Entry to swear allegiance to the new Queen Elizabeth II, and take the 'Queens Shilling.'

I wonder how many of us survive? Did we know what the journey was that we started that day?

Where it would lead us?
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Re: Where did it go?

#2 Post by Alisoncc » Mon May 22, 2017 11:26 am

Wasn't far behind you young Ian. May 1959 presented at RAF Cardington for assessment. Spent two days doing exams and the like. Can't remember the precise day, so reckon about now would be my 58th anniversary. They sent me away to finish my GCE's, and in due course got a letter to present at RAF Locking, and I was in. Don't remember ever actually getting a shilling from the Queen. If I had most probably would have spent it on polish.

Without any shadow of doubt the following eight years were some of the best years of my life. They were truly magical years.

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Re: Where did it go?

#3 Post by Sisemen » Mon May 22, 2017 12:36 pm

24 September 1963, 50th Entry, RAF Hereford. Seems like yesterday.

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Re: Where did it go?

#4 Post by om15 » Wed May 24, 2017 10:58 am

Ian, you embarked on your career before I was born!
I didn't follow in your footsteps until 3 Sept 1968, 213 Entry Halton. App A/Fitt/A

I think that we all owe the mob a great deal for our starts in life, didn't realise it at the time, but do now.

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Re: Where did it go?

#5 Post by Ex-Ascot » Wed May 24, 2017 11:18 am

Hey, this all makes me feel younger. March 1978 for 16 years.
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Re: Where did it go?

#6 Post by ian16th » Wed May 24, 2017 1:57 pm

om15 wrote:Ian, you embarked on your career before I was born!
I didn't follow in your footsteps until 3 Sept 1968, 213 Entry Halton. App A/Fitt/A

I think that we all owe the mob a great deal for our starts in life, didn't realise it at the time, but do now.

Om

I was demobbed after 10 years service, that didn't start until my 18th birthday, so my 10 year hitch was almost 13 years.

I started my terminal/accrued leave the Friday 5th February, 1965. Actual demob day was my 28th birthday 17 March.

As I said at TOP, I was one of the lucky guys; in spite of having the minimal education the the UK could provide, aided and abetted for a part of it, by one Adolf Hitler. Thanks to the RAF being world leaders in the use of IQ & aptitude tests, they worked out that in spite of my lousy education, I was not stupid. So when I expressed an interest in this new fangled Radar stuff, they said yes! And I was in and running.

Most of it was enjoyable, definitely a broadening of the mind. I was very lucky with my postings, Lindholme than Coningsby, 2 overseas tours, a year in the South of France as a 20 year old, and 2 years accompanied at Akrotiri as a newly wed. In between just less than 4 years at Marham on 214 doing the IFR trials and then the early days of being the 1st operational tanker sqdn. Lots of short detachments to odd places. Then after Akrotiri, at my request, back to Marham and luckily 214, for my last 6 months, just as the Valiant's were discovered to be falling apart and virtually not flying. So getting time off for job interviews was no problem.

I should also mention RAF Yatesbury, from 1952 to 1959, I spent some time there of each of these years totaling about 30 months at that grand old University of Wriggly Amps.
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Re: Where did it go?

#7 Post by ricardian » Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:07 pm

I started as a Boy Entrant (38th entry Telegraphist II) in Oct 1959. Had a moderately pleasant 12 years without having to do anything too outrageous. Highlight was 2.5 years at Akrotiri 1965-67. Low point was 38 Gp at Tangmere - boring, no training or dets unless you were one of the select few; I volunteered for a long detachment with 24 (Air Portable) Brigade which was moderately entertaining. Demob in 1973 was welcome and, thanks to the RAF training, I was able to join GCHQ as a trainee Radio Officer at Bletchley Park. I then spent 30 years thoroughly enjoying myself at various locations in England & Scotland. Retired in 2003, moved to Orkney in 2004 and am still here. Alas, Mrs R died 3 years ago leaving me with a stroppy cat to look after.
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Re: Where did it go?

#8 Post by om15 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:45 pm

Although our training experiences might not be quite so pleasurable as those following us today, I think that we had better training than the young people now leaving university with little useable skills and a massive debt.
At least we know how to keep our shoes clean and always turn up 5 minutes before meetings.

Ricardian, you had a good career, mine is coming to an end in two months time and I have mixed feelings.

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Re: Where did it go?

#9 Post by Pontius Navigator » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:26 pm

Ian, recently, well 1996, I was at University of Lincoln. Our lecturer was one Useff.

He started on time and complete ignored late arrivals. This was so refreshing where in the Air Force a lecturer might start and restart a lecture several times to allow for late comers.

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Re: Where did it go?

#10 Post by ian16th » Sat Sep 16, 2017 9:10 am

We didn't had late arrivals in Boys Service, one daren't be late! To save one the walk, we marched as a class between lectures, workshops, PT, GCT or whatever we was on the timetable.

