PA103 - what really happened

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barkingmad
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Re: PA103 - what really happened

#21 Post by barkingmad » Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:18 pm

Plum, both individuals unbelted when disintegration occurred means random distribution of bodies.
I’m more interested in what or whom was under the tarpaulin guarded by plainclothes but obviously US personnel who were able to deny access to the police force of the sovereign territory of Scotland until morning.
Then a ‘Jolly Green Giant’ arrived onsite, loaded the mystery cargo and/or body aboard and released Scottish soil to the local police force once again.
Re the brown Samsonite containing the bomb there was disallowed evidence it may have been loaded at LHR.
That’s too embarrassing to admit so we were all treated to the unlikely theory of Luqa-Frankfurt-Heathrow-Lockerbie detonation.
I’m musing over how many O-N members may be reading this exchange but are shy of posting comments, queries or challenging the case being proposed!

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Re: PA103 - what really happened

#22 Post by OFSO » Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:40 pm

Well I've always been interested in the case, never believed the official line, but the suggestions being made here admit to no clear resolution in my mind one way or another, except to confirm my belief that Megrahi was a fall guy.

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Re: PA103 - what really happened

#23 Post by barkingmad » Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:17 pm

I appreciate your quandary OFSO. All I can suggest is an unlikely long discussion face to face with cynics like myself and Plum (pub would be good!) or start reading whichever tomes take your fancy as giving the best optional explanations. Some mentioned here but websearch will soon throw up many more.
Simple clear resolution is PFLP-GC sponsored by Iran in revenge for the Vincennes incident. Also as US was looking at Iraq even before Kuwait invasion they needed to keep Iran onside despite their obvious part in the PA103 atrocity so scratch around for a likely-looking ‘patsy’ country to blame. Ghadafi had form upsetting western governments and was also sitting on massive oil reserves so go for his administration instead. He admitted liability and threw a couple of “intelligence operatives” to the USUK lions in exchange for lifting of the sanctions against Libya.
Does that help?

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Re: PA103 - what really happened

#24 Post by Rwy in Sight » Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:55 am

Random thoughts:
I would have thought that late Ghadafi was out of the world game by mid 1986 when the attacks in Tripoli took place and rather unwilling to be at the receiving end of those F-111. Iran was happily receiving weapons and paying them (the Kontras could get some money too) so why upset the newly found supplier.

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Re: PA103 - what really happened

#25 Post by Undried Plum » Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:01 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... ain-secret

It really is outrageous that such a wholly and conclusively exculpatory primary document from an impeccable source is withheld from the Defence. The very act of the withholding ought to result in an instant overturning of the perverse verdict of Guilty which was handed down to Megrahi's judges/jurors who were hand-picked by the Prosecutor in the case to deliver him his desired verdict(s).

I greatly regret the fact that I cannot attend the public gallery of that famous Appeal Court room in Parliament Square today. Covid rules necessarily make that completely impossible. Sadly there probably won't be full and honest Court Reporting either.

I'd like to look the Appeal Judges and the gumment lawyers straight in the eye. I suspect I'd be looking into the face of Evil.

Bastards!

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Re: PA103 - what really happened

#26 Post by Undried Plum » Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:36 pm


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Re: PA103 - what really happened

#27 Post by Woody » Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:43 pm

When all else fails, read the instructions.

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Re: PA103 - what really happened

#28 Post by Undried Plum » Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:29 pm

What an excellent article, Woody!.

Here are those of us, out in the wilds, who know and recognise that we have been lied to about PA103. it was was a shockingly revelatory experience. For some of us others, it was a shock discovery as to the extent of the lies that we are told and that are perpetuated by the embedded liars in the meeja.

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Re: PA103 - what really happened

#29 Post by Woody » Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:30 pm

Robert Fisk was one of the main reasons for reading The Independent, along with David McKittrick.
When all else fails, read the instructions.

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Re: PA103 - what really happened

#30 Post by Undried Plum » Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:17 pm

Woody wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:30 pm
Robert Fisk was one of the main reasons for reading The Independent, along with David McKittrick.
+1

He was one of the last.

We are all the poorer for that.

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Re: PA103 - what really happened

#31 Post by Undried Plum » Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:28 pm

Undried Plum wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:17 pm
Woody wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:30 pm
Robert Fisk was one of the main reasons for reading The Independent, along with David McKittrick.
+1

He was one of the last.

We are all the poorer for that.
I also tip my hat to Cadman, while I can.

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Re: PA103 - what really happened

#32 Post by tango15 » Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:03 am

Undried Plum wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:29 pm
What an excellent article, Woody!.

Here are those of us, out in the wilds, who know and recognise that we have been lied to about PA103. it was was a shockingly revelatory experience. For some of us others, it was a shock discovery as to the extent of the lies that we are told and that are perpetuated by the embedded liars in the meeja.
The whole PA103 business has long interested me. I have a close contact in Malta with whom I discussed this some years ago. He hadn't followed the story very closely and was unaware of the Malta connection. When I told him that Gauci had allegedly received $2m from the US govt after the trial, his eyebrows shot to the ceiling and he said something in Maltese which he refused to translate.

