Changes to Attract New Members

[probes]

dunno (Sorry, Alison!)... I don't like "A Very Good Aviation Site" - the decision of 'goodness' should be with the reader? AVGAS sounds like ROSGAS or what these Russian gas-companies are. NOTAMS is a good word, containing some fairly common ones (not, am) and interesting enough to cause curiosity, if one does not know what it is. I'm still for this one.

[Boac]

Granted that this has grown out of all expectation, Alison, and credit indeed to you for that, I have a few points:-

Yes, we need to improve 'search' visibility - Meta tags still work although other things are important like content. I cannot repeat RGB's 'success' with an 'aviation forum' search - I gave up on P4 of Google. Submitting an XML sitemap to Google will hurry things along. Dare I say it, but the TOP meta tags take some beating Limeygirl was absolutely right with 'what do we have to lose'?

I support the need to change the 'sub-text' - as you say, we are past the 'stick it to TOP' phase and almost 'requiring' a TOP 'badge of honour' to join has now reversed from a positive into a negative. Perhaps a small font block, below a more suitable spiel, explaining the origin and raison d'etre will be of use to anyone interested.

The last thing I want to see is the site slide down the slope into a 90% JB type site - if that is the way it goes, then that would be the choice (of you) and the majority, but it will become a marginal interest site - and very difficult to control. I appreciate how thin the ice can get under your feet.

I have 'invited' a few 'pro's' over but they have taken a look at it and decided it is not for them. Getting this sort of folk on board is the pivot.

How you re-arrange I do not know - it is, in the time-honoured expression, 'your train set'. My experience is mil and civil piloting. I would love to start a vibrant aviation thread, but I know there are so few who would pick up on it - no more than a dozen, I reckon, and that it would rapidly be swamped in 'New Posts' by the trolling circus and its supporters. How about we leave the circus to fester?

It is good to see such interest in this topic.

[probes]

I have 'invited' a few 'pro's' over but they have taken a look at it and decided it is not for them. Getting this sort of folk on board is the pivot.

then you probably know what should be changed, too?
The trolling, yes, but what else?

[Boac]

then you probably know what should be changed

- well, horses for courses as they say (especially in French restaurants ) but I know the onslaught of mainly 'JB activity' is putting many off. However, as I said, if that is what the 'majority' want, so be it, but I see stagnation if not decline. I do not think the trolling would affect the interest, as long as it is 'in its box' - it is the lack of 'professional' input, I think. Take a sample of 'latest posts' and see how much of real interest there is for serious posters to involve with. How many, for example, ATC folk, how many medics, how many computer geeks, engineers etc would want to take part? Do we need them, is, of course, a valid question?

I will say it again - this must be a site for the users, and Alison has made it so. I have no wish to 'impose' any changes here, although I would like to see them for the future of this site. We are exploring the 'way forward'. Forward implies movement and not stagnation or decline. This site has lasted far longer than any of its predecessors spawned from TOP, which is a real feather in Alison's cap.

[ian16th]

I would change my avatar thingy but ian16th has beaten me to it with the wheel disc.

Entryism!

Seniority has it perks

[Fenland787]

So I guess I'm a sort-of newbie, so what got me to 'TOP' and thus eventually to this site, and what am I looking for?

A brief(ish) history:
Despite a lifelong interest in aviation, I only became involved directly about 15 years back when my (small) company which specialized in industrial process control over Ethernet was approached by a (somewhat larger) airplane company based in the Seattle area as they wanted to explore using our technology on the late lamented MRA4 program, our bit of that was very successful indeed - shame about the ending - but that led on to the design and development of equipment for a range of aircraft and changed the direction of the company somewhat!

Life moved on as it does, through twists and turns and somehow I ended up in a sort of lead role in developing and implementing a new technology to be used on an up-coming not very metallic airplane, this then took over my life for some years.

I found TOP while looking around the interweb for something else and thought it interesting and popped in from time to time just to see what was going on but didn't really follow much. I only started posting on TOP once the airplane was through certification and my role (and thus my job!) were over.

