Electric cars

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CharlieOneSix
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Re: Electric cars

#181 Post by CharlieOneSix » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:48 pm

OFSO wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:44 pm
Not that I'd ever buy an electric car, but is it necessary to buy and have installed a home car charger if one wants fast charging? I see they cost around £500-£600, and must be "professionally" installed. £600 is what I pay for diesel for a year, so this seems a high price. Plus an installation fee for screwing the box on a wall and three (single phase) or four (three phase) wires to connect to one's fusebox, the sort of thing I've done myself several times.
There is a grant available from the Office for Zero Emission Vehicles (OZEV) of £350 towards the cost of a home charger. That is claimed by - and paid to - the approved installer. North of the border a further grant of £250 is available from the Energy Saving Trust. That is paid to the home owner. There are all kinds of rules about when and how you obtain these grants, a basic one being you have to present an electric car order form before anyone will do anything.

Next week I have an approved installer coming out to give a quote for installing a 7kw Ohme Home Pro charger in a converted outbuilding that we use as a garage https://ohme-ev.com/ . Ohme give a price of £550 fully installed with the OZEV grant, so with the other grant my cost will be around £300. Mine will be slightly more than standard cost due to location and cable runs necessary. I don't get my Kia EV6 until late March but I don't trust the politicians when it comes to longevity of grants. I did read somewhere that the £350 grant is due to be withdrawn in March but haven't yet located any official information about that.

The video below shows a different model charger than the one I'm getting but it's still an Ohme....
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Re: Electric cars

#182 Post by OFSO » Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:27 pm

I see those grants are subject to new limitations from next year. BBC. Being reduced for normal householders but made easier to get if you live on the 14th floor of a block of flats.
Just picked up the Mondeo from Ford. Two yearly inspection, their bill circa £88. They took it to the ITV (Government testing station) for free. Plus the test fee (MoT, but Germanic serious).

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Re: Electric cars

#183 Post by PHXPhlyer » Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:43 pm

Lucid Motors subpoenaed by the SEC. Shares plunge

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/06/investin ... index.html

New York (CNN Business)Upstart electric vehicle maker Lucid Motors disclosed Monday it has received a subpoena from the SEC, sending its shares plunging 14% in premarket trading.

The company said the probe "appears to concern" the SPAC deal that took it public earlier this year, along with "certain projections and statements."
Lucid (LCID) raised $4 billion through its combination with Churchill Capital Corp., which was a shell company set up to take a company public without having to go through the typical initial public offering process. The deal was announced in February and shares started trading on Nasdaq in July.
Lucid, founded by headed by former Tesla engineer Peter Rawlinson, has been a relatively hot EV company, even though it just started its first deliver of electric vehicles at the end of October. Its Lucid Air Dream edition has been certified by the EPA as being able to go 520 miles on a single charge, the longest range of any pure battery EV yet, including any Tesla. And the Lucid Air was named the MotorTrend Car of the Year in October.

Shares of Lucid had nearly doubled since they started trading on the Nasdaq.
Lucid is the latest in a growing group of upstart EVs with big questions about financial projections.
Shares of Nikola, which plans to make electric and fuel-cell powered trucks, plunged in September of 2020 after Hindenburg Research, a short-seller, accused it of an "intricate fraud." Hindenburg claimed Nikola's products were much farther from reaching the market than they advertised. Its founder, Trevor Milton, was forced to resign and in February the company's own internal investigation found he misled investors. Milton now faces federal criminal charges, as well as charges from the SEC that he deceived investors.
Another electric truck start-up, Lordstown Motors, was also hit by a report from Hindenburg, which raised questions about the orders for its trucks. Its CEO and CFO also were forced to resign.
Both companies also went public through use of a SPAC, and both traded at lofty prices before questions were raised about their claims about future plans and sales. And neither company's shares recovered. Both are down nearly 90% from their record highs.

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Re: Electric cars

#184 Post by talmacapt » Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:09 pm

It was particularly cold, below -30c, in several places in Northern Finland yesterday and friday.

