Avro Vulcan Nostalgia - more Haynes inspired stuff

[ian16th]

Was this 'pilot visual bomb-sight' operated by either of the Pilot or Co-pilot?

If so, why? The Vulcan carried 2 navigators, who had been through BCBS Lindholme.

[boing]

The pilots in the Vulcan had a visual bomb release button stowed under the coaming on a flexible arm. This button was only active after the bomb-bay doors had been opened by the NavRad.

It was not unusual for the pilots to fly the aircraft visually over a target, even on a radar bombing run, because a visual line-up was more accurate than a radar line-up. Unfortunately, the view from the front of the Vulcan meant that you lost sight of the target under the nose quite a way from the target so an along track visual release point was difficult to judge (often counting to some value, four I think, AFTER you had lost sight of the target under the nose was the wag). The visual bomb-sight was an attempt to provide a datum for the pilot to press the release button while the target was still in view then a timer took care of the counting. Unfortunately, any speed or pitch correction made by the pilot flying caused the release line to move wildly up and down about the target causing gross errors in judging the release point. (The geometry of the situation, the bomb-sight being only inches from the pilots eyes and the target being miles away, caused the great angular errors).

Remember that about this time the Vulcan was being removed from nuclear strike and used more in the iron-bomb mode. The radar release error did not matter too much with a nuke but it was too much for good conventional bombing so it was attempted to give the job to the pilots. Clearly the navigators could not use a visual bomb-sight at low-level.

In the trials aircraft the Captain flew the aircraft and tried to handle the left/right line-up and the co-pilot had the bomb-sight mounted in front of him. The problem with the idea was that even the smoothest pilot would need to make corrections even in good conditions during a trial, how steady could he fly under fire or in bad weather conditions? A stabilised bomb-sight, no more complicated than a WW2 gun sight, could have solved the pitch error problem.


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[54Phan]

Can I just say that I really enjoy the information that you folks share so willingly. Thanks.

[Alisoncc]

I once had a strip torn off for taking the initiative and marshalling a Valiant into its pan on the grounds that 'fairies don't marshal'.

At Finningley fairies were considered just as much a member of a ground crew as anyone else. Even more so as riggers and sooties had specified tasks to carry out. So we got to do the marshalling, pulling and replacing chocks, hooking and unhooking Houchins (GPU's) and battery carts, and pushing them around. And if on QRA making sure we didn't get blown away when they scrambled. Which was no mean feat.

I've seen four Olympus donks going flat-chat lift a Houchin into the air and dump it fifty yards away. Learned from that that hiding behind one wasn't such a good idea. You had to know which direction the airie was going to turn and make sure you ran in a direction such that you didn't get caught by it's jet exhaust when they did turn.

Was on a forum yesterday where they were discussing the car air-bag recall and some snowflake was rabbiting on the dangers of one exploding. In the air force in the sixties as a liney you were surrounded by things that went bang everyday of your life. Snuggling down into the cockpit of a FJ you would have explosive bolts that blew the canopy off, and the bang seat had rockets to splatter you against the hangar roof if not disarmed properly.

Instead of pressing the R/T button to check the radios, press one of the others and if the armourer hadn't done his job then shells could emanate from the wing mounted cannons, or even a couple of missiles may make their presence known. The engines may need AVPIN, sometimes described as liquid TNT, to start them or explosive cartridges. Down the Gulf we would get anything haul in. Worked on Hunters, Javelins, Lightnings through to Phantoms, and never knew what would go bang if inadvertently grabbed.

HF communications was an absolute necessity for Vulcans, and the HF (STR18B) antenna coupler was located in the ceiling at the back of the bomb bay, and the hatch to access it was at the front of the bomb bay. So guess who had to make their way down from front to back inside the bay to sort the coupler, gingerly trying to avoid setting off any of the munitions that may be loaded. That could be heart-stopping to.

Happy Daze.

Alison

[boing]

So Alison, you remember the small access doors that could be used to get into the bomb-bay even when the main doors were closed.

