Vulcan

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TheGreenGoblin
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Re: Vulcan

#161 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:19 am

I imagine that they also took some gross liberties with the configuration of the oxygen system...


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Re: Vulcan

#162 Post by Boac » Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:35 am

PN wrote:WEC, Whitbread Enjoyment Course
Ah! Never did that course. I have several course completion certificates from the Ruddles Enjoyment Course at N luff, however.

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Re: Vulcan

#163 Post by Undried Plum » Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:43 am

boing wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 10:32 pm
We were at an American base getting ready for departure. Everyone was busy so when 3 quite senior Americans officers came up and asked if they could look in the cockpit we just said "Yes, help yourselves". They then proceeded to the steps at the rear of the bomb bay that were in position so that we could load the bomb bay pannier and started to climb.

Obviously they had got their training from watching Thunderball.
In the 1980s/90s I did some freelance work for the commercial contractor to USN SUPSALV for Seabed Search & Recovery. We did lots of interesting jobs for them, such as the recovery of the unchocked F-14 wot rolled off the deck; the recovery of the F-14 and body of the first femme driver of yon type; Helderberg; KAL007; Challenger; and a whole lot more.

When the moustacheoed guy went into Kuwait, USN and the rest of 'em went into Planning mode. SUPSALV approached the Company and asked us to put together a Seabed Search plan for a scenario in which an F117 was to be shot down or fall down. I got the job of writing a paper and making a presentation to the USN types in the Pentagon. I was given three days to write my paper and told that on the fourth day I'd have to present my results to the bigwigs in the eponymous pentagonal building.

They had given us 3-D co-ords of the airframe shape and expected us to compute the likelihood of getting a good returns from Side-Scan and Laser Linescan. They/we got around the usual NOFORN restriction in a way I won't mention here, but actually the internal mechanical construction of the thing wasn't much more advanced than that of a Cessna or a Piper, or a B-17 for that matter.

I was given 10 minutes to brief the bigwigs. They were clearly full of anticipation, apparently thinking that they'd got the Limey-sounding guy snookered.

I started my talk with a visual of the damned thing. I gave the briefest of pre-ambles as we all knew what my brief was and what my briefing was to be about.

"Gentlemen" I said, "Here is an image of what we have been briefed to find". I showed the image that they had given us. A downward-looking oblique from about 45°, of a pristine F-117 sitting on a ramp.

In those days I still smoked. As soon as I stood up, I had pulled a packet of cigarettes out of my shirt pocket and pulled the silverpaper lining out of the pack. I scrumpled it up in the palm of my hand and put the pack back in its pocket.

"This, Gentlemen, is what it's going to look like by the time you guys call us". I threw the crumpled bit of aluminised paper onto the table. That, I can find very easily".

You could have heard a pin drop. The faces were thunderstruck.

I had to bite my lip really really hard to prevent myself from saying 'Watched too many James Bond films, have we, lads?'

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Re: Vulcan

#164 Post by Pontius Navigator » Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:00 am

UP, so it wasn't a question of clipping 3 or 4 sky hooks to the lifting eyes then 😁

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Re: Vulcan

#165 Post by Alisoncc » Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:04 am

PN if you recollect when climbing the ladder if you turned around half way up to face the rear of the aircraft there was a shelf. Jumping on to the shelf and then on to your knees you could push yourself up into a standing position on the shelf giving you access to the rear of all the Nav's, AEO's etc. equipment rack. Necessary if any of it went crook. I was a regular visitor to this access.

At this time you would have been directly in front of the bomb bay bulkhead. If there had been a hatch it could have been possible to get into the bomb bay. There may have been an intention to be able to release stuck munitions, non-nuke, if necessary via this route.

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Re: Vulcan

#166 Post by Undried Plum » Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:11 am

Pontius Navigator wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:00 am
UP, so it wasn't a question of clipping 3 or 4 sky hooks to the lifting eyes then 😁
Sadly, I never got a chance to find out.

The Yugoslavs did embarrass the Empire with a well guided and aimed shot at one over land. I believe some of that junk ended up in the hands of the Chinee who were not impressed by the Gweilo technology.

The damned thing was quietly withdrawn from service as being a useless and monstrously overpriced (even by Pentagoon standards) piece of shite.

As a "fighter" F-117 couldn't fight its way out of a paper bag. As a bomber, it was only of use against people who couldn't defend themselves against bombers.