The news has just announced that it is currently -36 in Muonio, top left hand side near the Swedish border.

I wonder how electric vehicles are managing.

UP tells me one cannot operate a Tesla (at these temperatures), but do other manufacturers publish a minimum operating temperature?

Must severely limit the range.

Today, here in the south, the day temperature climbed to a tropical? -14 having been below -18 for the past few days, somewhat colder overnight.

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Re: Electric cars

#185 Post by OFSO » Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:31 pm

The U.S. securities regulator has opened an investigation into Tesla Inc (TSLA.O) over a whistleblower complaint that the company failed to properly notify its shareholders and the public of fire risks associated with solar panel system defects over several years, according to a letter from the agency.

The probe raises regulatory pressure on the world's most valuable automaker, which already faces a federal safety probe into accidents involving its driver assistant systems. Concerns about fires from Tesla solar systems have been published previously, but this is the first report of investigation by the securities regulator.

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Re: Electric cars

#186 Post by Undried Plum » Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:18 pm

How do diesel tanks cope with -36°C? Do they add Prist or something to stop the fuel from turning to gel?

Here's how a Tesla fares in -38°C. The guy camped in his car in -36° and got six hours sleep. No serious problems.



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Re: Electric cars

#187 Post by Undried Plum » Mon Dec 06, 2021 8:29 pm

OFSO wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:31 pm
The U.S. securities regulator has opened an investigation into Tesla Inc (TSLA.O) over a whistleblower complaint that the company failed to properly notify its shareholders and the public of fire risks associated with solar panel system defects over several years, according to a letter from the agency.

The probe raises regulatory pressure on the world's most valuable automaker, which already faces a federal safety probe into accidents involving its driver assistant systems. Concerns about fires from Tesla solar systems have been published previously, but this is the first report of investigation by the securities regulator.

USG, along with the MSM, hates Tesla. They endlessly pour buckets of shite over anything to do with Tesla.

I reckon that GM and Chrysler and Ford will be busted flushes within ten to twenty years. Even VW and Toyota will be struggling.

Tesla has changed the world's landscape and will never be forgiven by the dinosaurs for doing so.

The car market will be dominated by Tesla, with numerous Chinky companies fighting for market share. Even with massive gumment support, Ford/Chrysler/GM will go the way British Leyland went, and for exactly the same reasons.

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Re: Electric cars

#188 Post by OFSO » Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:50 am

Coldest I've known was in Germany in the 1980's, -28°c. In the old W123 I used to add 25% petrol. Always fired up OK. Then they brought in Winter Diesel. Not available then in UK. Motorhome would not start while parked overnight in filling station in Belgium on way back to Germany. Used hairdryer on injector pump. Started.

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Re: Electric cars

#189 Post by talmacapt » Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:16 pm

There are three grades of diesel in Finland.

Regular diesel, which is "guaranteed" down to about -15.

Winter diesel which is "guaranteed" to, I think, -29 and expected to work to -34.

In the north Arctic diesel is available which is "guaranteed" to, again I think, -39 and, from experience works at temperatures below that.

I assume they have some kind of additives to lower the freeze point.

I have deliberately put inverted commas because I am not sure what guaranteed actually means.

A problem can arise if, for instance, one puts the car on the train in the south and it is somewhat colder on arrival in the north.

In early winter, before winter diesel is available in the south, I tend to ensure there is no more than 1/2 a tank when setting off so that I can top it up in the north.

I have two freelanders, one with a webasto, which warms the fuel/coolant and has remote start, the other has a Defa heating system which warms the block and cabin.

The Defa car, which I tend to use, can be plugged into a 230v mains socket on the journey.

I assume the crew turn the power on a suitable time before arrival.

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Re: Electric cars

#190 Post by talmacapt » Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:19 pm

I note the -36 but thought there is a "do not operate" below -30 in the handbook.