It just so happened that these access doors were right under the front end of the nuke (WE177) which was loaded when the aircraft was on QRA. At the end of a QRA period the nuke was disarmed by the crew standing down and the replacement crew coming on duty re-armed it with new settings appropriate to their target.

It was the job of the NavRad to make the correct settings on the weapon based on the co-pilot reading from a checklist. This involved the NavRad standing on the top of a set of steps positioned below the opened access door which was about ten feet off the ground. The co-pilot stood on the steps below the NavRad so they could communicate. The NavRad made the settings through a hinged panel on the side of the weapon.

The final action of the checklist was to turn the arming switch from OFF to ARMED. I never got over the irrational desire to put my fingers in my ears as the switch was clicked over - just in case someone had the wiring wrong.

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[ian16th]

The radar release error did not matter too much with a nuke

I'm pleased to see someone say this!

Way back in 1954-5, I was working in the BCBS school building servicing the Gee-H trainers, we didn't call them simulators in those days. The error or 'miss' was calibrated in yards left or right and in seconds over or undershoot.
The numbers that were typical, were so small I always wondered WTF? These guys are planning on dropping nuke's.

After I had done my monthly inspection and calibration, I did a 'run'. If I didn't get a direct hit, I re-calibrated the kit!

My mate who looked after the H2S trainer and I aways wondered how well we would have done in an actual bomb drop from a Lincoln.

[Alisoncc]

So Alison, you remember the small access doors that could be used to get into the bomb-bay even when the main doors were closed.

Do I ever. Was a regular task to climb into the bomb-bay to tap the STR18B aerial coupler with a small rubber mallet. The hatch covering it had small blade style Dzus fasteners that could be opened by hand. Not that we didn't have penny-washer Dzus keys.

Normal Ops on 230 OCU B Sqdn were relatively straight forward, training air crews, but our aircraft and ground crews were classified as Bomber Command assets and we were always involved in Mickey and Mickey Fin exercises. PN knows all about crews coming up from Waddo to Finningley. Being relatively small and able to squeeze passed any contents in the bomb-bay to access the aerial coupler if on shift I was the number one choice to do so. Did it often. I have no recollection of the actual event but on one occasion I was informed by a crew chief a few days after that the bomb I had squeezed passed had been a live nuke, and to gain access to the aerial coupler hatch I had sat on it. Dr Strangelove had nuffing on me. I still glow in the dark.

Alison

[boing]

Ian,

Being interested in electronics and technical subjects I would occasionally wander over to the bombing/nav. equipment repair bay for a chat. I must have got to know the guys quite well because they would even get me a cup of tea. On one occasion they were carrying out a special calibration process on some bombing equipment to be used in a competition. I asked how this was done and the reply was that they kept calibrating the equipment in a sort of continuous test loop until the could not achieve greater accuracy. I asked how many calibration loops were involved and was told something like seven. Then I asked how many loops they used for a non-competition calibration and the reply was that according to published procedures they carried out two loops.

Apparently, if the effort had been made, all of the aircraft could actually have had a much more accurate bombing system than they normally flew with. I suppose "Their Airships" must have thought two loops were good enough for a nuke.


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[Sisemen]

I remember a particularly gruesome elf n safety lecture (called ‘new arrivals briefing’ in those days) when I transferred from Finningley to Scampers, which involved a pic of a techie who’d been sitting on the pilot bang seat with canopy off and while doing whatever he was doing with his arm resting on the coaming set off the canopy ejection sequence. For those that remember it was a 1inch steel bolt on either side used to punch the coaming away. The bolt entered his elbow and exited the wrist That photograph still haunts me today.

[ian16th]

I remember when I was at Coningsby, 1956-7. I was in the Radar Bay, but also worked in ASF, where most Radio work was take all the kit out at the beginning of an inspection to get it out of everybody's way, and then put it all back at the end.

The a/c were Canberra B2's, it was my 1st acquaintance with bang seats, and at the time it was said that they had killed and injured more ground crew than saved aircrew!

