A RyanAir 737 pilot, not at all speaking on behalf of his employer as he never does, has made a rather interesting vid of what happens when a non pilot is put into the hot seat of a sim and is expected to land the thing.
He chose a very intelligent fellow YouTuber who has no training in flying at all.
I commend this video to the House.
Re: We need more
Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2022 10:07 pm
by TheGreenAnger
I haven't watched UP's video yet, but I will. I did however watch a reconstruction of the Lion Air 737 Max crash this morning, with 3 pilots trying, including Andy Green, to fly the same flight profile in a simulator, and it was very interesting. Given what happened, and the state of their knowledge, those Lion Air guys had little chance...
Re: We need more
Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2022 11:15 pm
by Wodrick
Tnx forza video, I was surprised still how much driver input Boeing had managed to create. Having done the same exercise in an A320 and A330 sim I can say it is much simpler. Virtually no input required at all just monitor.
Naturally different with failures.
'tis part of our engineering courses, always in the middle of the night.
Tnx forza video, I was surprised still how much driver input Boeing had managed to create. Having done the same exercise in an A320 and A330 sim I can say it is much simpler. Virtually no input required at all just monitor.
Naturally different with failures.
'tis part of our engineering courses, always in the middle of the night.
But we got to play for hours.
It ultimately comes down, to having sussed the situation, and having the power of the finger turn the wheel. At over 400 knots in a dive, at less than 10,000 feet QFE. Kiss your arse goodbye.
Re: We need more
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 1:49 am
by Undried Plum
Attitude plus Power equals Performance.
It's a bit basic.
In politics, also.
Re: We need more
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 2:48 am
by llondel
I know in principle how to fly a generic aircraft and the stuff that needs to be watched, and I can claim some small practical experience on a Cessna and a Tiger Moth. However, when faced with a modern airliner cockpit, I can see that the biggest issue is figuring out which button I need to press, or which knob to turn. If it's all smooth and there's plenty of time then I can figure it out and learn, especially with some helpful chap on the radio telling me what to look for. If there was a fault warning, trying to navigate the flight computer to figure out the problem and the procedure to follow might take too long, especially if the fault meant there was altitude loss that couldn't be recovered with a bit of power and stick, or I had an engine fire to deal with.
I remember when I was a newly-qualified car driver, it was still very much a conscious and deliberate process to check the handbrake, press the clutch, engage the gear and slowly let up the clutch with a bit of throttle, releasing the handbrake at the appropriate time (especially on a hill start), compared to now when I just do stuff automatically and the muscle memory means I don't have to think about it. I assume a lot of 737 routine flying is the same, you know how much to move the stick, how much rudder, etc, and your brain auto-compensates and adjusts.
I'd love to try a simulator one day to see how well I'd do.
Re: We need more
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 3:03 am
by G-CPTN
I was lucky to have my children arrange for me to 'fly' a 737 simulator.
I started with a simple hop from England to France, then a more complicated approach and landing on Madeira, and finally, approach and landing at Kai Tak.
Of course, the instructor had set up the controls such that I only had to act as the jockey and steer the machine, and I had flown into Kai Tak several times as a passenger and also many times in MsFlightSim.
Re: We need more
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 11:41 am
by Undried Plum
Kai Tak? Puke.
I spent a most disagreeable couple of days doing a search and recovery job in that cesspit, alongside the runway, after an Airbus had tossed a turbine wheel, or parts thereof, overboard on takeoff.
Fragrant? Pah!
The airbreathing mammals we sent over the side to fetch the thing were so toked up on prophylactic antibiotics that they were steaming before they swam.
Everybody on the ship got the Bombay trots. And then the heads got blocked up. Oh. I remember it so well.
Honkers. It will forever rest in my memory.
I really ought to buy that MS Sim thingy and try to land an unfamiliar type at Kai Tak. I remember, as a passenger in a window seat on the Stbd side, seeing how close the wingtip was to the tall blocks of flats on short final. Quite impressive.
I spent a most disagreeable couple of days doing a search and recovery job in that cesspit, alongside the runway, after an Airbus had tossed a turbine wheel, or parts thereof, overboard on takeoff.
Fragrant? Pah!
The airbreathing mammals we sent over the side to fetch the thing were so toked up on prophylactic antibiotics that they were steaming before they swam.
Everybody on the ship got the Bombay trots. And then the heads got blocked up. Oh. I remember it so well.
Honkers. It will forever rest in my memory.
I really ought to buy that MS Sim thingy and try to land an unfamiliar type at Kai Tak. I remember, as a passenger in a window seat on the Stbd side, seeing how close the wingtip was to the tall blocks of flats on short final. Quite impressive.
Always used to stay at the Sheraton next to the Peninsular. Just a short walk up to the United Services Club. A snack and a few beers by the pool then a snooze in the gentlemen's garden. Could never get rid of the traffic noise though.
My tailor from there sent me Christmas cards for decades.
Yep I always though that we would clip laundry, drying on the landing lights on the roof tops, on the wing tip.
Re: We need more
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 2:36 pm
by Ex-Ascot
How many pilots these days would have the hands on skills to do this?
Re: We need more
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 2:40 pm
by Undried Plum
I always though that we would clip laundry, drying on the landing lights on the roof tops, on the wing tip.
Wingtip vortex: spin-dry.
Re: We need more
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 3:24 pm
by G-CPTN
As a passenger on the starboard side, you really could make eye contact with the occupants of the flats as they went about their meal preparations.
Re: We need more
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 3:37 pm
by Undried Plum
For some reason, of which I must not ask, a household member enjoys the spin cycle.
Re: We need more
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 4:13 pm
by talmacapt
Kai Tak was much more interesting before they introduced the IGS.
I remember the days when it was an approach that started at the Cheung Chow ndb, 2500ft, gear down, slats and approach flap.
Get as near the checkboard as possible and heave into a right hand turn, can't remember the height.
Bit like 33 at Sumburgh, 600 ft gear down and approach flap past the lighthouse, 300 ft, full flap and turn over the quarry.
15 was a sra to limits on 09 with a visual manouevre onto the runway.
Usually gave that to the copilot as he could keep the runway continuously in view.
The wind at Sumburgh could be quite challenging at times.