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Re: Electric cars

#191 Post by Undried Plum » Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:56 pm

They don't say 'do not operate'. Instead, they say: "Do not expose Model S to ambient temperatures above 140° F (60° C) or below -22° F (-30° C) for more than 24 hours at a
time."

That Noggie/Thai guy doesn't indicate how long his Model 3 was exposed to -36°, but the car seems not much the worse for it other than a temporary limit to the amount of power you can put in to the battpack with regen/charging and a limit on power output which would not be much of an inconvenience in those road conditions anyway. A few tens of minutes of running at low power slowly warmed the battery up and then it seems to have been back to ops normal.

I should make clear that I have no experience whatsoever of operating my Tesla in proppa cold like that.

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Re: Electric cars

#192 Post by Undried Plum » Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:20 pm

This Munro cove certainly knows his onions when it comes to car engineering and manufacturing.



The Chinks are going to do to the Murricane dinosaur car companies what the Japs and the Jerries did to British Leyland in the 1970s and 80s

All the conditions are there:
Incompetent management;
Complacency;
Excessive government support;
Excessive unionisation.

Tesla, and perhaps, just maybe Rivian, seem to be able to buck the trend.

https://nypost.com/2021/08/05/tesla-not ... carmakers/

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Re: Electric cars

#193 Post by PHXPhlyer » Fri Dec 10, 2021 3:10 am

Drivers playing video games? US is looking into Tesla case
A Tesla owner filed a complaint after finding that drivers can play video games and browse the Internet on the touchscreen dashboard... while the car moving.


https://www.12news.com/article/news/nat ... 80d7c44c03

DETROIT — Last August, Vince Patton was watching a YouTube video of a Tesla owner who had made a startling observation: Tesla drivers could now play a video game on their car's touch-screen dashboard — while the vehicle is moving.

Curious to see for himself, Patton drove his own 2021 Tesla Model 3 to an empty community college parking lot, activated a game called “Sky Force Reloaded” from a menu and did a few loops.

“I was just dumbfounded that, yes, sure enough, this sophisticated video game came up,” said Patton, a 59-year-old retired broadcast journalist who lives near Portland, Oregon.

He tried Solitaire, too, and was able to activate that game while driving. Later, he found he could browse the internet while his car was moving.

Patton, who loves his car and says he has nothing against Tesla, worries that drivers will play games and become dangerously distracted.

“Somebody’s going to get killed," he said. "It’s absolutely insane.”

RELATED: Report: California teen fails driving test due to Tesla regenerative braking

Which is why early last month, Patton decided to file a complaint with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, the government's road safety agency.

“NHTSA needs to prohibit all live video in the front seat and all live interactive web browsing while the car is in motion,” Patton wrote in his complaint. “Creating a dangerous distraction for the driver is recklessly negligent.”

On Wednesday, NHTSA confirmed that it's looking into the matter. News of Patton’s complaint was first reported Tuesday by The New York Times.

“We are aware of driver concerns and are discussing the feature with the manufacturer,” a NHTSA spokeswoman wrote in an email. “The Vehicle Safety Act prohibits manufacturers from selling vehicles with design defects posing unreasonable risks to safety.”

The spokeswoman declined to provide further details of its conversations with Tesla. The agency has not opened a formal investigation, which would involve requests for documents and other detailed information. Tesla, which has disbanded its media relations department, did not respond to messages from The Associated Press.

NHTSA's inquiry marks the latest in a growing list of possible infractions involving advanced auto technology that are being reviewed by two federal agencies as potential safety risks.

The government is looking into Tesla's Autopilot partially automated driving system, as well as its “Full Self-Driving” software system, which is being tested by selected owners on public roads. In addition, as it increases scrutiny under President Joe Biden, NHTSA is investigating over-the-internet software updates that are intended to fix safety problems and Tesla battery fires.

In its statement, NHTSA said that it continues to research driving distractions and that it's issued voluntary guidelines for automakers to determine whether a particular task interferes with driver attention.

“If a task does not meet the acceptance criteria," the statement said, “the NHTSA guidelines recommend that the task be made inaccessible for performance by the driver while driving.”

