Fathers!

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TheGreenGoblin
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Fathers!

#1 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:15 pm

A bit of a heavy topic I know, but still apposite, even on a Friday, morning/afternoon wherever you are.

I guess most of the folks who contribute here are men, save for the ladies, just going to show that the exception confirms the rule in cases not excepted. Whatever the case, men or women, I was apt to wonder about how some think of their fathers?

This cast of mind was prompted after reading this interesting article reference John La Carre, aka David Cornwell, whose dad, interesting as he was, was clearly a total rogue.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/ ... -away-with

Reading that made me think of my father and realise that, while as a young man I tried to love and win his friendship and affection, in my dotage I have grown to hate him, not least because every time I look at myself, I can now acknowledge that I am more like him than I would ever want to admit!

Fathers, are they worth the the candle? Do you love, miss or simply care for your father, alive or dead, or like me does your father cause you nothing but grief?
Though you remain
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."

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Re: Fathers!

#2 Post by Pontius Navigator » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:27 pm

TGG, better with age. He was an alcoholic and lost his job after running aground. He has been much better these passed 30 years and I have discovered much more about what he did during the war though there remain many gaps.

PS, I am 4 years old than both him and his father when they died though I have 5 years to go to beat my GGGF and 16 to catch my GGF.

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Re: Fathers!

#3 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:41 pm

Pontius Navigator wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 2:27 pm
TGG, better with age. He was an alcoholic and lost his job after running aground. He has been much better these passed 30 years and I have discovered much more about what he did during the war though there remain many gaps.

PS, I am 4 years old than both him and his father when they died though I have 5 years to go to beat my GGGF and 16 to catch my GGF.
May you long abide PN! ;)))
Though you remain
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."

Sisemen

Re: Fathers!

#4 Post by Sisemen » Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:10 pm

My old man buggered off to Rhodesia with “the other woman” when I was about 7 leaving me and my younger brother with my mother who had MS. And he “forgot” to send maintenance after a while. We reunited when I was 29 and just commissioned and, when I emigrated to Australia (where he then lived) we had closer contact. However, that 20 odd year gap was critical. He had ceased to be my father and had become an old bloke that I knew more closely. That’s it really. I rarely think about him and it’s 20 years this December since he popped his clogs. I think he regretted his life and the woman he ended up with, but such is life.

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Re: Fathers!

#5 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:06 pm

Sisemen I can relate to what you say there, my old man buggered off early in my life...

When it comes to questions like this I always hope that men, like my dad could have been, like Mr Banks...

Though you remain
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."

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Re: Fathers!

#6 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Fri Oct 11, 2019 4:30 pm

Being truly serious about this. The questions I ask here are all about what it means to be a man, a woman or at least a bloody good human being (of which, by observation, I see many here)...

I did warn you. It is a serious question.
Though you remain
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."

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Re: Fathers!

#7 Post by Pontius Navigator » Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:13 pm

I think serving with shits helps you see life in perspective.

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Re: Fathers!

#8 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:24 pm

Pontius Navigator wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:13 pm
I think serving with shits helps you see life in perspective.
You are absolutely right Sir. =))
Though you remain
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."

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Re: Fathers!

#9 Post by barkingmad » Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:36 pm

Mine was strict but fair. Got me interested in fixing things by me holding the inspection lamp whilst he worked on ancient Citroen Light15 (Maigret) car when I was just a sproglet <9 years old.

In the 1950s he was "New Man" by loading up aforementioned car with my 3 sisters + me + mum, dropping her off with her family for respite whilst we went on to adventures in ROI staying under canvas, 1 tent for a week or more.

Much later when mum felled by a stroke (medical negligence involved) he cared for her til he was downed temporarily by a stress heart attack and she had to be placed in residential care until her death at 82, 4 years before he died aged 88. I was hacked off he had more hair than me at the end........

I appreciate mum & us kids were sooh lucky in comparison with most and certainly when set beside some stories which (will) feature here.

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Re: Fathers!

#10 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:44 pm

barkingmad wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:36 pm
Mine was strict but fair.
Clearly a good bloke. :-bd
Though you remain
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"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."

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Re: Fathers!

#11 Post by Pontius Navigator » Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:01 pm

Yeah, mine bought a house and a Hoover but couldn't see the point of a car, even when mum learnt to drive, as he was away at sea. I remember one time we badgered him to buy a fridge before he went away. I bought them their very first washing machine and refurbed their kitchen.

