Rant of the Day v2.

General Chit Chat
Message
Author
User avatar
TheGreenGoblin
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 17596
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:02 pm
Location: With the Water People near Trappist-1

Re: Rant of the Day v2.

#3301 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:48 pm

Boac wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:19 pm
There was only one (two?) reason/s Baywatch used to be popular viewing in t'Occifers' Mess.
For a quick peek at the rescue helicopter, a Bell Jet Ranger 206 that used to appear sometimes, but not enough for me, flying over those beaches man!

I, totally, know what you mean..., or not =))

Though you remain
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."

User avatar
OFSO
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 18601
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 6:39 pm
Location: Teddington UK and Roses Catalunia
Gender:
Age: 80

Re: Rant of the Day v2.

#3302 Post by OFSO » Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:25 pm

I can't believe this news story on SKY TV tonight, about a young girl (not an adult) who wanted to become a boy, went to the Tavistock centre for something called gender reassignment, they did the job (paid for on the NHS) and now 'he' regrets the decision, is changing back to being a girl again - but is taking the Tavistock centre to court for not having dissuaded her from the initial change in the first place.

I understand and accept gender reassignment, but not for young children still in post-puberty who have not sorted themselves out sexually and are unsure of themselves.

User avatar
Ex-Ascot
Test Pilot
Test Pilot
Posts: 13096
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:16 am
Location: Botswana but sometimes Greece
Gender:
Age: 68

Re: Rant of the Day v2.

#3303 Post by Ex-Ascot » Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:19 pm

We have been told we have to pay the cancellation fee for our airline tickets with SAA before they will refund the dosh. Then it will take up to two months to get the money back.
'Yes, Madam, I am drunk, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly.' Sir Winston Churchill.

User avatar
Woody
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 10245
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:33 pm
Location: Sir Kenny Dalglish Stand
Age: 59

Re: Rant of the Day v2.

#3304 Post by Woody » Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:34 pm

Ex-Ascot wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:19 pm
We have been told we have to pay the cancellation fee for our airline tickets with SAA before they will refund the dosh. Then it will take up to two months to get the money back.
Knowing the SAA financial situation, probably best to write that off X(
When all else fails, read the instructions.

User avatar
Ex-Ascot
Test Pilot
Test Pilot
Posts: 13096
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:16 am
Location: Botswana but sometimes Greece
Gender:
Age: 68

Re: Rant of the Day v2.

#3305 Post by Ex-Ascot » Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:47 pm

Woody wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:34 pm
Ex-Ascot wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:19 pm
We have been told we have to pay the cancellation fee for our airline tickets with SAA before they will refund the dosh. Then it will take up to two months to get the money back.
Knowing the SAA financial situation, probably best to write that off X(
Yep you are probably right. Working though a CPT agent so giving them ***** first.
'Yes, Madam, I am drunk, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly.' Sir Winston Churchill.

User avatar
OFSO
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 18601
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 6:39 pm
Location: Teddington UK and Roses Catalunia
Gender:
Age: 80

Re: Rant of the Day v2.

#3306 Post by OFSO » Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:05 pm

If I hear any more over-hyped angst-ridden panic stricken reporting about the Corona, I shall do a Violet Elizabeth Bott...

G-CPTN
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 7595
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:22 pm
Location: Tynedale
Gender:
Age: 79

Re: Rant of the Day v2.

#3307 Post by G-CPTN » Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:13 pm

Today I have taken all my empty Corona bottles to the local recycling facility.
Can't be too careful . . .
Afterwards I was on a bus and I managed two sneezes (I contained the spray, naturally) - two passengers left their seats and moved further down the bus =))

Capetonian

Re: Rant of the Day v2.

#3308 Post by Capetonian » Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:00 pm

We have been told we have to pay the cancellation fee for our airline tickets with SAA before they will refund the dosh. Then it will take up to two months to get the money back.
I have never heard of this.