As for scary movies, the US made propaganda films about the perils of VD were high on my list.

[Alisoncc]

at the time it was said that they had killed and injured more ground crew than saved aircrew!

On our Lightnings at Leconfield the engineering occifer came up with this bright idea of having large red pennants on foot long wire ties fixed to the safety pins in the bang seats. This was to alert both air and ground crew to their presence. The problem was that it was incredibly easy for the pennant to catch on anything, and in doing so pull the safety pin out of the bang seat.

Watching pennant and wire followed by safety pin fall to the ground outside the aircraft whilst I was standing on the bang seat with a small tool bag in hand was one of my more scary happenings. It was so very easy to catch your foot in the yellow and black pull handle when climbing out. AND BANG !!

Alison

[Pontius Navigator]

Alison," Being relatively small and able to squeeze passed any contents in the bomb-bay to access the aerial coupler if on shift I was the number one choice to do so. Did it often. I have no recollection of the actual event but on one occasion I was informed by a crew chief a few days after that the bomb I had squeezed passed had been a live nuke, and to gain access to the aerial coupler hatch I had sat on it. Dr Strangelove had nuffing on me. I still glow in the dark. "

Probably a Yellow Sun - larger and green - and on an Exercise Mick. As it was a nuke, live or not, you should have had someone with you and both of you should have been visible to each other. As you were clearly not nuclear trained there should have been two others who were. Could have been very cosy with 4 of you in there.

I still remember the checks, turbine blanks removed, probe inside the turbine inlets to ensure no rags etc in them. Check frangible nose intact. Open access panel, ensure
Ground Impact Isolation Plug was not fitted. Check plockets all secure. Tailcone not damaged

[Alisoncc]

Probably a Yellow Sun - larger and green - and on an Exercise Mick. As it was a nuke, live or not, you should have had someone with you and both of you should have been visible to each other. As you were clearly not nuclear trained there should have been two others who were. Could have been very cosy with 4 of you in there.

Get real Sir. I don't need to remind you this was the Cold War, and like aircrew, ground crew were dispensable. Each and everyone one of us took it bloody seriously, believing sincerely that we were then at war with the Soviets. The Cuban crisis was still very fresh in everyone's minds.

On QRA with scramble called, all four donks roaring away, the aircrew chomping at the bit whilst only just holding her on the brakes, and the crew chief yells "aerial coupler's stuck". Somebody grabs a ladder and up I go. Didn't have time to discuss it. Only long distance comms was HF, so to go or not via morse code was the order of the day. Couldn't have us nuking Moscow when it was only an exercise. They might get upset.

Suspect the AEO went through a few channels on the HF as precise one for "call back or go" may have been an unknown at that stage. If the coupler was going to stick after a cold Yorkshire winters night, then this was it.

Alison

[FD2]

Apart from air displays when a full power gut shaking climb out by a Vulcan was a definite highlight, my only closer acquaintance with the aircraft was on a tragic visit to Malta. The aircraft had been flown out from Waddington on the 14th October 1975. It was a chance for some people to have a 'jolly' and there were two passengers in jump seats as well as the crew of five. We had disembarked from Hermes to Hal Far to continue flying when the ship was in Valletta Harbour and two aircraft had just landed and the crews were about to debrief. One young crewman was outside having a smoke and watched a Vulcan flying downwind at Luqa and it appeared to be on fire. Suddenly there was a huge explosion and one wing folded as the aircraft started spiralling down. He ran back to the crewroom and the two aircraft were airborne again in a matter of minutes to look for survivors - tragically they only found the two pilots who had ejected. Physically they had minor ejection injuries but were in a bad state mentally having just lost five colleagues. They were flown to RNH Bighi.

The aircraft had landed heavily in the undershoot and then bounced on to the runway some 600 yards further on, and rather than continue with the landing the captain had elected to take it back up to a few thousand feet to assess any damage - it would also have given those in the back, without ejection seats, the chance to use the escape chute if necessary. They didn't know that one of the main oleos had been forced up and punctured a fuel line as it had been ripped off. The large volume of fuel inside the wing had eventually reached one of the engines and ignited. The wreckage landed on a small town but luckily there was only one further casualty - a woman who was struck by a falling powerline. A very sad event and still remembered sadly in Malta today.

