Photo couldn't have been for real. Lineys in white denims, really. Ours were a dirty off/khaki colour with hydraulic and glycol stains. Plus I think it's a B1. The hatch door seems very high for a B2.
Photo couldn't have been for real. Lineys in white denims, really. Ours were a dirty off/khaki colour with hydraulic and glycol stains. Plus I think it's a B1. The hatch door seems very high for a B2.
When was the kink put on the leading edge? I thought it came with the B2, or was it earlier?
Re: Vulcan
Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:25 am
by Pontius Navigator
It is indeed a Mk1, not even a 1a. They did have a link though the Mk 2 had a more pronounced one and a greater span too.
I think the Mk 1 was the fastest one too with 0.98 IMN.
The Nav looks a bit scruffy too, not wearing his SD Hat.
Whites usually signify some demonstration scramble but it's odd that the plotter had to carry his Nav bag as it would normally be preloaded.
Note the sqn cdr's pennant which suggests early on with Mk 1s in sqn service.
In that article or is curious he got the engine start system wrong.
The palouste was right but never a cartridge start. The aircraft 6,000 psi air bottles which could provide sufficient air for 5 engine starts or a mass rapid and a further single start.
A mass rapid could start all engines simultaneously but until they spooled up there were no instrument displays. I
On one attempted start instead of the expected pow followed by the typical engine noise we had a poof and silence. We switched to a different engine and again poof.
The chief was bemused so I piped up "is there any air?". He said there was as it had been topped up, but checked anyway. No air!
Re: Vulcan
Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:25 am
by Boac
You mean Checklist Item 1 for Crew Chief on air start is not
"Check air pressure"?
In that article or is curious he got the engine start system wrong.
The palouste was right but never a cartridge start. The aircraft 6,000 psi air bottles which could provide sufficient air for 5 engine starts or a mass rapid and a further single start.
A mass rapid could start all engines simultaneously but until they spooled up there were no instrument displays. I
On one attempted start instead of the expected pow followed by the typical engine noise we had a poof and silence. We switched to a different engine and again poof.
The chief was bemused so I piped up "is there any air?". He said there was as it had been topped up, but checked anyway. No air!
So no Palouste in the latter case? Surely it would be better to use the Palouste and keep the bottles charged, if the former was available?
Re: Vulcan
Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 10:08 am
by Boac
I think the early B1s were possibly started by electric motors and the Palouste came in when the B2 arrived? The problem with Palouste start was as with the Sparrows, if there isn't one where you land........................, hence the 'air'. We got round that with an occasional (extremely rare) wind-milling start from any passing friendly jet.
I could never understand why the Vulcan APU was not modified to produce air.
Re: Vulcan
Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2021 1:58 pm
by Pontius Navigator
I can't remember the Mk1 details except that they had Sim Start were the crew chief could start engines from outside. On one QRA practise, as the crew approached the aircraft the CC started the engines. When he went to unlock the door the key broke in the lock.......
Re: Vulcan
Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 12:58 am
by boing
The starter panel was on the left wall of the aircraft a little to the rear of the Captain's seat which involved an awkward twist of the upper body until you got used to it. Of course, by this time you were almost facing backwards which explains, but does not justify, why, on my first trip in the left seat when the Crewchief said "Clear to start #4 engine" I pushed the starter for #1. Well, after all, in my almost rearward facing position it was the engine to my to my right.
Since the Chief was standing under the starter exhaust for the #1 engine at the time, well clear of the #4 starter, he had a few choice words to say which were fully justified. The torrent of hot gas down his neck must have been quite a surprise.
I can't remember the Mk1 details except that they had Sim Start were the crew chief could start engines from outside. On one QRA practise, as the crew approached the aircraft the CC started the engines. When he went to unlock the door the key broke in the lock.......
So all four engines running and the crew standing outside with a broken key in the lock! So who assumed the role of Quick Reaction Lock Picker?
Who carried the key normally, and given, that the aircraft were locked, within the context of operational security procedures, presumably, who carried the key in the first place?
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Re: Vulcan
Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 8:28 am
by Boac
This 'scramble Sim Start' - did it start all 4 together or in sequence?
Re: Vulcan
Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 8:42 am
by Pontius Navigator
BOAC, probably, as the name implies, simultaneously. I watched a Mk 1 Scramble at Finningley. One aircraft definitely didn't get all 4 going. Airborne on 3 just with the 4th in the climb. The just refers to the 3rd lighting after the roll.
On display scrambles we always carried a low fuel load.
Re: Vulcan
Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 8:50 am
by Pontius Navigator
TGG, the second question was how long will it run before flaming out?
Crew chiefs carried the key. I imagine there was a key rack in the line squadrons and the CC drawing the key. I suspect most crew chiefs and captains also carried a personal key.
As I have mentioned before, Halfords in Lincoln carried a larger stock of Vulcan keys. All Vulcan keys were FA501.
I don't know if Mr HP had bought a similar job lot for the Victor.
