Where to retire to?

[John Hill]

South Vietnam? Commie state.

[TheGreenGoblin]

Vietnam or rather the Socialist Republic of Vietnam was certainly known for its booming economy before the contagion and, so I have been told, has a rich history, culture and some beautiful geography. Sadly it is also high on the list of countries known for their human rights violations and repression of freedom.

Anecdote - My barber in Wapping was the son of a South Vietnamese Air Force pilot who flew the A-1 Skyraider and who managed to get political asylum here in the UK after 1975. I had dinner with the family a number of times, lovely people and the old pilot was a fascinating chap who told me that the RVNAF had also flown the American version of the Canberra.

Tis a country that I would love to visit that's for sure.

[boing]

When I first flew into Vietnam it was to what is officially called Ho Chi Minh City, formally Saigon. To my great consternation I made the mistake of making a whole arrival PA calling our destination Saigon. I discretely tried to find out how bad my mistake was to be told that the locals only used the name HCM on official business but they actually preferred and used the beautiful old name of Saigon. In South Vietnam there does not seem to be any enmity over the war, by the time I went there it was already a popular vacation centre for Europeans both rich and hippy.

If I should unfortunately find myself alone I would still be tempted by a beach in Vietnam and the locals could have whatever I left behind.

I used to regularly visit a certain bar which was open to the street, the room was on two levels with the upper section railed off and I would hide in a corner often quietly sitting alone and watching the world go by. One day a little urchin arrived wanting to polish my shoes, a frequent event. Unfortunately for him I was wearing Clark's desert boots so the polish was out however the sharp young fellow noticed I had broken and retied one of my shoelaces. He disappeared and later returned with the correct new laces so I asked him how he had found them at this time of day. He had hitched a ride downtown on the back of one of the ubiquitous small motor-cycles, found a store, bought the shoelaces and then hitched a ride back and he wanted to charge me less for the laces than they would have cost me in the US. Obviously he needed to be rewarded. On later visits we still met each other occasionally and we would sit down on the grass and share his treats. Lovely people, business minded of course but lovely people.

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[EA01]

Vietnam is a lovely place! Hanoi is an amazing city, the French influence there is lovely, some magnificent restaurants etc. But I think coastal in the South would be best. HCMC is not bad, but I think Hanoi was better.

Don't see Mrs Fliegs and I ever leaving here though. Now Jnr Fliegs has essentially all but moved out, this house is not too big for 2 people, but big enough to get away from each other as well. Backing onto acre sized blocks, giving a sense of space, yet still with shops pub restaurants etc etc within easy walking distance.....7km from the beach, 'inner city' now when you look at the sprawl miles from here...

[EA01]

I agree Boing!, lovely lovely people, fabulous food and ancient culture..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_of ... ure,_Hanoi

[John Hill]

I am sure the Vietnamese will be eternally grateful for all the money, bombs and lives expended 1955-'75 while saving the country.

[boing]

Unlike the country you are familiar with the Vietnamese, at least in the South, seem to have put the war behind them and looked to the future. Even in the war museum where the guides are disabled ex-servicemen there is no obvious resentment for the events and the displays are scrupulously balanced in reporting. True, you can go into an antique store and buy a bracelet made from US dog tags but there is no acrimony. The Vietnamese give the impression of being an old, refined, reserved society and the recent war is history just like all the others they have seen. They have advanced into their future while your friends fester in the past.

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[TheGreenGoblin]

Unlike the country you are familiar with the Vietnamese, at least in the South, seem to have put the war behind them and looked to the future. Even in the war museum where the guides are disabled ex-servicemen there is no obvious resentment for the events and the displays are scrupulously balanced in reporting. True, you can go into an antique store and buy a bracelet made from US dog tags but there is no acrimony. The Vietnamese give the impression of being an old, refined, reserved society and the recent war is history just like all the others they have seen. They have advanced into their future while your friends fester in the past.

The Vietnamese certainly have seen would be conquerors come and leave with their tails between their legs as the Japanese, French, Americans and Chinese found to their cost in the second half of the last century alone. I guess thousands of years have of Vietnese experience of fighting should have been a warning to the interlopers!

[EA01]

I remember the war Museum in HCMC / Saigon, and pictures of the US Soldiers posing in photos with the severed heads of Vietnamese, just as ISIS would do with the severed heads of Westerners all these years later!

