TGG, Dr Pleming is obviously looking to his salary. It won't fly again. There are lots of other Vulcans including indoor display. Duxford has a splendid exhibition, Hendon probably too.
Re: Vulcan
Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:39 pm
by tango15
I have a bit of a thing about this, for which I hope I will be forgiven. Some years ago, I did some consultancy work for Doncaster BC, who were responsible for the development of DSA airport. Peel owned it of course, but the local BC were trying to promote the airport and encourage new investment, for which of course there was a small pot of cash. We had a number of meetings with the VTS group as it was known at the time, but none of us were very impressed with either the organisation or presentation which they gave us, as they pitched for a share of the cash. Dr Pleming never attended any of the meetings, claiming he was too busy(!).
At the time, there was a hangar available, but they claimed there was another possible venue to put the aircraft, though we never believed this. We put forward a few basic ideas, but VTS threw them out and that, as they say, was the end of that. Naturally the hangars were capable of accommodating the Vulcan and one was being used for non-aviation purposes - actually by HMRC for storing contraband; there was a yacht parked outside during my tenure there - but that's another story.
I doubt whether DBC would object to the erection of a shelter for the Vulcan, but whether the money will be forthcoming for a new building is very doubtful, especially since she is no longer flying.
I have a bit of a thing about this, for which I hope I will be forgiven. Some years ago, I did some consultancy work for Doncaster BC, who were responsible for the development of DSA airport. Peel owned it of course, but the local BC were trying to promote the airport and encourage new investment, for which of course there was a small pot of cash. We had a number of meetings with the VTS group as it was known at the time, but none of us were very impressed with either the organisation or presentation which they gave us, as they pitched for a share of the cash. Dr Pleming never attended any of the meetings, claiming he was too busy(!).
At the time, there was a hangar available, but they claimed there was another possible venue to put the aircraft, though we never believed this. We put forward a few basic ideas, but VTS threw them out and that, as they say, was the end of that. Naturally the hangars were capable of accommodating the Vulcan and one was being used for non-aviation purposes - actually by HMRC for storing contraband; there was a yacht parked outside during my tenure there - but that's another story.
I doubt whether DBC would object to the erection of a shelter for the Vulcan, but whether the money will be forthcoming for a new building is very doubtful, especially since she is no longer flying.
Hmmh! The Goblin puts wallet back in his pocket and seeks further answers...
Stated aim...
With XH558 now permanently grounded, the Trust intends to remain at Doncaster Sheffield Airport, and make the Vulcan the focus of a new educational and heritage facility. This is in part due to the Trust's ongoing commitment to keep XH558 in good condition and use it for educational purposes, which they committed to do for 80 years as a condition of the 2005 Lottery funding. The first stage being to establish the Vulcan Aviation Academy & Heritage Centre. This will feature an academy building for 14–18 year olds, which will focus on "six areas of aviation skills: piloting, air traffic controls, airport ground operations, aircraft operations, cabin crew and aviation engineering". XH558 will be housed in an adjacent heritage centre, where it will be maintained so as to be able to perform regular fast taxi runs, the frequency of which would be funding dependent. With less engineering required to support the Vulcan as a taxiable exhibit, the Trust's associated engineering company was examining the possibility of setting up as an independent, CAA-approved, heritage aviation servicing operation. As a result of the new focus post-flight operations, the Trust's additional base at Hinckley was also to close.
Many, including myself, feel that XH558’s retirement to DRH is a death sentence, as now that it is no longer flying ‘558 will be no more significant than any other Vulcan in the country. It will lose its support base as those that donated to see it fly will see no point in further funding, and when the owners of DRH one day come knocking to collect the hangar rental costs to find the Trust cannot pay, it would seem that this incredible piece of British engineering will be off to the scrap heap. The cost of moving XH558 to Bruntingthorpe or any other airfield by road when it becomes clear that DRH was a mistake will be prohibitively expensive and in all likelihood will reduce it to a static exhibition. I am incredibly disappointed that the Vulcan to the Sky Trust has not seen the error of its ways; my opinion, one that I share with many, is that XH558 should have been retired to Bruntingthorpe, where it was given its last lease of life. It is a shame that this decision seems not to have been made for the good of the people; those that have travelled across the country to see it or have waited with bated breath just to catch a glimpse of that unique delta-wing shape, seem to have been ignored, and regrettably I feel that the future of XH558 looks bleak.
However, whether or not you have agreed with the Trust and the way that it has operated XH558 over the last 7 airshow seasons, you cannot help but admit that the UK airshow scene will be poorer for the loss of this fantastic example of British ingenuity and engineering magnificence. There are thousands of people nationwide who will have had no previous interest in aircraft or airshows, who have been enchanted by the Vulcan’s distinctive appeal. Indeed, some of my happiest experiences at airshows so far have been watching and marvelling at the Vulcan, a living, breathing example of Cold War brute force; and whilst many amongst us worry for XH558’s future as a relic in a commercial airport, we must focus on the many happy memories that we have been left with.
TGG, Dr Pleming is obviously looking to his salary. It won't fly again. There are lots of other Vulcans including indoor display. Duxford has a splendid exhibition, Hendon probably too.