At Yatesbury, each airmans course also marched between classes. Even on Fitters course. I honestly can't remember the routine for my Bomber Conversion course. The trade test at the end of this was Cpl/Tech and all of the students, bar one, were Cpl's. The odd guy was a J/T.
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Re: Where did it go?

#11 Post by Sisemen » Sat Sep 16, 2017 11:31 am

Since leaving the RAF I have been chairman of various committees. The members have invariably been surprised when the meeting has almost come to an end before they deigned to turn up on "West Australian time". Generally they only did that once!

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Re: Where did it go?

#12 Post by Alisoncc » Sat Sep 16, 2017 11:40 am

Ian during my three years at Locking I gained the impression that the only way to get from A to B was by marching. Then the aviation God's smiled on me in abundance, I was posted to Finningley - 230 OCU B Sqdn. B Sqdn were the first in Bomber Command to get the new you beaut Vulcans B2's. They were full of the latest and greatest electronics toys and I got to play with them all. :-bd

People like PN got to play with them as well, but it was only after we had finished. PN didn't get to pull them apart like what we did. (Need one of those smileys that shows thumb touching the nose and fingers waggling back and forwards.) :-h

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Re: Where did it go?

#13 Post by Pontius Navigator » Sat Sep 16, 2017 12:01 pm

Alison, but we were encouraged to watch the fairies play. Report a snag, wait a day or so and then to the Gin Palace where, with a bit of luck, your box was on the bench. One day I went in to find the fairy working on the LEFT side of the 585 whereas I knew the fault was on the RIGHT side. Pointed out where the 720 (?) was wrong. He looked and 'lo, there was a chaffed cable. It was what I would call a 'profile' snag. The box had only been pulled as I had reported it on Monday, Wednesday and Friday. The aircraft had flown on Tuesday and Thursday with no fault reported. As it happened the same nav rad had also flown it n both days.

It turned out that his profiles had been straight and level whereas mine all involved positive and negative gee and it had caused a cable to move and short on the chassis only to clear after the next gee.

On my next tour it was more difficult to even get to the Gin Palace and the practise stopped.

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Re: Where did it go?

#14 Post by Alisoncc » Sat Sep 16, 2017 12:52 pm

Sorry Sir, says Alison, whilst saluting with both hands and dropping the kit she was holding, it didn't work that way.

Our sole priority was to keep the aircraft operational at all times. Read the F700, take out any test kit available and run diagnostics. If fault confirmed then replace relevant unit with one drawn from stores. Re-run diagnostics or carry out full serviceability checks. If fault resolved to ones satisfaction sign off in the F700 and return U/S unit to store with label denoting reason for removal, where in due course it would be shipped to the Gin Palace. If the F700 entry suggested that the person reporting a fault knew what he was talking about and we were unable to fault it ourselves, then we might change a unit on the basis of a suspected fault.

An item would never be pulled from an aircraft, shipped to the Gin Palace, and then in due course replaced in the aircraft. This had the potential for the aircraft to be declared unserviceable for the duration of the process. Whilst we were an OCU, the aircraft and ground crews were very much part of Bomber Commands inventory, and as such the serviceable status of an aircraft was reported back to Command immediately there was any change. Hence most probably the reason why the Crew Chiefs were on our backs constantly if there were uncleared F700 entries.

If a Mickey Fin or similar was called we would get operational aircrews up from Waddington by road, and it was our job to prepare all the aircraft for their arrival, on QRA or ORP's as necessary. As previously commented to all intents and purposes we were an operational Bomber Command facility, its just that we also had a day job - training aircrews. Mind you no idea what A Sqdn with their B1's got up to, they were a slack bunch anyway.

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Re: Where did it go?

#15 Post by Pontius Navigator » Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:06 pm

Alison, you clearly misunderstood. The routine was to remove a box where there was NFF after the first report when it was reported a second time. In the case I mentioned the box was only removed on the Friday. It had flown U/S, S, U/S, S, U/S. As it did not have two consecutive fault flights it was not pulled until I showed how it had repeated the a fault over 3 flights. Subsequently we identified that the profiles had been different on alternate flights.

A similar condition might arise where a bit of kit was u/s on the first flight but neither used nor tested by a different crew on the next flight but then fail again on the third flight.

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Re: Where did it go?

#16 Post by Pontius Navigator » Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:09 pm

If a Mickey Fin or similar was called we would get operational aircrews up from Waddington by road, and it was our job to prepare all the aircraft for their arrival, on QRA or ORP's as necessary. As previously commented to all intents and purposes we were an operational Bomber Command facility, its just that we also had a day job - training aircrews. Mind you no idea what A Sqdn with their B1's got up to, they were a slack bunch anyway.


And it became my job to select crews to cover the Finningley targets on the basis that they would report to duty at Waddo within 60 minutes and be on the road PDQ after as Finningley would be screaming for the crews within H+2. As for the Mk 1's same rules except for those without a sting in the tail.

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Re: Where did it go?