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Re: Vulcan

#167 Post by ian16th » Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:14 pm

TheGreenGoblin wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 3:51 am


Thunderball_Vulcan_replica_%281%29.jpg

Vulcan Thunderball
Gotta put in a plug for the dear old Vickers Valiant, playing the part of the 'Vulture' in The Liquidator.

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Re: Vulcan

#168 Post by Pontius Navigator » Sun Jul 19, 2020 12:22 pm

UP,but remember, it was Russian technology, or theory at least.

Apparently a Russian mathematician published a paper in an open source document. It didn't interest the USSR and because it was open source it was accorded a low priority for translation service and analysis. Once they knew what they had . . .

As for the shoot down, that was also a very competent piece of maths. As I recall they used a separate illuminator and receiver.

Wasn't it a 117 that 'accidentally' hit the Chinese Embassy or was it a CM?

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Re: Vulcan

#169 Post by Undried Plum » Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:09 pm

I've heard three different explanations for the shootdown of the Wobblin' Goblin.

One is that the radar they used was of such low frequency that the phase cancellation properties of the airframe coating simply didn't work against that long a wavelength.

Another is that they used bistatic radar, as you suggest.

The third is that they used a cunning Czech radar which doesn't look for where a primary skin paint is, but looks for where backscatter isn't. It scans the sky in 'bins' (or cells) and logs the natural backscatter for each bin. When a particular bin produces less backscatter, and if that reduced backscatter moves to the next bin and the next etc, you're looking at a radar-stealthy aircraft moving across the sky and which is blocking or reducing or diverting the received backscatter in that bit of sky.

That system is devilishly cunning because improving the radar-stealth properties of an improved aircraft makes it more conspicuous, not less. :ymdevil:

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Re: Vulcan

#170 Post by ian16th » Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:59 am

Its all about the computing power available to process/analyse the signal.

The days of using an operators calibrated eyeball are long gone.
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Re: Vulcan

#171 Post by Pontius Navigator » Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:37 pm

Ian. deviation, do you know anything about the Valiant Flood Flow? I think it was intended to increase cabin press in the event of pressurisation failure. When activated a panel the size of a dustbin lid was blown off. This could be slightly disconcerting to a fighter taking fuel. It was therefore disabled on the tankers.

Well that is what I think I learnt some 56 years ago. Any bells?

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Re: Vulcan

#172 Post by ian16th » Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:44 pm

Pontius Navigator wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:37 pm
Ian. deviation, do you know anything about the Valiant Flood Flow? I think it was intended to increase cabin press in the event of pressurisation failure. When activated a panel the size of a dustbin lid was blown off. This could be slightly disconcerting to a fighter taking fuel. It was therefore disabled on the tankers.

Well that is what I think I learnt some 56 years ago. Any bells?
Sorry no.

All of my 4+ years on Valiant's was on tankers, and all on the one Sqdn.

Feb 59 to Oct 62, and then Oct 64 to Feb 65, every day on 214.
Then I was demobbed the weekend the decision to scrap the Valiant's came through.
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Re: Vulcan

#173 Post by CharlieOneSix » Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:04 pm

Genuine or fake..? The group on the left seem to be looking at it with one guy maybe covering his ears? Caption says it was at a graduation ceremony at RAF Swinderby.
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Re: Vulcan

#174 Post by G-CPTN » Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:16 pm

It is possible that the Vulcan was 'coasting' (when it could be almost silent).

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Re: Vulcan

#175 Post by Boac » Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:20 pm

As long as he stuck on full power and rotated in time to blow all the hats off :))

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Re: Vulcan

#176 Post by ian16th » Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:45 pm

Isn't the Ensign at half mast?

Odd.
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Re: Vulcan

#177 Post by Pontius Navigator » Sat Nov 07, 2020 4:06 pm

No Ian, the command pendant is at the top with the Ensign on the gaff.

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Re: Vulcan

#178 Post by ian16th » Sat Nov 07, 2020 4:48 pm

Pontius Navigator wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 4:06 pm
No Ian, the command pendant is at the top with the Ensign on the gaff.
Thanks I see it now.
Looked odd at first.

Haven't raised an Ensign since 1958! At Orange.
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Re: Vulcan

#179 Post by G-CPTN » Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:00 pm


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Re: Vulcan

#180 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:26 pm

G-CPTN wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:00 pm
More cash needed to protect XH558.
Dig deep folks... what a tragedy it would be to lose this...

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