I guess that was a bit of a rude awakening, I am most decidedly not a 'social media' user, or indeed a fan of the concept of Farcebook and it's kin, so I guess I was unprepared for what takes place. I had assumed that a forum full of fellow professionals would be a place where sensible, mature and informed discussion and argument could take place in an atmosphere of (mostly?) mutual respect even if views differed and where one could learn a lot from people who had far greater experience and knowledge than onself.

To some extent that was true, but on the few threads I felt I had real knowledge and/or experience of and thought I could add something useful, I could scarce hear myself think for the sound of axes being ground by people whose hidden agendas were not very well hidden and who, clearly felt they could 'talk to', and 'talk of', people in a manner that could well have left them on the floor with a bloody nose if they tried it face to face. I, personally, was not a victim of this - much - but I found the whole atmosphere toxic and so withdrew - life is stressful enough, I don't need to surround myself with any more!

I must admit to being 'hooked' by TRABB though, the eclectic mix of personalities, humour, 'running gags' and vast range of life experiences and knowledge that feed into it is wonderful to behold! That thread, from a coded reference to this site, led me here.

So what what do I hope this will become? Well I guess I refer the honorable lady the the answer I gave earlier:

"a place where sensible, mature and informed discussion and argument could take place in an atmosphere of (mostly?) mutual respect even if views differed and where one could learn a lot from people who had far greater experience and knowledge than oneself."

How do you achieve that? That just comes down to the inherent culture of the site, and that can only come, I think, from the self-discipline those who participate - I don't think there is any way to legislate for it, and other perhaps in the case of extreme out and out 'trolling', banning people who's views are contrary to one's own on a specific subject runs a risk of chucking the baby out with the bathwater. Who is to decide what views are, or are not, acceptable in any society other than the society itself?

Well my two pen'th anyway.

[probes]

Wise words, Fenland and Boac.
As for " I only started posting on TOP once the airplane was through certification and my role (and thus my job!) were over." - probably that's the liberating factor, so to say - after all, can one discuss current jobs www these days? Therefore the 'mature' aspect seems really reasonable.

I've been feeling that I can't get an overview any more (too much to read, too little time) - would it be possible to get the 'active threads' for specific sub-forums? And I agree JB should go somewhere 'lower', but not 'lesser relevant', as one surely needs good banter (even if it means getting a new keyboard ).

[Tom Joad]

Really like "A Very Good Aviation Site" it seems pretty perfect, go along with Angels re the main section being serious and the JB stuff down below, we are rather haphazard at the moment, I have a feeling that once we disassociate from TOP we will attract more interest, maybe we have been pushing the ex ppruners/banned rather too much, and it could be that some of the pprune regulars don't wish to be caught up in a squabble.
Recommend we stop the pprune observations, ignore TL and so on and have a fresh start.
I would change my avatar thingy but ian16th has beaten me to it with the wheel disc.

Agreed, TOP should not, and I don't believe it does as of late, define this or the new forum. I've now had my last conversation with the likes of TL. These pointless arguments are a feature ingrained in TOP and something I'm pleased are not as prevalent here. I think that AVGAS would be a cracking name and readily understood by anyone associated with aviation. However I think we are going to have to get really creative though to think about discussion categories/forum focus to attract the demographic we want. This is all actually quite exciting and a breath of fresh air.

[Boac]

would it be possible to get the 'active threads' for specific sub-forums?

- not 'specific'forums, but the 'Active topics' drop down would help you.

PS Thanks for your memories from TOP - I regret the diminishing brain RAM module I have cannot recall those events!

[probes]

'Active topics' drop down would help you.

What do you mean? I've discovered "Active topics" that display all active topics, or 'Unanswered posts' and that's all unanswered posts.
It would be good to have "Active topics" separately for the Quarter Deck Forums and PPruned Social, for example. But I don't know if that can be done. General "Active topics" works well if you can take a look every day, but if not, it's overwhelming (which isn't a bad thing, of course - to have many posts).