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Re: Fathers!

#12 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:10 pm

Pontius Navigator wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:01 pm
Yeah, mine bought a house and a Hoover but couldn't see the point of a car, even when mum learnt to drive, as he was away at sea. I remember one time we badgered him to buy a fridge before he went away. I bought them their very first washing machine and refurbed their kitchen.
How did we, I am father too, get it so wrong?
Though you remain
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."

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Re: Fathers!

#13 Post by larsssnowpharter » Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:19 pm

Father's! Where would we be without them?

Mine is 96 and still around and in remarkable good health. He started flying training in 1942 and finished a military flying career in 1970 completing some 6000 hours military flying. Has a couple of gongs but is a modest, unassuming guy.

I love him madly.

He is a fairly strict, devote, Catholic who, as an all abiding rationale for his life, takes the word 'duty' seriously. When my mother was dying, he nursed her at home for a year until she died in his arms. He put up with all kinds of hell during that period as her mind went.

I recall once complaining to him about a secondary duty I had in the RAF. No sympathy whatsoever from him. 'It's a duty. Do it the best you can.'

I love him dearly.

In his logbooks appear such aircraft as: Lysanders, Moths, Magister's, Hurricanes, Spitfires, Tempests, Seamews, Meteors, Anson's, Mosquitoes, Hornets, Gannets, Lincolns, Shackleton's and a Pitts ( that was his)

He taught me to fly, introduced me to aircraft and, in many ways, more importantly, the people around them. He sent me solo at 14.

My kids from 2 marriages worship him. He finds time for them all.

I love him dearly and will be so sad when he goes and I cannot ask his advice. But, I know the answer:

"Just do the right thing son".

I love him dearly.

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Re: Fathers!

#14 Post by barkingmad » Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:42 pm

FATHERS MISSING AFTER THE ACTION.
Watching last night’s prog about the Met Policing London, yet again too many times it was a tearful BAME mother interviewed re the death of her son in some stabbing/shooting event.
But no sign of the grieving father because in that culture it’s accepted to play the field, inseminate as many as possible and move on to the next gullible willing receptacle.
No politicians of any flavour have highlighted this phenomena, sometimes evident in the indigenous Caucasian population but statistically overwhelming in the ‘minority’ residents.
Then we’re treated to film of aforesaid grieving mothers and supporters marching demanding “something must be done”, but by whom?
A difficult issue to grasp which will inevitably slip from the hands of the Islington sect and alas any other party who tries to address it in blunt terms will be castigated as racist.

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Re: Fathers!

#15 Post by Capetonian » Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:10 pm

Mine too was strict but fair. My mother had a fiery temper but if we did something really bad, she would say : "Wait until your father gets home", and we'd know we'd get away with a talking to but no drama.

He was an engineer and always fixing things around the house, he was handy with power tools, and used to keep things going by replacing motors, pumps, etc, and from him I got my interest in mechanical and electrical matters. He loved 'pottering' as he called it, in the garage and to a lesser degree in the garden.

He had zero interest in matters culinary and hardly ever went into the kitchen except to make instant 'coffee', the kitchen of course being the domain of women, I think he may have been a bit worried about me as I loved cooking from a young age, but he never said anything.

He would never condone anything devious or dishonest, and brought us up to respect the police and authorities, and to appreciate the value of money. He also taught us to respect others and never had a harsh word to say, particularly about people of other races, except for Nigerians, based on his experience working there.

I visit my parents' grave from time, and always have some moments of quiet reflection.

As barkingmad said :
FATHERS MISSING AFTER THE ACTION.
.......... too many times it was a tearful BAME mother interviewed re the death of her son in some stabbing/shooting event.
But no sign of the grieving father because ........ it’s accepted to play the field, inseminate as many as possible and move on to the next gullible willing receptacle................. any other party who tries to address it in blunt terms will be castigated as racist.
I must be racist then .......... and I certainly didn't get it from my father.

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Re: Fathers!