The agency noted that crashes involving distracted drivers killed more than 3,100 people in 2019, representing about 9% of all U.S. traffic deaths. But safety experts contend that distracted driving crashes are undercounted.

RELATED: Crash victim had posted videos riding in Tesla on Autopilot

It's unclear how long Tesla has allowed games to be played while vehicles are moving. But Patton said a software update that he noticed over the summer may have begun to allow “Sky Force Reloaded” to be used by drivers. The game, he noted, involves missiles and lasers that can be fired at objects.

Before the video games can be activated while the car is moving, drivers are asked whether they are passengers and must click a button saying they are. But Patton said there appears to be no way for Tesla to confirm that fact.

“If you're alone in the car," he said, a driver could lie and still be able to play while driving.

“That’s not much of a safety barrier," he said.

Even if only a passenger is playing the game, Patton said, it can still be distracting to the driver because the game takes up about two-thirds of the touch screen. This also makes it harder for the driver to see warnings and controls for windshield defrosters, he said.

Previously, Patton said, games could be played only while the vehicles were in park. Many drivers use them while waiting for batteries to be recharged at Tesla's Supercharger stations, he said.

RELATED: After Twitter poll, CEO Musk sells off $5B in Tesla shares

The car, however, prevented him from watching movies on Netflix and YouTube while it was moving, he said.

Jason Levine, executive director of the nonprofit Center for Auto Safety, said in an email that NHTSA has the authority to declare the vehicles defective and to seek a recall.

“There’s little question that having a large screen next to the driver on which the driver, or a passenger, can play a video game while the vehicle is moving is an unreasonable risk to safety,” Levine wrote. “NHTSA’s recent statements would suggest this feature has been in violation of both the spirit and letter of NHTSA’s driver distraction guidelines and the law.”

Tesla's Autopilot system has been misused by drivers in the past, who have thwarted its system for detecting hands on the wheel. In one case, a driver in California was arrested while riding in the back seat as the car rolled down a freeway.

After investigating two fatal crashes involving Autopilot, the National Transportation Safety Board recommended that Tesla install a camera system to ensure that drivers were paying attention. The agency said in October that Tesla hasn't officially responded.

Tesla has said that, despite their names, Autopilot and “Full Self-Driving” are only driver assist systems and cannot drive themselves. It says drivers should always pay attention and be ready to take action.

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Re: Electric cars

#194 Post by Pontius Navigator » Sat Dec 11, 2021 9:01 am

I did a survey for our Highways Agency on the wording and clarity of a particular Highway sign. Essentially they all had the same message: 'Watford Gap Svcs No EV Recharging".

Planks.

Told them that the notice did not tell you what you needed to know which was actually the distance to the next available charging point.

How many infrequent travellers know the names of all the service areas?

Have the kiddies forgotten the original signs "last fuel for XX miles"?

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Range anxiety

#195 Post by Undried Plum » Sat Dec 11, 2021 12:44 pm

Ah yes. Range anxiety. Remember that?

So nostalgic.

My Jag in 1976 had 2x12 gallon thanks, but I used to fret about running out of fuel on the A1.

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Re: Electric cars

#196 Post by Rwy in Sight » Sun Dec 12, 2021 10:20 am

Power companies are offering charging spots - not always well designed or thought.

IMG_2021.jpg

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Re: Electric cars

#197 Post by PHXPhlyer » Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:50 pm

The Rivian R1T, an electric pickup, wins MotorTrend Truck of the Year Award

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/13/business ... index.html

(CNN)Some brand new car companies are hitting huge home runs with groundbreaking new vehicles, according to the staff at MotorTrend.