P.S it was about the Polish TU154M crash, and I understood later (having read more in other threads as well) why you got impatient, so no hard feelings anyway .

[Boac]

Ah - I remember. I had quit 'modding' by then.

Re Active topics - I was not sure you had found it.... I don't think the PHPBB software has your required function. I think you can edit 'viewforum.php' to append the individual sub-forum name to the 'active topics' at least.

[probes]

I don't think the PHPBB software has your required function.

Alison?

[admin]

Flicked some switches designated "Enable Active Topic" to on, but can't say I've noticed any changes, Probes.

Returning to the topic. Before implementing any changes we really do need to determine whether our current demographics are acceptable. I would suggest these are:-

1) Spent time in an aviation related industry.
2) Retired, semi-retired or close to.
3) Well able to express their thoughts in acceptable English.
4) Possibly with a background in the armed forces.

Please add to the list as you think fit. Note: it is a list of who we are, and not necessarily descriptors for any potential new members.

Alison

[500N]

You need 4 because that brings in the non aviation military people.


(one good thing mil aviation people did was throw RGB out at altitude )

[Tall Bird]

I do like our current demographics - mature-aged, technically competent, well travelled people, able to communicate successfully by the written word. Thinking people, experienced in life and world affairs. I think it's important that we retain this. Alison

Which is why I like this site. I've learnt a lot, been introduced to new music, chatted with some lovely folk and, most importantly, had a laugh. After a long lurk and occasional posting on TOP, joining here in August was just what I needed when involved in a fraught family situation in Canada.

I often forget to scroll down beyond JB because the natter and banter there is of the finest quality but miss interesting topics elsewhere. Agree JB could be moved down the list. However, if the upper topics do not attract much business, casual traffic clicking on to the site may not linger thinking it is not particularly active.

Also concur with the name change but to what? I like AVGAS and NOTAMS - would these names attract both professional and non-pros?

Thank you again Alison for all your hard work in setting up ppruned - long may it continue in whatever form you decide.

[dubbleyew eight]

re #53 you need to include owners and pilots in the list or you risk the site being a thinly masked venue for advertising the trade.

there is a great deal of turmoil in aviation regulation at present and australia isn't doing it very well at all.
a lot of the cynical posts in TOP are caused by frustration in an ever diminishing over regulated environment.
don't make your focus so narrow that it is only a forum for angst.

[unifoxos]

Generally in agreement with what's been said re renaming, changing the layout of the index page etc. I like NOTAMS as a name, but as it is an "official" term I wonder if using it might be frowned on by authorities, as well as causing confusion for anyone looking for real NOTAMS. I prefer AVGAS - as gassing about aviation is the idea. As avgas is something that can be sold many of the domain names for it are taken, although avgas.website is still free.

However if the list in #53 is an AND list, potential members like myself will be excluded by reason of number 1) Spent time in an aviation related industry. Although our company was once owned by a subsidiary of BA (thanks for all the cheap staff flights, BA), we ourselves were not in the aviation business, and I only trained as a PPL in the 70's, so I can't claim to meet that particular criterion. If the idea is to keep AVGAS (or whatever) SOLELY for current and ex- aviation professionals, fine, but I would point out that TOP does have fora for private pilots, pax etc. which attract quite a number of members and have lead some of them to post (quite sensibly IMHO) on other fora.

[om15]

Agree that NOTAMS would be inappropriate due to possible confusion.

add 5.
Those that have an interest in aviation and world travel.

[admin]

Please note the list in #53 is not an exclusive list. Reckon any two out of the four will do.

Unfortunately domain names based on the word "avgas" appear to be already registered. If anyone does have any good ideas on a potential domain name for our community please PM them to me rather than announce them publicly. Thanks.

Alison

[limeygal]

Those that have an interest in aviation and world travel

Seconded. Just because they haven't worked in the industry that shouldn't preclude them or discourage them from joining. Also, perhaps add something for cabin crew and wannabees