The Vulcan at Duxford is in good nick, spent a very interesting 20 minutes talking to one of the aircraft's ex-pilots there some years back but it is not in the pristine condition Delta Lady is.
Re: Vulcan
Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:32 pm
by G-CPTN
I am pleased that I was able to take my son to Farnborough in 2008 for his belated 30th birthday treat and let him see what the Vulcan was all about - and we shared appearances over the following few years.
Now, of course, Farnborough is no more as a public display of aviation developments - an event that stretched back to my earliest memories of aircraft.
The A380 was also demonstrated at F'boro in 2008 - an amazing display.
TGG, Dr Pleming is obviously looking to his salary. It won't fly again. There are lots of other Vulcans including indoor display. Duxford has a splendid exhibition, Hendon probably too.
The Vulcan at Duxford is in good nick, spent a very interesting 20 minutes talking to one of the aircraft's ex-pilots there some years back but it is not in the pristine condition Delta Lady is.
Not to mention the one at Woodford Heritage Centre, which is being looked after properly by people who know it well. There is a long-term plan to put it under cover, too.
Re: Vulcan
Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:17 am
by TheGreenGoblin
Really sorry to see that Andy Leitch's, ex RAF crew, Vulcan site www.avrovulcan.org.uk is non est. He was a prime mover in the XH558 story and his site was superb. Its palimpsest can be found here...
Vulcan had many remarkable qualities, but being "green" wasn't one of them.
Re: Vulcan
Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:25 am
by Pontius Navigator
Hand it to Pleming, he has made a good career out of 558. Should ask Dyson for a handout. Right up his street and by his backdoor even.
Re: Vulcan
Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:01 am
by TheGreenGoblin
Give Pleming and his team their due, if it hadn't been for their drive and energy XH558 would never have flown again as it did, giving millions of people a great deal of pleasure and cause to be proud of Britain, her aviation heritage and her engineers. It seems, to this foreign Johnny at least, a very British trait to carp and throw brickbats after the fact.
I hope a proper home is found for XH558, although I recognise she will never fly again. The site in Doncaster seems sub-optimal to my mind, not least because it is fairly inaccessible to a majority of the population, is an active airfield and is not ideally suited to housing what will effectively be a museum.
Give Pleming and his team their due, if it hadn't been for their drive and energy XH558 would never have flown again as it did, giving millions of people a great deal of pleasure and cause to be proud of Britain, her aviation heritage and her engineers. It seems, to this foreign Johnny at least, a very British trait to carp and throw brickbats after the fact.
I hope a proper home is found for XH558, although I recognise she will never fly again. The site in Doncaster seems sub-optimal to my mind, not least because it is fairly inaccessible to a majority of the population, is an active airfield and is not ideally suited to housing what will effectively be a museum.
Fair comment, GG. One should not be too disparaging about the efforts of VTS; I enjoyed the fruits of their labours on several occasions, and was grateful for them. Your point about location is well made and we also felt that when you look at the population distribution in the immediate area, especially east and north of the area, it isn't exactly dense. There was a plan to put a spur from the M180 straight into DSA but afaik, this never happened. The hotel next to the airport was one of the quietest I have ever stayed in and on a few occasions I was told that I was the only guest!
My gripe with those whom I met was that they didn't seem what Roger Bacon would have called 'Total Aviation Persons' and were in it just for the money or the glory. Not the ideal combination for such and expensive and complicated project. I too hope a proper home is found for her, but I fear the worst.
Re: Vulcan
Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:42 pm
by Pontius Navigator
T15, that was the point.
I think Doncaster was picked as that is where the aircraft is. To move it to Elvington would require either a special licence or taking it piece by piece.
Ian, would You want to visit a museum at a prison? Or was that the point?
Pretty gloomy news vis. a vis. Bruntingthorpe methinks...
Following the completion of the acquisition, the Aviation business and the Cold War Jets Museum at Bruntingthorpe were closed and will not re-open.
“We recognise that this concern some aviation enthusiasts, and also appreciate the historic value of a number of the aircraft currently located on the site. However, it has never been the intention of Cox Automotive UK to scrap any of these planes and, as part of our deal, CWL is contractually responsible for these aircraft not Cox Automotive UK.
“Cox Automotive UK is working with Mr David Walton, one of the previous owners/directors of CWL, who is responsible for all matters relating to Aviation on the Bruntingthorpe site. Mr Walton is also responsible for engaging and working with any stakeholders on the site who may have been impacted as a consequence of the sale to Cox Automotive. Clearly, this is a complex and sensitive process given the number of aircraft on the site, and the diverse ownership of these.
“We are unable to comment on any specific aircraft or individual stakeholders impacted at this time, and this is being progressed by Mr Walton. However, we understand that Mr Walton is currently investigating the construction of new buildings to house some of the aviation collection and to safeguard their future on land on the Bruntingthorpe site that is excluded from the Cox Automotive UK lease.
“Any progress or updates on aviation issues at Bruntingthorpe will be released by Mr Walton. However, anyone wanting further information about aviation-related queries at Bruntingthorpe are encouraged to contact Mr Walton direct on dave@airfield-storage.com.
“Cox Automotive UK is also engaging with stakeholders on site and ensuring that access to the site is appropriately maintained and managed in line with current Government guidance.”