Doncaster Floods

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Sisemen

Doncaster Floods

#1 Post by Sisemen » Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:32 pm

Not sure how many on here have an association with Doncaster in Yorkshire (come from there, posted to Finningley or Lindholme, or any other reason) but the citizens have been enduring massive floods over the past few days.

The RAF are operating in the area and Army manpower is also helping out. I believe that an appeal has been made for clothing etc and that a National Emergency has been declared, but I guess those in the UK will know more.

Just a heads up at this stage
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Re: Doncaster Floods

#2 Post by ian16th » Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:41 pm

The RAF are operating in the area
From the prison, that was RAF Lindholme?

I was there for 2.5 years, my 1st posting from Boy's training.

Arrived, still under 17 1/2 as a Boy Entrant, went through LAC, SAC and J/T and left as a Corporal at only 19! The best place ever for promotions.

A pity I was posted to Coningsby.
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Re: Doncaster Floods

#3 Post by Sisemen » Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:08 pm

No infrastructure at Lindholme any more. Probably ex RAF Finningley, now Robin Hood International.

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Re: Doncaster Floods

#4 Post by Pontius Navigator » Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:31 pm

And around Lincoln too. Here is the Coningsby and Woodhall area https://flood-warning-information.servi ... 3FWFPLWI10

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Re: Doncaster Floods

#5 Post by 4mastacker » Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:25 pm

On my daily trips to Lincoln this past week, I saw the Witham through the centre of Lincoln was just a few inches from topping as it flowed past the Waterside Centre and the folks at Siemens were looking rather anxious where the relief channel flows under their factory. There was flooding around the Brayford, the Glory Hole, side roads leading off from the High Street and the Tentercroft Street car park. Fields all over are absolutely waterlogged and ditches are full to overflowing.


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Re: Doncaster Floods

#6 Post by barkingmad » Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:20 am

My last 4+ years of service were on the VC 2.5 at Finningley, great job and a lovely little executive jet but a shite station with too many senior orifices desperately trying to climb the greasy poles of promotion at the expense of the troops.

Phew, that’s got that off my chest!

As the current awful disaster continues I notice a deafening silence on MSM regarding the thorny topic of council planning departments permitting residential or other structures in flood plain areas. The same silence surrounds the lack of dredging and proper drainage maintenance from humble street gullies up to major drainage rivers such as the South Yorkshire Don and of course York suffers from the inability of the Ouse to take the excess water.

Finally the progressive paving of front gardens to provide parking in urban areas has belatedly been recognised by councils as a contributory factor in throwing more water onto the streets instead of being absorbed by soil and vegetation. Alas their efforts to reduce/prevent this creeping disease seem less than assertive. Also as previously mentioned in other flood events the tendency of the privately-owned reservoir operators to maintain full stock, even though heavy rain is forecast for days ahead, prevents upstream higher open country areas from absorbing the runoff and reducing the surge in the rivers. But these types of measures coupled with more tree planting required joined-up thinking which as we know in UK local and national government is a classic oxymoron.

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Re: Doncaster Floods

#7 Post by 4mastacker » Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:58 am

A lot of coverage yesterday of the gums beating/hot air being blown by Corbyn and Swinson about the inactivity of Boris and criticising the government for not releasing funds to assist the affected areas.

The Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government announced on the 9th November that the Bellwin Scheme had been activated to provide emergency funding to help with the costs incurred in responding to the flooding.

Typical bloody politicians - more concerned about political points scoring and gobbing off about what they would do if they were in power instead of doing something tangible to help those unfortunate folks who are badly affected by the current flooding - anyone would think there is a General Election just round the corner.
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Re: Doncaster Floods

#8 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:35 am

The farmer now living on a tiny island near Lincoln has pointed out that the EA has spent vast amounts on new offices for bureaucrats to prosecute him if he overfertilizes, but nothing on dredging the river which has now overflowed.
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Re: Doncaster Floods

#9 Post by 4mastacker » Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:58 pm

I read an article about the EA a couple of years ago where it stated that the organisation has as many vehicles as staff -they've obviously got their spending priorities right.
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Re: Doncaster Floods

#10 Post by Sisemen » Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:21 pm

4mastacker wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:58 pm
I read an article about the EA a couple of years ago where it stated that the organisation has as many vehicles as staff -they've obviously got their spending priorities right.
Bit like our shithouse local government with its totally inept CEO.

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Re: Doncaster Floods

#11 Post by 603DX » Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:46 pm

A short letter to the Editor of The Times yesterday caught my eye.

High means dry

"Sir, I am sorry to hear about the devastating floods. But we must stop blaming climate change for all our woes and look at why we continue to build houses on flood plains (the clue is in the name). Names like Fish Lake and Water End are charming addresses but, as a civil engineer with a career in water resources, they strike fear in my mind. This is not the first time they will have experienced flooding, nor will it be the last. The best plan is to buy a house on a hill."

This particular retired civil engineer tends to agree with those views, and lives on a hill ...

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Re: Doncaster Floods

#12 Post by Ex-Ascot » Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:55 pm

We dream about flood water here.
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Re: Doncaster Floods

#13 Post by ian16th » Wed Nov 13, 2019 4:18 pm

603DX wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:46 pm
A short letter to the Editor of The Times yesterday caught my eye.