#16 Post by Smeagol » Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:51 pm

My Dad...........not extraordinary, just a typical man of his era. Born in 1915 so grew up through the 1920s and 30s. Never took a driving test as he was given a driving licence for his 14th birthday (I think) as he was always riding his father's motorcycle anyway. Was a carpenter and joiner by trade but through attending 'night school' obtained technical qualifications and became a construction engineer eventually overseeing water and sewerage schemes in the 1960s and 70s. Probably drank too much too often. Saturday nights took Mum out to a pub (and me when I was a teenager) but Sunday lunchtime was down to the local pub whilst Mum cooked the lunch (Sunday dinner as it was termed - we were not posh). Cooking, cleaning, washing etc.was women's work and he didn't do that.
He was not a 'touchy feely' person and I suppose we were never a 'close' family always a little aloof. I respected him but and I suppose I loved him, I know I cried when he died but .... It was a long time ago. Mum was probably a much bigger influence on me ...but that is a different subject.
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Re: Fathers!

#17 Post by Alisoncc » Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:22 pm

Didn't really feel like contributing to this thread, but.... My Dad came back from Germany - WWII, with what the army called "chest complaints". Later diagnosed as emphysema and chronic bronchitis. Never spoke abut his wartime experiences, but understood from his odd mates at the pub they were far from pleasant. Only able to work during the six warmer months of the year. No welfare back then, so very much dependent upon neighbours and friends for survival, with occasional charity handouts - British Legion.

in the RAF when he died, only heard a month later when I next got a leave pass and went home. Being an Aspie, it didn't seem to have any impact on me. Mums brother had emigrated to Oz with the intention of the rest of the family following. A few months later received a letter saying the whole family were emigrating - 10 pound Poms. Mum, sister and BiL, and four younger brothers, all gone. I was signed up for the air force until aged 30, so I wasn't going anywhere. Weekend passes and leave became meaningless. Had no where to go. That was the start of my wandering around the world.

Gained my cynicism about Remembrance Days and the like from my Dad. Said "They seek to remember all those who died, but don't give a sh*t for those who had only just survived". He was a good guy though. Lost count of the number of times he would come home with a homeless family in tow. They would take over our sitting room whilst they searched for somewhere to live. Invariably the man of the family was ex-army, doing it tough. There were so many in the forties and early fifties in the UK.
Rev Mother Bene Gesserit.

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Re: Fathers!

#18 Post by Pontius Navigator » Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:23 pm

Thinking back, I was 4 when I direct saw my father. When I was 10 I was away at school for 8 months a year and my times at home didn't necessarily coincide. In the first 6 years he was away for much of the time. The longest time was a couple of months about 1953 when he was on convalescent leave.

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Re: Fathers!

#19 Post by Magnus » Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:13 pm

Dad was ex-RAF (engineer). He signed for Wolverhampton Wanderers for the youth squad, but didn't pursue that path as his mum told him he should stick to an assured career as a welder. He made his way up the career ladder with Parsons Peebles, and spent a lot of time working away installing kit in hydro-electric schemes in Scotland and Wales. First heart attack at 54, retired early, and passed away soon after his 80th birthday.

He rarely spoke about his war years in ZA and Burma, other than funny stories.

I loved him.

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Re: Fathers!

#20 Post by Capetonian » Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:33 pm

My Dad was in the Royal Engineers, in India and Burma. He had great respect and liking for the Indians and Burmese and a passionate hatred of the Japanese, as did many people who had been in that region during the war. He rarely spoke about the war, few people who experienced it wanted to relive the memories, but he did show us some faded sepia photographs once, the one that sticks in my mind being of the Bridge on the River Kwai. He wasn't as far as I know a PoW, so I am not sure what his involvement was.

I regret that I never treated him to a trip to India, he could perfectly well have afforded it on his own, but it would have been a treat I would have enjoyed giving him. I do remember though taking him to one of his favourite Indian restaurants, somewhere near Regents Park, with one of my first pay cheques. My mother didn't come, she hated Indian food and wasn't too fond of Indians either, not that she could really tell the difference since anyone with a dark skin was a 'wog' or 'nigger' to her, including a half-Persian schoolfriend of mine.

I inherited my Dad's passionate lack of interest in sport, particularly football, and to a lesser degree his lack of interest in art and culture. He wouldn't have known the difference between a Velazquez and a Picasso, making him, according to my mother, a complete 'philistine' or 'savage'. She also said that because he was from the north, he didn't know how to use a knife and fork before she 'educated' him. Despite that, he was extremely well read about military history and geography, whereas my classically educated mother, who spoke about 4 languages, couldn't have located Australia or India on a map of the world. His spelling was also far better than my mother's, at least we think it was but we could never read his writing, so maybe it wasn't!

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