My Father in Law flew Iroquois Helicopter Gun ships in Vietnam for the RAN, working closely with US Navy Helicopters.....told the tour leaders of this on our way back from the Cu Chi tunnels, they were not fussed...much as Boing points out above, and TGG wisely observes..

[John Hill]

I am sure those years of considerate warfare turn the world into a better place but don't fool yourselves. All those friendly people do not love you, they probably scorn you and there would be far fewer smiles were it not for seeing you as dollars-on-legs.

For your next adventure holiday I recommend a trip to see the blue mosque at Masah-i-sharif and dont be shy about mixing with the locals.

[Woody]

Not totally relevant, but as Vietnam is popular in this thread

https://www.capetownetc.com/news/vietna ... EK1fyAa_Io

Question- Where did they get 300000+ used condoms?

[1DC]

Been to Vietnam a few times and if the people scorn us they make a damn fine job of hiding it.One of the nicer places in SE Asia in my opinion. We spend the first quarter of every year in Oz, Covid permitting. We thought about buying a property there and spending six months in Oz and six in the UK so that most of our year was winter free but decided that we were better off just renting an apartment when we go because we aren't tied to one place. We would always keep the UK as our base though we are both too long in the tooth to start trying to make new friends.

[EA01]

Woody....thought exactly the same thing!

1DC, if you are ever in the SEQ, let me know, and I'll show you stuff that you may otherwise miss...

[EA01]

I am sure the Vietnamese will be eternally grateful for all the money, bombs and lives expended 1955-'75 while saving the country.

I understand 100% John Hill, I do...was a stupid war, my father in law conceded as much, as an officer in the Royal Australian Navy and a Helicopter Gunship pilot

....But the military go to war as directed by the politicians,...can't help who the populace elect in a 'free & Democratic society'.....

[John Hill]

Been to Vietnam a few times and if the people scorn us they make a damn fine job of hiding it.One of the nicer places in SE Asia in my opinion.

Dollars on legs, this chap has something to say https://www.nomadicmatt.com/travel-blog ... o-vietnam/

[John Hill]

....But the military go to war as directed by the politicians,...can't help who the populace elect in a 'free & Democratic society'.....

Blame the politicians if you like but do you think the survivors of your aggression see it that way?

[1DC]

I read the article JH and it is a shame if that is what happens when you back pack, something I have never done. You will get ripped off if you use the wrong taxis, for example, but their are plenty of guides on the safest way to travel. I have never experienced(realised?) a rip off when dining on the street and always felt I paid the same as others. I went there three times between 2012 and 2016 and felt as if I had good value for money every time. Certainly not expensive in my opinion.

[TheGreenGoblin]

I read the article JH and it is a shame if that is what happens when you back pack, something I have never done. You will get ripped off if you use the wrong taxis, for example, but their are plenty of guides on the safest way to travel. I have never experienced(realised?) a rip off when dining on the street and always felt I paid the same as others. I went there three times between 2012 and 2016 and felt as if I had good value for money every time. Certainly not expensive in my opinion.

The same thing could have happened in any country I guess. The genuine friendship and decency I have encountered from the Vietnamese folk I have met here in the UK made me believe that Vietnam (putatively North or South) is a place well worth visiting, whatever one's political views.

[boing]

I think I would take 1DC's multiple experiences over the complaints of a one-visit backpacker. I would put my own visits at around 15 - 20 flights.

do you think the survivors of your aggression see it that way?

John, you really do have some fantasies. Have you ever been to Vietnam?

One of my co-pilots who was in the unpleasantness was helping an older lady he had met start a motor-cycle rental business, they were great friends and got together whenever he was in town. I'm sure my friend the barman in my chosen street bar really hated me despite the stories we told and the fun we had chatting, he disliked backpackers because they were rude and cheap. The lady owner of the store who insisted on taking the co-pilot and myself out to eat because she wanted to show us real Vietnamese food not tourist food was probably trying to poison us. The blind masseurs, a charity, who beat the heck out of me were probably just getting their revenge. The taxi driver who took me on a tour of the city outskirts was probably tearing up in anger when I bought a toy for his daughter's birthday that he wanted for her but could not afford. Vietnam may be socialist but the people are free to enjoy life, run businesses, actually be capitalists so they are perfectly capable of choosing their own friends without the thought-police interfering.

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[John Hill]

I find it quite amusing that so many here have such jolly fun in a Socialist country!