Rant of the Day v2.

[ExSp33db1rd]

Make him P.M. !!

[emjay]

In the process of changing apartments - oh joy! Noted on the snag list at handover that the cylindrical wall-mounted water heater was seeping at a seam and looked like the wall mounts were no longer effective. After putting up with the usual "they are all like that, that's how it's supposed to be etc. etc." the Landlord was persuaded to send the "handyman" to "fix" it.
Sure enough, it was only the pipework holding it in place - as soon as the second pipe union was slackened, the whole lot crashes to the floor. Fortunately I'd turned off power and water before he started... now there was a very dented unit sitting in a pool of rusty water and the handyman nursing his toes.
Progress - a new unit arrives a couple of days later but with the same "handyman" attached. He does a good job of new wall mounts with expanding bolts but is somewhat challenged by rerouting the pipes and cabling. Two visits later he has some approximation of the plumbing schematic implemented including a short copper downpipe that terminates in the air. What is that for? "Don't worry lah, that is only if the unit goes over pressure, not need to plumb it anywhere."
Hmm - maybe. Cursory testing passes. Make a note on his worksheet about the open pipe and bid him farewell.

Using the beast shows an interesting characteristic - there is now an integral non-return valve in the cold feed (modern plumbing code). This means the expansion water can no longer pollute the cold feed pipe and has to go somewhere. Yes, you guessed it - out the pressure relief valve as a hot dribble.

Ok, get the plumbing tackle out and prepare to route the dribble somewhere more sensible than the kitchen floor. But up close there is a characteristic smell of hot PVC. Probe around and find the 15Amp drop circuit is terminated by a 5A connector block, connecting up an (optimistically) 8A cross-section flex cable to the heater entry. Well, it was a connector block, it now resembles the lump they found at the bottom of Chernobyl. Simple calculation - a 3KW heater here needs 12-15A - neither connector nor flex cable properly rated.

Sigh - handyman willing but untrained...

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

I have just fitted a new immersion heater myself (replaced all the plumbing, in fact). I do not get the dribble problem as I don't need the NRV as I'm running off my own well and pressure tank. You will need at least 14 gauge wire, depending on the voltage drop and water heater specs. I would recommend 12 gauge wire, which is what I've fitted. Over here, you need 18"/45cm of copper pipe from a water heater before starting with PEX/plastic. If you are doing quick fittings, many municipalities will allow Sharkbite, but no other brand. Plumbers I have asked agreed this is the only reliable brand. I use cinch fittings. If you'd like me to do/check any calcs, PM me; happy to help.
It is my experience that the vast majority of tradesmen are very poor/completely ignorant about the aspects of ancillary trades needed for their typical jobs. Over here, it is often said that the most dangerous thing known to man is an unsupervised DWV plumber (as he will cheerfully cut through structural members to run your bath drain, etc).

[Rossian]

.....help us out Fox - what is a DWV plumber?? I was out dog walking this AM and my brain is a wee bit weary.

The Ancient Mariner

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Drain, Waste and Vent. The unpressurised bit of plumbing. Because these are bigger pipes, it's almost impossible to fit these without cutting structural members. There are strict guidelines on exactly where and how they may be cut, which by and large they totally ignore.

[Rossian]

....."capisco" as we say in Morayshire.

The Ancient Mariner

[emjay]

Thanks for the offer Fox, but job done and dusted now. We deal in sq. mm wire cross sections here, not those funny gauge thing me jigs.
Odd mixture - square pin 13A plug/sockets but wired radially, not as a ring main. British legacy frozen in time around 50 years ago , including such gems as the round pin 15Amp unfused plug/socket - ideal for that thumping load of an aircon unit. Recent modernisation has switched to mm cable sizing, ELCB's (shock horror!) and (why oh why?) the horrible older Euro cable colour code (black/brown hot, blue neutral) instead of the (to me) more intuitive red hot/black neutral. At least that's better than the Phillipines where domestic size cable is only commonly stocked in black - imagine probing a split phase distribution board with 40-50 incoming black single cores and everything lights up your test "neon"!

Ok, I admit it - rant generator for technobabble to the uninitiated. But it is SO refreshing to talk the someone who clearly understands, instead of the locals who spend half the time trying to persuade me that a crap job is exactly the way it should be, and the other half phoning the "boss" complaining about the "difficult" ang moh ...

[OFSO]

ELB horrors: woodlice (eg) in cable ducts. Crawl over connectors, ELB trips, woodlice fried, reset. ELB. Test circuits, RWT/FNF. Until next time. Why don't they manufacture ELBs with a time delay reset. The big contact breakers on the 12Kva (I think) overhead supply to my community have gas-resets I believe.