Travel agent gets your dosh up front, issues ticket, and is billed by BSP (Bank Settlement Plan) and the payment is taken from their account typically on the 10th. day of the month following the ticket issuance.

Refund procedure : You request refund and cancellation. Travel agent puts in refund application via an automated process called ATC, and their BSP account is credited more or less immediately with the fare minus cancellation charges. They should then refund you that amount minus their own charges.

User avatar
Ex-Ascot
Test Pilot
Test Pilot
Posts: 13096
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:16 am
Location: Botswana but sometimes Greece
Gender:
Age: 68

Re: Rant of the Day v2.

#3309 Post by Ex-Ascot » Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:25 am

Thank you Cape I will quote you on that.

Olympic would not take a cancellation by e-mail had to be in writing or phone. Sure one hour by mobile phone from Bots to Athens to be put on hold for an hour listening to the theme tune to Zorba the Greek. RiS very kindly offered to do it and it actually only took him 6 mins. Got about a 30% refund. With 6 weeks to go that is ridiculous.
'Yes, Madam, I am drunk, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly.' Sir Winston Churchill.

User avatar
Rwy in Sight
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 6740
Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 8:04 pm
Location: Lost in an FIR somewhere
Gender:

Re: Rant of the Day v2.

#3310 Post by Rwy in Sight » Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:05 am

Ex-Ascot wrote:
Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:25 am
Thank you Cape I will quote you on that.

Olympic would not take a cancellation by e-mail had to be in writing or phone. Sure one hour by mobile phone from Bots to Athens to be put on hold for an hour listening to the theme tune to Zorba the Greek. RiS very kindly offered to do it and it actually only took him 6 mins. Got about a 30% refund. With 6 weeks to go that is ridiculous.
It was fairly straight forward as it was a public holiday in Greece yesterday and most people were recovering from a large lunch. I am wondering - Cape may confirm that- whether the amount refunded was the tax portion of the price and not the fare. Also Ex-A did you choose the "light" fare which in Olympic/Aegean is not refundable?

User avatar
Ex-Ascot
Test Pilot
Test Pilot
Posts: 13096
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:16 am
Location: Botswana but sometimes Greece
Gender:
Age: 68

Re: Rant of the Day v2.

#3311 Post by Ex-Ascot » Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:28 am

Ah good point RiS. No idea which type of ticket. We have travel insurance so was not concerned about losing the flight, didn't plan on canceling it.
'Yes, Madam, I am drunk, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly.' Sir Winston Churchill.

Capetonian

Re: Rant of the Day v2.

#3312 Post by Capetonian » Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:17 am

What you pay for an air ticket consists of :
A 'base' fare + an airline imposed 'fuel or airline surcharge' which is a ripoff and should be part of the base fare
Various government/airport taxes
If you book through a travel agent, you may also pay a service fee for the privilege of letting them stuff up your booking and add an extra link of complexity and potential problems to the booking process.

Taxes are usually fully refundable on cancellation, but the airline or agency will often charge a 'fee' to process the refund.
"Refund amounts to £58.60. Our processing fee for this refund is £60.00."

The base fare + surcharge will be refundable as per the fare rules. There will usually be a penalty on cancellation, which may be expressed as a percentage, anything from 0-100%, or as an amount. Generally the lower the fare level, the greater the penalty.

It's all set out in the fare rules and Ts and Cs when you book, and as MoL says :
"If you ticked that box to say you've read them and you didn't, don't come bleating to us with your problems."

G-CPTN
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 7595
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:22 pm
Location: Tynedale
Gender:
Age: 79

Re: Rant of the Day v2.

#3313 Post by G-CPTN » Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:28 am

Although (presumably) not official policy, the expected downturn in bookings due to Coronavirus might affect the sale-ability of cancelled seats, thereby depressing the amount refunded.

Pontius Navigator
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 14669
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:17 am
Location: Gravity be the clue
Gender:
Age: 80

Re: Rant of the Day v2.