Re: Vulcan
Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 8:50 am
by TheGreenGoblin
Vulcan B 2s had self contained simultaneous rapid starting systems for all four engines. The captain moved all the throttles to the 50 per cent RPM position, selected the master start switch ‘on’ and pressed the master Rapid Start button. Four air storage cylinders, charged to 3300 psi, were bulkhead on each side. These provided air through a pressure reducing value to a combuster unit on each engine. As the latter wound up, the alternators came on line and the flying controls started automatically. Then the instrument gyros ran up, all within 20 seconds, and it was all systems go.
Marshalls of Cambridge came up with an ingenious system of elastics and levers to disconnect the ground electrics and intercom. Spring-loading took care of the pitot head and Q-feel air intake covers as the aircraft moved forward. Afterwards, all the Vulcans had to do was to roll forwards onto the runway and lift off in quick succession.
Vulcan B 1/B 1As did not have an internal rapid start capability, so Bomber Command engineering staff officer Sqn Ldr C Dixon designed the ‘Simstart’ trolley that, with its array of batteries, enabled an aircraft crew chief to start all four engines virtually simultaneously while the crew strapping in.
As told by Brookes, there is a classic tale of the fiery Wg Cdr Arthur Griffiths and his No 101 Sqn crew who set their B 1A to combat readiness, locked the entrance door and went off to the crewroom. When the hooter blew, they rushed out to the pan, where the crew chief had already started the engines via the Simstart trolley. “Give me the door key,” shouted ‘Bootsie’ Griffiths to his co-pilot, Tony Woodford. “I haven’t got it,” said Tony, “You must have it.” “No I **** well haven’t. You must have it,” and so it went while the jet, four engines turning, strained at the chocks ant tried to break free. Finally, the crew chief had to use a fire axe to break and restore order.
In that case then, the key would have been on a chain. In addition to the MBF ID card there was a QRA Captain's card on the chain. This would signify to the policeman that he was the authorised captain.
I believe that, rather than the broken key, was the story. Regarding the fire axe I suspect that to be false.
Bootsie was my stn cdr at Waddo. Fiery certainly.
50 Sqn was the Sqn furthest from Ops and at the time commanded by the amiable Mike Bradley, taller than Boots IIRC. He was a frequent visitor to Boots office and usually worked up a fair speed by the time he arrived. It was suspected it was usually sans coffee.
During an alert my standing instructions were to allocate Sqn COs as high up the Orbat as possible to get them from under Bootsie feet.
Re: Vulcan
Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:27 am
by Boac
"Tony Woodford" - nice chap but nearly drove 9 Gnats into High Wycombe's houses' TV aerials on a big wing-ding. I recall seeing a couple of Yagis and a High Gain close up and looking in some bedroom windows. His section broke up at that point and one, a Lightning (?Terry Adcock?), engaged reheat to get out of the melee and climbed to 30k+ in the London TMA!
Poor Terry died subsequently at Portmoak tugging when the glider tipped him into a vertical dive.
Re: Vulcan
Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:30 am
by Pontius Navigator
Do you remember the Spanish display team disaster? Leader skimmed a ridge.......
Re: Vulcan
Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2021 11:40 am
by Boac
Luckily Frank Hoare managed to extract us (with difficulty) with no physical damage.
My memory bank is fairly full of 'disasters'! I do not recall that one. Lesson 1 in formation flying is to develop the Marty Feldman eyes - might have helped El Spanish and the Thunderbirds?
"Tony Woodford" - nice chap but nearly drove 9 Gnats into High Wycombe's houses' TV aerials on a big wing-ding. I recall seeing a couple of Yagis and a High Gain close up and looking in some bedroom windows. His section broke up at that point and one, a Lightning (?Terry Adcock?), engaged reheat to get out of the melee and climbed to 30k+ in the London TMA!
Poor Terry died subsequently at Portmoak tugging when the glider tipped him into a vertical dive.
When I was in Cardiff, there were two old crusty British types, both members of the local flying club, one an ex-Naval officer and the other ex-RAF, who unbeknownst to each other, were courting the same woman in Shoreham, simultaneously. Apparently they had both met her at a lunch at the Farnborough airshow, each one thinking he was the the sole point of her affection and other charms. They both used to fly down from Cardiff to see her, she presumably ensuring that they their visits didn't coincide. Anyway to cut a long story short, the whole amusing (to me anyway) situation came into sharp public focus when one of the silly old duffers infringed quite egregiously in the London TMA and the CAA were on the phone to ask questions as to who was flying the club aircraft, and it became clear to all and sundry, after a bit of investigation, as to why there were so many Shoreham visits by both of these two gentlemen. To be fair to the erring pilot, he admitted his mistake and given this honesty, and his otherwise unblemished record to date, he wasn't even fined by the CAA. The good thing about it was that after they realised that they had been duped, they took it well and bought each other a drink and became good friends thereafter.
His section broke up at that point and one, a Lightning (?Terry Adcock?), engaged reheat to get out of the melee and climbed to 30k+ in the London TMA!