[Capetonian]

All this talk of cabling and relays make this somewhat appropriate :

A power cut that disrupted rail traffic on a Japanese island last month was caused by a slug, officials say.
More than 12,000 people's journeys were affected when nearly 30 trains on Kyushu shuddered to a halt because of the slimy intruder's actions.
Its electrocuted remains were found lodged inside equipment next to the tracks, Japan Railways says.

[Wodrick]

Why don't they manufacture ELBs with a time delay reset.

Do you mean what the Spanish call the 'Differential Switch' ?

In which case they do.

[Pontius Navigator]

We had two waterproof sockets near our gate. One was not fully latched. When I opened it it was full on snail s

[ian16th]

British legacy frozen in time around 50 years ago , including such gems as the round pin 15Amp unfused plug/socket - ideal for that thumping load of an aircon unit.

The 'British Legacy' is a trail across the world.

Your 15A plug, is rated as 16A here in SA!

No one has ever explained to me how this was achieved.

FYI Mauritius uses 13A sockets, dunno how they are wired. Back in the 60's Cyprus also did, again dunno about today.

At Base Aérienne 125 Istres, where the norm was 110v we had a 230V system in the Radio Bay that used 13A sockets. Confused the Frog Works & Bricks guys

[4mastacker]

People who use arty-farty language to make themselves look like they're really important/interesting. The partner of the bloke that eavesdropped on Boris having an alleged "robust discussion" with his bird describes herself as ...wait for it..... an "experimental playwright"... i.e she's out of work having written a load crap that has been f*****d off at the high port by every producer she's approached.

[Hydromet]

f*****d off at the high port

Haven''t heard that before - consider it stolen.

We have a lounge suite - 3 seater + 2 chairs - inherited from SWMBO's parents. Old, but clean & in good condition, & no longer wanted/needed (The reason is another story.) Rang the Salvos, explained what it was & that it was up a low flight of stairs. Salvo guys arrive, check it out & decide it's OK, but they can't carry it down the stairs.
Make a 'Free to good home' sign for community notice board. Within the hour, a bloke rings, checks it out & says he wants it. Says he will come the following weekend with son & trailer. I ask him to let me know when he knows what day & time.
Doesn't arrive on Saturday. When I ask when he's coming, he says definitely the following weekend. I tell him Saturday's no good, any day during the week or Sunday is ok, so he agrees Sunday. Again, I ask him to let me know what time, or if he can't make it.
No message from him, so when I ask him today what time he'll be arriving he comes up with a string of excuses and says he can do it in 2 weeks time.

Told him to F*** off. Got neighbour to help me carry everything downstairs and replacement up - a matter of 10 minutes easy work for one young & one old bloke. Will ring Vinnies tomorrow.

[Pontius Navigator]

Hydromet, almost, sold a Range Cooker for ££££ and got the money in PayPal (and out) but took ages to get the bloke to collect. He got it home and a week later alleged it didn't work. Send me an itemised costed repair quote. Never heard a thing again.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Pleased you have it sorted emjay. I have mostly radial in this old house. One 15A breaker supplies a single socket in the lounge. Another 15A breaker supplies another socket in the lounge...and the outside socket, the sunroom sockets, the kitchen lights, the bathroom lights, and everything electrical - lights and sockets - for the entire upstairs 4 bedrooms and landing. Interesting! I will eventually be replacing the entire wiring, which radial does make easier to do in stages.

[k3k3]

Our house in Germany had about fifty CBs in the "Fuse Box", each socket in the kitchen had its own CB and there were 3 phase sockets in the cellar and garage, it made fault finding dead easy whenever the RCD tripped.

[ricardian]

At Base Aérienne 125 Istres, where the norm was 110v we had a 230V system in the Radio Bay that used 13A sockets. Confused the Frog Works & Bricks guys

After leaving the RAF I became a civil servant and had occasion to visit HMS Mercury (stone frigate in Hants). After being ushered into their classified computer room I was told to use the 13A sockets on the left but NOT the identical-looking 13A sockets on the right because they were 440V (as found on board Grey Funnel line).
A similar incident at the new MOD commcen in London (1964 or thereabouts) occurred when I plugged a piece of kit into a socket and discovered that although all sockets were the old-fashioned round pin type, some were 240V AC and some were 160V DC - there were no markings to indicate which was which, only the Post Office engineers knew which was which. Good old Elf & Safe Tea!

[Pontius Navigator]

Turkey, European Istanbul

some were 160V DC - there were no markings to indicate which was which,

co-jo plugged his shaver in to socket. It sort of worked.

[Capetonian]

I once lived in a very old building in Spain where half the sockets were 120 DC and the others 220 AC. Of course they looked different but it was always a challenge to have the right socket for the right appliance, specially as each room only had one of each socket type. If I remember correctly, the two different 'types' of electricity were supplied by different companies.

When I lived in CPT most of my electrical stuff was UK and had the UK 13 A square pin plugs (the best in the world). I replaced the ZA sockets (three different types) with UK standard ones, not a difficult job.