High means dry

"Sir, I am sorry to hear about the devastating floods. But we must stop blaming climate change for all our woes and look at why we continue to build houses on flood plains (the clue is in the name). Names like Fish Lake and Water End are charming addresses but, as a civil engineer with a career in water resources, they strike fear in my mind. This is not the first time they will have experienced flooding, nor will it be the last. The best plan is to buy a house on a hill."

This particular retired civil engineer tends to agree with those views, and lives on a hill ...
Yep!
I lived on Harrow Hill in the Forest of Dean and never had a flood worry.
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Re: Doncaster Floods

#14 Post by llondel » Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:31 pm

I am conveniently 250ft up the side of a hill. However, it depends on the hill - if there's enough above you then it could slip down and get you that way. Our house is supposedly on bedrock but the back garden below us could go at short notice. It's certainly moving that way visibly over the course of the past five years based on what's happening to the fence. A bit more wind risk too.

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Re: Doncaster Floods

#15 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:26 pm

We dream about flood water here.


I'm on top of a shallow hill - 125 ft. Wildfires have happened here, big ones, but my place is a good distance from the forest that surrounds. There are sufficient trees on the property for shelter. There's no risk of earthquakes, no recorded tornadoes, and the hurricanes have not affected me (there's no tropical energy left in them by the time they get here). Nowhere is perfect, however. The gap between forest and property means snow drifting in winter, and a risk of lightning strikes in summer. The buildings have been here a hundred years or so, in which time two have been lost to fire from lightning. I shall be putting out snow fences to the north this year; we'll see if that helps.

Some advice I got a long time ago - don't build a house where you wouldn't pitch a tent.

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Re: Doncaster Floods

#16 Post by om15 » Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:42 pm

I live about 250 yards from a normally quite placid river Stour, periodically it floods across the fields to within about thirty yards from my front door, one of the reasons being that further downstream near Wimborne sluice gates get closed to back up the water to prevent flooding in the Christchurch area, so the problem is managed by moving the problem around. Following the floods on the Somerset levels last year the subject of dredging was brought up, an extract from article in the Guardian,

Among these problems, the Environment Agency points out, are:

1. Massive expense. Once you have started dredging, "it must be repeated after every extreme flood, as the river silts up again".

2. More dangerous rivers: "Removing river bank vegetation such as trees and shrubs decreases bank stability and increases erosion and siltation."

3. The destabilisation of bridges, weirs, culverts and river walls, whose foundations are undermined by deepening the channel: "If the river channels are dredged and structures are not realigned, 'Pinch Points' at structures would occur. This would increase the risk of flooding at the structure." That means more expense and more danger.

4. Destruction of the natural world: "Removing gravel from river beds by dredging leads to the loss of spawning grounds for fish, and can cause loss of some species. Removing river bank soils disturbs the habitat of river bank fauna such as otters and water voles."

As the agency says, dredging is primarily a tool for improving navigation and, in some places, land drainage. It has been mistaken by people who ought to know better, including ministers, as a means of dealing with a different problem: flooding.

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Re: Doncaster Floods

#17 Post by 4mastacker » Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:42 pm

OM,

Your number 4 is the number 1 reason why C&RT are against any dredging of me canal because we mustn't disturb the little furry and feathery things*. They say we should be agitating the silt to move it. That idea works in a flowing river but on a canal the silt just settles back to where it was before being given a stir. ~X(

The local farmers would love to be able to spread the silt on their land but C&RT's bureaucracy won't allow it citing the waste disposal regulations - organising dredging is just too much trouble for them.


* Except when it suits C&RT to do some dredging "to improve water flow" - a point which contradicts the view of the EA.

As an aside, there is talk of handing over the EA's responsibilities for rivers to C&RT - that should be interesting!
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Re: Doncaster Floods

#18 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:07 pm

The Witham is basically an artificial waterway anyway, so none of that EA BS applies.
As best I can tell, that list all applies to dredging deeper than the natural channel. It does not apply to silt which has reduced the depth of the former natural channel, as I'm sure they know and choose to ignore.

They are trialling a robot dredger in a harbour on PEI at the moment. Seems like the way to go, rather than spending vast amounts on thinking up reasons why nothing can be done.
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Re: Doncaster Floods

#19 Post by Hydromet » Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:48 pm

603DX wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:46 pm
A short letter to the Editor of The Times yesterday caught my eye.

High means dry

"Sir, I am sorry to hear about the devastating floods. But we must stop blaming climate change for all our woes and look at why we continue to build houses on flood plains (the clue is in the name). Names like Fish Lake and Water End are charming addresses but, as a civil engineer with a career in water resources, they strike fear in my mind. This is not the first time they will have experienced flooding, nor will it be the last. The best plan is to buy a house on a hill."

This particular retired civil engineer tends to agree with those views, and lives on a hill ...
This dehydrated hydrographer/hydrologist also agrees. Not only are buildings on flood plains subjecting themselves to flooding - and they will be - but by reducing the waterway area, they are subjecting upstream areas to higher flooding.
In Australia, we have what is informally called Munro's law, After Professor Crawford Munro: If you've had a flood, you'll have a bigger one.

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Re: Doncaster Floods

#20 Post by Pontius Navigator » Thu Nov 14, 2019 9:52 am

We live near the Witham. Just below us is a spring. This runs alongside Water Lane, and sometimes over it, to the river. We continually object to new applications to build on the flood plain but still the applications flow. One, 60 feet below the A1 embankment and yards from the river has been rejected 3 times.

One has to ask who would buy them.

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