I think if the man on the Clapham omnibus realised just how close the government and the meeja are these days, he would realise that true journalism disappeared some years ago in the UK, with the possible exception of Robert Fisk and one or two more. With virtually no investigative reporters, the government simply does what it likes and hands out the crumbs to the meeja for them to expound to the rest of us. I have given up watching any of the major news channels now, with the exception of al Jazeera, who firstly believes there is a world beyond the UK's borders and secondly reports what has happened without any discernible bias.

I understand that the remains of the aircraft still languish in a scrapyard in Lincolnshire. I wonder if the scrappie is paid to keep it there?

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Re: PA103 - what really happened

#33 Post by Undried Plum » Wed Nov 25, 2020 5:04 pm

barkingmad wrote:
Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:18 pm
Plum, both individuals unbelted when disintegration occurred means random distribution of bodies.
I really should have responded to that line when is was posted, because it is so wrong.

The centre section of the fuselage together with the entire wing went into that ghastly crater in Sherwood Crescent at the Southern end of the town. There was almost no scattering of bodies from that section. There was the body of a young woman, which was still breathing for a few minutes after being found. She came down a couple of hundred metres North of the crater in the grounds of the tiny ambulance station. She was the exception. That's very little scattering from 28,000' in upper winds of well over 50kts and surface winds of 25 to 35knots.

The entire aft section, everything abaft the trailing edge of the wing root, went into the Rosebank area at the North end of town. The scatter radius of bodies there was about two hundred metres.

The section(s) of the for'ard fuselage ahead of the leading edge of the wing root came down about three miles East of Lockebrie, just to the North of Tundergarth. Ja'afar, seated in 53k, shown have landed somewhere in Rosebank, three miles West of Tundergarth. Instead, he came down with the First Class passengers. Very strange.

He was a known drugs mule. He was from the Bekaa Valley which was where Gannon's crew believed the hostage group such as Terry Waite and Father Jenko were being held. It does seem odd that his US visa was issued by the US Embassy in Beirut at a time when that embassy was closed following the bombing of the Marines barracks. It is strange that it was issued on a Saturday when consular facilities are normally closed for the weekend. I would think it must take an awful lot of clout to have such a consular facility opened under such circumstances. For an oik from a scruffy part of Lebanon to be awarded such a privilege does seem very odd.

For several years there was a plausible hypothesis that the bomb was smuggled aboard in his 'protected' suitcase, but I don't believe that to be true as I know that the suitcase carrying the white powder sachets had no explosive damage and such damage as had caused it burst open is consistent with impact damage.

The fact that Ja'afar and Gannon were found so close to eachother suggests to me that he'd been invited up to First Class by Gannon for a chat about something or other.

Speaking of the crater, I know that a small group of Hasidic jews, in traditional garb, were allowed to rake around the bottom of the crater to recover something or other. Considering that this was the crime scene of Scotland's biggest mass murder case in history, I find it surprising that civilians were allowed by police to disturb evidence and take away anything they wanted. One theory is that they were diamond dealers trying to recover a consignment of diamonds, but the cargo manifest does not mention such a cargo.

There's an awful lot of things about PA103 which have never been explained. The very famous solicitor who is leading the Appeal says that he will be revealing some previously unheard information after the Appeal is ruled on one way or another.

I doubt very much that the five appeal judges will bring the entire edifice of the Scottish legal establishment down on their own heads by upholding the appeal and acquitting Megrahi. That's just too much to hope for. Too many very important people have too many lies for the Truth to be told now.

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Re: PA103 - what really happened

#34 Post by G-CPTN » Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:08 pm

Are they mad? Or just devoid of brains? Blind and deaf?
He said they had rejected the argument that the trial court had come to a verdict that no reasonable court could have reached.

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Re: PA103 - what really happened

#35 Post by Undried Plum » Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:36 pm

I am appalled.

Sometimes, such as today, I'm a bit embarrassed to be Scottish.

What happened to those two Libyan guys should not happen to a dog. What happened to the entire Libyan people in revenge for something of which none of them was guilty is a massive crime against humanity.

The whole of Scotland, all of us, should hang our heads in shame.

Justice? In Scotland? No such thing.

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Re: PA103 - what really happened

#36 Post by EA01 » Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:34 am

So..sorry im missing the issue here...Like the rest of the world I always thought the Libyans did it...so WHAT exactly is being put forth here?

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Re: PA103 - what really happened

#37 Post by Boac » Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:38 am

Oh boy!! Got some spare time?

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Re: PA103 - what really happened

#38 Post by EA01 » Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:25 am

Yeah....actually I do right now, Corona and all that.... :)

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Re: PA103 - what really happened

#39 Post by Boac » Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:53 am

I'm sure UP will explain it to you.

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Re: PA103 - what really happened

#40 Post by EA01 » Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:03 am

OK, but I don't go in for wild conspiracy theories......Just sayin'.....

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