Fact or Fiction...

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TheGreenGoblin
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Fact or Fiction...

#1 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sat Dec 12, 2020 10:47 am

I had not been able to find evidence for this story of two gunners flying a damaged B17 and landing it back at base.



but it may be partly factual it seems...

https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/2019/ ... ailgunner/

Just purchased Larry Steven's book...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=9781481997 ... inkCode=qs

Will revert with what he says about this tale as told in the video.
Though you remain
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."

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Re: Fact or Fiction...

#2 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sat Dec 12, 2020 12:39 pm

Larry Steven's self published book is simply written and is all the better for the basic honesty in it. These guys were extremely brave and really mere babes under arms...
There were two crews of us in our hut.  We met the other crew in the morning.  They were ending their tour and had perhaps four or five missions left.  They had many a scary story to relate to us, including the first raid on Berlin by U.S. bombers, which was March 4, 1944.  Because of weather, all groups were recalled; however, the 95th lead commander ignored, or pretended to not hear the recall and continued on with the mission.  The clouds over the target were so intense they broke up the formation.  As their ship came out of a cloud, they found themselves directly behind a B-17 and they were caught in its prop wash.  Immediately, they went into a flat spin at 19,000 feet.

While in the flat spin, the waist gunner said he was stuck to the roof, along with his parachute and a box of ammo.  His mind kept saying, “Grab the chute and bail out.” but he could not move because of centrifugal force.  The pilot and copilot finally were able to push the controls forward at 5,000 feet and brought their ship out of the flat spin.  They brought the ship home intact and with all their crew, although the rivets were pulled and the sheet metal wrinkled.  The plane was scrapped. The waist gunner lost it and became known as “Flakkie.”  If anyone would come up behind him and clap his hands, “Flakkie” would throw his hands up and scream. So, of course, they did!
Stevens, Larry. It Only Takes One: Memoirs of a Tail Gunner . Unknown. Kindle Edition.
Though you remain
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."

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Re: Fact or Fiction...

#3 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sat Dec 12, 2020 12:46 pm

Some fascinating insights from the book.
Our ship, Fireball #231876.  Time logged: eight hours and forty-five minutes. Our group position: Tail-Ass Charlie or Tail-End Charlie, meaning the last aircraft in formation. Opposition was light flak, no enemy fighters.  We survived our first mission. When we exited our plane, we were picked up by a 4 x 4 truck and taken to a debriefing room.  There we were given a shot of Scotch and asked if we saw anything unusual.  I commented I saw a B-17 at our altitude, with no markings and out of gun range.  This would become a common occurrence for most all our missions.  The Germans captured our ships, then flew them at our altitude and related our air speed and altitude to their flak gunners below.  We became sitting ducks with that kind of information.
Sunday, August 6, 1944. Took off this morning on a shuttle mission to Russia called, “Frantic.” Bombed an airdrome at Rahmel (Gdynia) in the Polish Corridor. Strangely, seven American P-47s flew over us clearly marked with German swastikas. They were near enough to be fired on but neither side fired. I never did hear if they were good guys or bad.
Stevens, Larry. It Only Takes One: Memoirs of a Tail Gunner . Unknown. Kindle Edition.
Though you remain
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."

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Re: Fact or Fiction...

#4 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sat Dec 12, 2020 1:08 pm

Larry Steven's own description of the mission story so badly mangled in that video above...
Mission 32 - Trzebinia, Poland back to Poltava Monday, August 7, 1944. Took off from Poltava, Russia at 0600. The trip to the target was uneventful, except for moderate flak over the target. The target was an oil refinery at Trzebinia, Poland. After bombs away, I watched the smoke rise to our altitude of 23,000 feet. Our bombs must have been right on. I also saw red flak and a few German fighters, but they did not attack us.

As we returned from Germany into Russian territory, our copilot, Ruby, announced, “We’re at 10,000 feet. I’m off oxygen.” I slipped back from my tail guns and took off my helmet and oxygen mask. I massaged my ears, put on my head set and heard the pilot say to the copilot, “Grab it Ruby!! Grab it!!” I looked back over the tail and saw we had pulled away from the group, and we were in a dive. I also saw two chutes go past my tail and got the feeling of, “Oh *****, we are abandoning the aircraft.” I looked forward past the tail wheel into the waist, but only saw heavy smoke. I immediately put on my chute and scooted past the tail into the waist. Leo Makelky, the ball turret gunner had opened the waist window to clear the smoke. The aircraft seemed to be stable. I asked Leo, “Who bailed out?” Leo had not seen what I had seen, so he said, “Nobody.”