#3314 Post by Pontius Navigator » Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:21 am

BoJo is a fantastic wordsmith and he is doing a fantastic job as Prime Minister leading a fantastic team, and everything will be all right as we have a fantastic NHS.

FFS, get a bloody thesaurus and ban the use fantastic for the next 24 hours. Watch our fantastic MPs trying to manage without the F word.

Capetonian

Re: Rant of the Day v2.

#3315 Post by Capetonian » Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:26 am

I went to a baptist wedding once, in Cheriton (Kent). Real happy clappy leap in the air and praise the Lord stuff.
The priest used 'amazing' about 20 times in each sentence.
"It's amazing to have so many amazing people here on this amazing day to celebrate such an amazing event, the joining of these two amazing young people.........."
At first I thought it was a joke, but when it went on and on and on and on, I realised it wasn't.
We sat next to a practising Christian couple, even they said : "It's this stuff that puts people off religion.

User avatar
Ex-Ascot
Test Pilot
Test Pilot
Posts: 13096
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:16 am
Location: Botswana but sometimes Greece
Gender:
Age: 68

Re: Rant of the Day v2.

#3316 Post by Ex-Ascot » Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:07 pm

OK why can't the airlines be like this? From Blue Star Ferries:
Dear Sir,

Please confirm that the reservation number is 16599214. We can cancel this reservation with full refund .

Regards,

Panagiotis Kartsonis
'Yes, Madam, I am drunk, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly.' Sir Winston Churchill.

Capetonian

Re: Rant of the Day v2.

#3317 Post by Capetonian » Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:39 pm

The ferries have a simpler fare structure than airlines. they will have a basic one way or return fare, with seasonal variations, and a supplement for seat/cabin.

Airlines price according to many criteria, primarily dynamically according to demand at the time, which is why fares go up and down. They also have multiple classes of service, and within each cabin class they will have different subclasses where the level of restrictions, from none to many, determines the fare paid, from high to low.

User avatar
ian16th
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 10029
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:35 am
Location: KZN South Coast with the bananas
Gender:
Age: 87

Re: Rant of the Day v2.

#3318 Post by ian16th » Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:13 pm

Cape
Can one still buy a full fare business class ticket, with an open return? Then do changes of up to 10% of the mileage on the return trip?

I was once on a business class return ticket with Varig, Joburg - Rio - Miami, and open return.

I changed the return route to Pan-Am, Miami - Heathrow, Austrian Airlines Heathrow - Vienna, Austrian Vienna - Heathrow then BA Heathrow - Johannesburg, when I asked the price , it was all at no extra cost. This was done at about 7:00 in the evening at the Pan Am desk in Miami airport. I always assumed that Pan Am really wanted the business.

Could this be done today?
Cynicism improves with age

Capetonian

Re: Rant of the Day v2.

#3319 Post by Capetonian » Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:55 pm

Ian : Yes, in theory, but ....... you may wish you hadn't asked but here goes :

This dates from IATA (YY) fares in the days of simplicity when flights had two classes (F and Y) and very simple fares, one way, return, which was double a one way, and an 'excursion' return which had restrictions, typical a MIN/MAX stay.

These were theoretically fares in which all/most airlines participated over the same route, so for example you could buy a YY fare to fly JNB-SA-LHR-BA-YYZ-AC-YVR-BA-LHR-BA-JNB. If you choose a different routing for your return, for example YVR-LH-FRA-OA-ATH-OA-JNB, provided that all the airlines participated in YY fares, you would just have your ticket reissued for the new routing, taking the previous coupons in exchange for the new ones.

In this process, the TPM (ticketed point mileage) would be checked and if it fitted in on the MPM (maximum permitted mileage) there would be no surcharge, and if came to more, up to 25%, there was a proportionate mileage surcharge applied in 5% bands, so if your TPM exceeded your MPM by 7%, there would be a 10% mileage surcharge.