#17 Post by Alisoncc » Sat Sep 16, 2017 8:08 pm

Pontius Navigator wrote:Alison, you clearly misunderstood. The routine was to remove a box where there was NFF after the first report when it was reported a second time. In the case I mentioned the box was only removed on the Friday. It had flown U/S, S, U/S, S, U/S. As it did not have two consecutive fault flights it was not pulled until I showed how it had repeated the a fault over 3 flights. Subsequently we identified that the profiles had been different on alternate flights.

PN, I can only assume you are talking about the NBS/H2S systems, as opposed to the standard avionics - Intercom, STR18, TR-1985/86, ARC52, ILS/VOR, ADF, RadAlt, TACAN, Green Satin, Red Steer, ECM - various, etc., etc. etc. There was a strict demarcation between the two groups and who was responsible, and in respect to the second group there was no such protocol.

The cogs and wheels of NBS weren't my responsibility, and the NBS guy didn't seem to know much about the H2S radar aspect even though it was his kit. They were a law unto themselves. Much of their kit was all smoke and mirrors, whereas ours came with guarantees of operability. ;)

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PS. Looking aft PN, did you normally occupy the left, middle or right seat?
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Re: Where did it go?

#18 Post by ian16th » Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:51 am

A view from a Valiant man.

Intermittent snags always were and always will be the most difficult to fix.

I never treated the Nav's as idiots, when they reported a snag it was looked at. If the sympton couldn't be reproduced on the ground, it was a problem. That problem wasn't fixed simply by entering 'GTFS' in the F700, though sometimes it was the best aproach as a further flight might give added information. On piston engined a/c, such as Lincolns and Varsity's at Lindholme, if we suspected vibration caused problems, we had engine runs while we tested kit, and on odd occasions the ground crew flew on air tests.

This of course was rare on V-Bombers, and if a snag couldn't be identifed on the ground the Crew Chief was now a very important guy in the loop. He was always consulted and because of different shifts of ground crew and different aircrews, he was the a/c's constant companion.

Wasn't this the whole concept of a Crew Chief?

Other times when a snag couldn't be reproduced on the ground, a 'best guess' was made and a box swap would happen.
Depending upon which bit of kit we are talking about, the small single box equipment such at the Rad Alts, the guess was pretty accurate. The Crew Chief was of course always in the loop.

I also had my time in the 'Gin Palace', in one case at Akrotiri, where I had the Green Satin bench for 2 years. My 'customers' were 13 Sqdn with Canberra PR9's and transiting a/c mainly Britannia's, plus the occasional V-Bomber. The other 2 Canberra Sqdn's at Akrotiri were fitted with Blue Silk.

I was lucky in that one of the Sgt's from 214 was posted to Akrotiri and 13 Sqdn as the Radio SNCO, just weeks before I went out there so we knew and trusted each other.

One unique factor with PR9 as opposed to the Valiant, they flew higher, quite a lot higher. Cyprus was also surrounds by the relatively smooth Mediterranean Sea. Two things that caused a lot of Green Satin' Tx/Rx's to be snagged with 'Unlocking at height'. Unlocking at height, was the classic symptom of the magnetron packing up and being on its way out. Though it wasn't always the case, putting a device that indicated the power out onto the waveguide was always the 1st thing one checked.

Having changed the magnetron, there was quite a set-up procedure to go through, including tuning the klystron to the new magnetron. This was done with twiddling fingers of the left hand being very close to 6Kv, while watching a scope to ones right.
One always ensured the presence of duckboard and rubber mat! We fairies in dust coats also risked our lives.

During one 13 Sqdn exercise when I was getting these 'unlocking at height' sets brought in just about every flight, but on the bench everything checked out OK. Through my ex-214 mate I arranged to out to the Sqdn to debrief the Nav's. I had to wait till they got out of their 'space suits' and I was taken through what had happened. When I pointed out that the operational limit specification for the GS was up to 60,000' I was told that it was only unlocking at some unspecified height above this! The snag rate then dropped.

I said earlier that I didn't treat Nav's as idiots, true, but like all sections of any community some were better than others at describing their problems. Some were much more interested in understanding the kit than others.

It was always easier to clear a snag if you had a good description of the problem than a simple scrawl of 'Gee U/S', in the F700.
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Re: Where did it go?

#19 Post by Alisoncc » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:34 am

ian16th wrote:Having changed the magnetron, there was quite a set-up procedure to go through, including tuning the klystron to the new magnetron.

At Locking, on the Green Satin benches, we had 10 inch long copper screwdrivers that would reach down to the tuning slot on the Klystron. Being copper they wouldn't be dragged off course by the magnetron magnets which, if it occurred, would cause the screwdriver to make contact with the EHT and zap the individual. That's from 55 years ago. :D

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Re: Where did it go?

#20 Post by ian16th » Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:23 am

Alisoncc wrote:Being copper they wouldn't be dragged off course by the magnetron magnets

Alison


Being copper, they conducted better!
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