[Pontius Navigator]

FD2, for the Captain this was his second ejection from a Vulcan. I had two friends in the back.

[Pontius Navigator]

Boing referred to the CVBS being used to fly the line to the target and radar for ranging. This indeed was how most crews used it. Vis line/rad rng. We had one crew that did radar steering and visual range.

The attack criteria for the nuclear attack was 350kts/300ft and forward throw of 415 yards. For a conventional stick with 1400 yards stick length the release point was nearer 1300 yards back. For the 28lb practice bomb it was probably 600 yards.

In one 6 month period the 10 crews on 35 got an average of 300 feet on the Episcopi raft. One crew for 280 and one got 320. In practice the range scores were probably not as accurate as that. I have a picture of a direct hit on my log book, it is a good 60 feet off.

[Cacophonix]

I bought and read Tony Blackman's excellent "Vulcan Test Pilot and he noted this accident...

10 September 1958: The first prototype Avro Vulcan strategic bomber, VX770, piloted by Rolls-Royce test pilot Keith R. Sturt, was on a test flight from the Rolls-Royce Flight Test Establishment, RAF Hucknall, when it diverted to make a scheduled fly-past for an air show being held at RAF Syerstone in Nottinghamshire. Also aboard were Co-Pilot Ronald W. Ward of Fairey Aviation; Rolls-Royce Flight Engineer William E. Howkins; and Navigator, Flight Lieutenant Raymond M. (“Polly”) Parrott, Royal Air Force.

VX770 approached RAF Syerstone at 12:57 p.m. (GMT) and flew east along Runway 07-25 at about 250 feet (76 meters). As the Vulcan passed the control tower at an estimated speed of 350 knots, it began a right turn.

Witnesses saw a “kink” form in the leading edge of the Vulcan’s right wing, which then began to disintegrate from the leading edge aft. Wing surface panels could be seen being stripped off before the wing spar failed completely. Clouds of fuel from ruptured tanks trailed as the bomber rolled to the left. The top of the vertical fin came off, the nose pitched upward toward vertical, then straight down, and with both wings on fire, the airplane crashed near the east end of the runway.

All four crew members were killed as were three RAF fire/rescue personnel on the ground. Several others were injured.

The cause of the Vulcan’s wing failure was not determined. Metal fatigue was suspected. The airplane had been used in flight testing for six years and it is possible that it’s design limits may have been exceeded. There was also speculation that vibrations from the new Rolls-Royce Conway “bypass turbojet” engine, which is now called a turbofan, may have weakened the wing.

https://www.thisdayinaviation.com/20-september-1958/

I did wonder when reading the painful account whether the pilots might have elected not to eject in order to prevent carnage on the ground and not to depart without their colleagues in the back.

Did the ejector seat technology at the time allow for a succesful ejection at such a low altitude I wonder?

Vulcan down.jpg (60.74 KiB) Viewed 462 times

Caco

[Boac]

Apart from any possible 'loyalty' towards the rear crew I suspect the g-forces and 'shock' of the event would have precluded an ejection attempt.

[Alisoncc]

Hey Caco, I was there at Syerston when the Vulcan broke into pieces during the fly past, September 1958. Born and bred Nottingham, and Syerston was my nearest BoB air display. I saw the whole thing.

Alison

[Cacophonix]

Hey Caco, I was there at Syerston when the Vulcan broke into pieces during the fly past, September 1958. Born and bred Nottingham, and Syerston was my nearest BoB air display. I saw the whole thing.

Alison

Ah so you are a Nottingham denizen Alison. Apparently I was conceived in Nottingham but that is another story. Seeing the aircraft come apart in such awful circumstances must have been quite a shock and very sad for all, flying and ground crew, concerned!

Caco