In the meantime, the waist gunner, Langford, seeing all the smoke, grabbed a fire extinguisher and went through the bomb bay to the front of the ship with no parachute. Both the top turret gunner and Langford put out the fire with portable extinguishers. We had had an oxygen blowout fire at the base of the top turret located at the transfer valves. The cause of the blowout was the constant rubbing of our oxygen hoses and the top turret being rotated in azimuth, eventually wearing out the hoses. When the explosion and fire occurred, it sent a sheet of flames between the pilot and copilot into the nose of the ship where our navigator and bombardier were located. After thirty-two missions of combat flying, our sturdy leader panicked and left his seat. I will not judge him for this maneuver because panic is a moment’s notice; no one knows when it could happen. Fortunately, two crewmembers and the copilot brought the ship under control. They put out the fire and saved us all from bailing out. Those of us in the rear of the ship knew nothing of what was happening up front. Our copilot, Ruby Keeler, returned the ship into formation and nothing more was said. Upon landing, nothing more was discussed, but it was evident that the pilot and copilot were at odds. The next morning, our pilot, Dancison, asked me to check out one of the previous shuttle run planes, one that had been bombed and abandoned because of the German bombing in June. A jeep arrived and took me to an aircraft. I inspected the plane starting from the tail, moving to the waist, then the radio room through to the pilot’s compartment. There had to be three to four inches of dirt on the floor and no maintenance had been done since the June of ’44 bombing. It was a mess. As I stepped out of the waist door, a jeep drove up with officers from another crew. Their pilot asked me if we were claiming the plane. I answered, “If you want it, it’s yours. I think our plane, Full House, can be made to fly.” I returned to our pilot and said, “Another crew wanted the plane, and frankly there was no maintenance on it and I did not feel it airworthy.” Danny, our pilot, thanked me and somehow our plane was made to fly through spare parts from the June shuttle. The nose door was replaced, but the oxygen system did not get fixed, so we used “walk-around” oxygen bottles for our flight to Italy.
Stevens, Larry. It Only Takes One: Memoirs of a Tail Gunner . Unknown. Kindle Edition.
Though you remain
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."

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Re: Fact or Fiction...

#5 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sat Dec 12, 2020 1:09 pm

Since we no longer had a navigator or bombardier, due to the fire and bailout, our pilot,
Stevens, Larry. It Only Takes One: Memoirs of a Tail Gunner . Unknown. Kindle Edition.

That video is busted as bordering on fiction.

Sad when these video editors have to mangle stories and create contra-factual myths when no myths are needed. Totally disrespectful of these brave crews.

When we returned to Horham, England, Morrison and Sherwood also returned from their circuitous trip from Poltava. My first question to Morrison was, “What happened when you met up with the Russians?” Morrison related, while on decent in his chute, he saw a Russian outpost in the middle of nowhere. A line of trucks left the outpost and the first truck pulled up to him as he got out of his harness. Morrison’s first reaction was to go to his escape kit under his jacket, where words could be translated from English to Russian.. For example, “I am an American. That’s a B-17. I am your ally.” As he reached for his escape kit, he realized his motions could be interpreted as reaching for a 45 pistol hidden under his jacket. With that thought, he threw up his hands and said, “Americonski, Americonski!!” The Russian laughed and said in perfect English, “I’m a graduate of University of Michigan. I know those are B-17s. I returned home and was conscripted into the Russian Army.” Breakfast for Morrison and Sherwood was before 6:00 a.m. They bailed out at about 2:30 p.m. The Russians decided they would prepare a banquet for their guests, but it did not take place until 7:00 p.m. At the banquet, one of the Russians stood up and said, “A toast to the Americans!” Each plate had a rather large glass filled with Vodka, so Morrison and Sherwood responded and drank as the Russians. Then the second Russian stood up and said, “A toast to the Americans,” and then the third until Morrison could no longer recall the situation, but a good time was had by all. The following day, arrangements were made to return to Poltava and then back to England. It took two weeks, but they were returned to England safe and sound.
Stevens, Larry. It Only Takes One: Memoirs of a Tail Gunner . Unknown. Kindle Edition.
Though you remain
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."

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Re: Fact or Fiction...

#6 Post by Pontius Navigator » Sat Dec 12, 2020 2:57 pm

TGG, a moving tale from Duxford.

In the then new US Building, in an annex, was a cabinet containing 30 bomb safety pins, each with a small label detailing date and target. These were collected by the bomb aoner of one of the crews. What I thought was the confidence that he would survive the 30 missions.

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Re: Fact or Fiction...

#7 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:12 am

Pontius Navigator wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 2:57 pm
TGG, a moving tale from Duxford.

In the then new US Building, in an annex, was a cabinet containing 30 bomb safety pins, each with a small label detailing date and target. These were collected by the bomb aoner of one of the crews. What I thought was the confidence that he would survive the 30 missions.
The US exhibition is very well laid out PN. I will seek that cabinet out whenever the museum is open open again.
Though you remain
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."

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