In theory YY fares still exist but they are completely non-competitive and complex as some airlines don't participate in them, some do but only on certain routes, and so on. I can't remember the last time I saw or issued a YY fare ticket.

Nowadays fares are normally, and then with restrictions, only interchangeable within the same alliance and although (I think) YY fares and the principles above still exist, I don't believe they are used these days.
Typically what you might see if you looked up a LH fare from LON-CPT, it would show different routing options such as :
LON-LH-FRA/MUC-SA/LH-CPT
LON-LH-FRA/MUC-SA/LH-JNB-SA-CPT
LON-LH-FRA/MUC-LX/LH-ZRH-LX-JNB
ad infinitum

Luckily I don't need to know any of this any more!

If you went to a ticket desk or travel agent now and asked for a YY fare, nobody under 50 would know what you were talking about. It would be like phoning a taxi company and asking for a hansom cab!

P.S : As a matter of interest I looked up YY fares on the IATA website :
YY Fares Retire after Seven Successful Decades

​Geneva - The International Air Transport Association (IATA) announced that the YY Fares will be rescinded from 31 October 2018. The decision to rescind YY Fares was taken with a vote by the IATA Passenger Tariffs Conference on 28 June 2017. The rescinding of YY fares reflects the dramatic transformation that continues to take place in the distribution of airline products.

YY fares are IATA multilateral interlineable fares. Established in 1945, they successfully enabled consumers to purchase a single ticket in a single currency, giving worldwide travel options on different airlines and luggage checked through to final destination.

Until the 1980’s most consumers traveled on YY fares. But competition, deregulation, alliances, liberalized bilateral agreements and developments in anti-trust regulation saw the use of YY fares gradually replaced by fares established by airlines. Today YY fares account for just 0.03% of tickets sold.


While YY Fares will shortly disappear, IATA support for the multilateral interline system will continue with global standard setting for fare construction, mileage principles and currency standards. More importantly, airlines and industry partners are working through IATA to focus on the transformation of airline distribution with programs such as New Distribution Capability (NDC) and ONE Order.

“YY fares were the backbone of global airfares for much of the last 70 years. But their relevance has been overtaken by changing markets and consumer demands. Airlines are responding to this with innovations that will benefit consumers with more choice. And IATA’s focus is on enabling airlines to bring these innovations to consumers using modern day marketing and distribution capabilities—NDC and ONE Order. Travelers are gradually experiencing the benefits of NDC with a richer and more transparent shopping experience when using travel agents. And behind the scenes, the ONE Order initiative is modernizing industry processes so that airlines sell their product in a single seamless transaction,” said Alexandre de Juniac, IATA’s Director General and CEO.
Background on YY Fares

The Chicago Convention established the framework for international civil aviation in 1944. However, provisions for market access, fares or rates were not included in the Convention. The frameworks for these were left for national governments to negotiate in bilateral air service agreements (ASAs). As a standard practice in ASAs, governments relied on IATA to submit coordinated international fares and rates for approval. These fares became known as IATA YY fares.

In 2006 the coordination of YY fares was converted from physical meetings to a web-based system known as e-Tariffs to generate Flex fares, where a premium was added to the average of the highest carrier fares for the complete flexibility that the YY Fares offered. Intense competition among airlines, however, saw the decline in the use of YY fares accelerate.
Coincidentally, the date above, 31OCT18, coincides with the month in which I decided to completely stop working in this particular field.

User avatar
Ex-Ascot
Test Pilot
Test Pilot
Posts: 13096
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:16 am
Location: Botswana but sometimes Greece
Gender:
Age: 68

Re: Rant of the Day v2.

#3320 Post by Ex-Ascot » Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:18 pm

Why can't you just buy a ticket from the conductor at the door when you get on the aircraft? It seems much easier.
Attachments
Tickets.jpg
Tickets.jpg (11.41 KiB) Viewed 139 times
'Yes, Madam, I am drunk, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly.' Sir Winston Churchill.

Post Reply