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CharlieOneSix
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Avpin

#1 Post by CharlieOneSix » Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:21 pm

om15 wrote:My best mate was an engine fitter, he severely damaged his hand after a function test of the avpin system went wrong and the pipe exploded in his hand.

om15's above post on the "Why are you here?" thread stirred the memory cells. The Wessex HAS Mk1 had an Avpin starter. What a lethal fuel that was, not needing oxygen to burn. Whenever it was moved on Ark Royal the tannoy used to blare out that Avpin was being moved between decks and smoking in that area was forbidden. If we went on detachment the winchman used to have to sit in the door of the Wessex facing outwards with the Avpin container between his legs. If the solitary engine failed then his job was to throw it overboard so we didn't crash with it on the helicopter.

Many a young Wessex co-pilot was warned that if the Avpin starter motor exploded - as it often did when the cartridge was fired - then if he didn't want the Captain's footprints on his face then he better get out of his window pretty damn quick. The starter was below the Captain's exit. The Avpin got blocked in the 'U' pipe at the base of the Avpin tank, this blockage had the result of blowing the front of the helicopter up!!! Fortunately the Wessex HAS Mk3 had a more sensible compressed air start system.

The Wessex Mk1 at Duxford (XS863) was retired from Boscombe Down because the Avpin starter exploded and with the age of the helicopter the fuselage damage was deemed not worth repairing.

One of the most impressive sights was that of a line up of Sea Hawks doing a synchronised start with the plume of smoke being exhausted upwards as each pilot pressed the tit. That - I think I'm correct in saying - was also a cartridge initiated Avpin system but I have my doubts now as I'm surprised that Avpin is still in use with the RNHF aircraft...anyone know?

[bbvideo=560,315]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evds2fgo0_8[/bbvideo]
806 Sea Hawks on Eagle .jpg
806 Sea Hawks on Eagle .jpg (153.89 KiB) Viewed 1602 times
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om15
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Re: Avpin

#2 Post by om15 » Fri Jan 08, 2016 7:29 pm

I think that the photo of the Sea Hawks shows a cartridge system, the smoke indicates the cartridge has been fired, rather than an avpin system, two separate methods, the avpin system was electrically initiated, didn't smoke but residual burning fuel would be dumped from the exhaust, it was the job of the ground man to pad this out using a huge asbestos glove.
I seem to recall that one of the problems faced by the restoration/preservation teams at Bruntingthorpe is that avpin is no longer manufactured. The Avons on the Canberras were cartridge systems.

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Re: Avpin

#3 Post by CharlieOneSix » Fri Jan 08, 2016 7:45 pm

Thanks for that om15 - I had a feeling I was wrong as there was never any smoke when starting a Wessex.
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Re: Avpin

#4 Post by om15 » Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:38 am

Interesting photo of the flight deck in action, it doesn't appear that anyone is wearing ear defenders or high vis, and it looks like two or three properly uniformed crew are wearing hats.
I mentioned the avpin after start procedure of padding out the exhaust flame from the outlet wearing a large asbestos glove, overseas this was carried out by the ground man only wearing shorts and boots, no shirt or protective overalls.
I came across a thread on another forum last night regarding the Lightning restoration team at Bruntingthorpe, they are/have modified an Avon to use an electric start system and have removed the avpin starter.

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Re: Avpin

#5 Post by CharlieOneSix » Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:06 am

I suppose that photo was taken in the late 50's when Elf and Safety hadn't been invented. I know when I joined the RN in the early 60's we weren't provided with ear protection whilst firing Bren guns etc and as a result I've had tinnitus since I was 18. I also don't recall having ear defenders available whilst walking around dispersals at Culdrose or elsewhere - two fingers in ears had to suffice.

The MOD realised the error of their ways and in '93 there was a queue of ex-military helicopter pilots up here in Aberdeen having their ears tested at a nominated centre to take advantage of a time limited compensation scheme - like many other I recieved several thousand pounds as a one off War Pension settlement for my hearing loss. Thankfully it was not severe enough to result in me failing my six monthly licence medicals. All this leading to me having two hearing aids now after a lifetime sitting a few feet from two turbine engines with inadequate headsets until we got excellent Peltor ones just before I retired.
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Re: Avpin

#6 Post by hico-p » Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:40 pm

Yes C16 re tinnitus: - you lucky bu**er - I have it too, of course, but being on a different planet, (and deceased as you thought!!) never managed to claim my entitlement.
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Re: Avpin

#7 Post by Alisoncc » Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:48 pm

CharlieOneSix wrote:I also don't recall having ear defenders available whilst walking around dispersals at Culdrose or elsewhere - two fingers in ears had to suffice.......The MOD realised the error of their ways and in '93 there was a queue of ex-military helicopter pilots up here in Aberdeen having their ears tested at a nominated centre to take advantage of a time limited compensation scheme.

No such devices available on Vulcan QRA pans at Finningley in the early sixties. When four Bristol Siddeley Olympus donks kicked off a few feet immediately above your head you definitely knew about it. Enthusiasts speak of the Vulcan "roar", wonder how many would be so enthusiastic if one roared that close.
Rev Mother Bene Gesserit.

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Re: Avpin

#8 Post by CharlieOneSix » Sat Jan 09, 2016 11:55 pm

hico-p wrote:Yes C16 re tinnitus: - you lucky bu**er - I have it too, of course, but being on a different planet, (and deceased as you thought!!) never managed to claim my entitlement.

Yes, thinking you were deceased was a bit of a cock-up.....but you'll have to blame your former compatriots in BA Helicopters for giving me that duff gen. The email from the dead 14 years later was a hell of a surprise! :))
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Re: Avpin

#9 Post by ian16th » Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:35 pm

Hunters also had Avpin starters. There were no such luxuries as asbestos gloves for putting out fires.
The normal tool for the job was the standard RAF Beret! I kid you not.

I now have hearing aids in both ears. When I told the ENT specialist that I worked on jet a/c for may years without ear defenders, he replied, 'That will have buggered up your hearing'.

Being an ex-pat, when I heard about the compensation scheme, it was too late to make a claim :(
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Re: Avpin

#10 Post by om15 » Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:45 pm

Yes I remember blokes using their berets to put out the burning residue from exhausts, I see to remember that I used ear defenders in the RAF but less so in civvie environments, twenty years on Darts must have done some damage, I think my hearing is still reasonable, although my wife does claim that I don't respond when being addressed occasionally.

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Re: Avpin

#11 Post by Boac » Mon Jan 11, 2016 6:21 pm

Was that 'addressed', 'undressed' or 'dressed'................?

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