The Rivian R1T has just been awarded the 2022 MotorTrend Truck of the Year Award just a month after the Lucid Air won the Car of the Year award.
In each case, it was the first time any automaker has won the award with its first vehicle. Tesla won Car of the Year in 2013 with the Tesla Model S, another electric vehicle from a startup automaker, but that was Tesla's second model, after the original Tesla Roadster.
MotorTrend, which started as a print magazine in 1949, now also operates cable and streaming video channels and boasts of being the world's largest automotive media company. Its annual "Of the Year" awards, which date back to the magazine's founding, are sought after by auto manufacturers and, when won, are touted in ads.
The Rivian R1T is also the first truck not made by one of the traditional Detroit's Big Three automakers to win the award since 2008.
Ed Loh, head of editorial for MotorTrend, said Rivian's win is even more remarkable than Lucid's because of the challenge pickup trucks represent.

MotorTrend staffers were impressed with the Rivian R1T's design as well as its performance.
Trucks are called upon to perform a much broader range of functions than cars, said Loh, while providing a comfortable ride and good driving experience. Truck manufacturers also tend to be rather conservative when designing new models, MotorTrend writers said, not wanting to risk proven and highly profitable designs. The top selling vehicles in America are the Ford F-series and Chevrolet Silverado.
That makes the Rivian truck all the more striking, MotorTrend noted in its announcement. This year's finalists for the award included other nontraditional pickups such as the GMC Hummer EV, another all-electric truck, and the Hyundai Santa Cruz, which is essentially a crossover SUV with an open cargo bed.
The Rivian R1T is the first commercially available electric vehicle with four motors, one to power each individual wheel. That allows greater off-road capability, because power can be sent precisely to the wheels with the most traction. When driving on pavement, it also helps with cornering, giving the R1T on-road similar performance to a luxury sedan, according to MotorTrend.
When testing the Rivian's competitor, the Hummer EV, MotorTrend staffers were impressed with that truck's power and quickness, but not with its enormous weight (over 9,000 pounds) or with its brakes, which, according to the writers, weren't up the task of quickly stopping all that mass.
The R1T's body has no gap between the bed and passenger cab the way most trucks do. That's not entirely unique -— smaller trucks like the Ford Maverick, another finalist this year, and Honda Ridgeline also lack that gap — but Rivian designers used that available body area to include a cargo tunnel that runs across the truck where that gap would have been. When open, doors to that enclosed cargo area can also be used as side steps to reach into the bed up onto the roof. The R1T also has a big storage area under its hood.
MotorTrend's writers also lauded the Rivian's interior design and materials calling them worthy of the truck's $70,000 price tag. While MotorTrend staffers didn't care for the R1T's heavy reliance on a touch screen for many vehicle functions, they said the interface was at least reasonably easy to use.
MotorTrend is part of a joint venture co-owned by Discovery Inc. CNN is part of WarnerMedia which is expected to merge with Discovery next year.
Rivian only recently began building the the R1T for customers and production was, initially, very slow, according to documents filed with Securities and Exchange Commission. Whether startup companies like Lucid and Rivian will be able to supply vehicles and service to their customers in the years ahead wasn't really a consideration for the award, Loh said.
"It's Car of the Year. It's Truck of the Year," he said. "It's not Business Plan of the Year."
Skeptics raised similar concern when Tesla won the award in 2013, he pointed out, and Tesla went to become the world's best-selling maker of electric vehicles.
MotorTrend, then spelled Motor Trend, gave out its first Car of the Year award in 1949. At the time, the award was given to an overall car brand and Cadillac won. The first Truck of the Year award was given in 1977 to the Ford Econoline van — also considered a truck — but the award wasn't given at all between 1980 and 1989. Motor Trend's annual awards aren't always predictors of market success. In 2002, the Car of the Year award went to the retro-styled Ford Thunderbird, which continued in production only three more years after that.
Today, the awards are given to individual vehicle models that are either entirely new or completely redesigned for the new model year.

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Re: Electric cars

#198 Post by Undried Plum » Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:10 pm

That Lucid Air looks like a nice bit of gear.

If they ever get around to selling them in the UK I might take a close look. I guess they'll try selling them in Norway before tackling other European markets and I guess they'll wait until they're ready to sell in Japan before they build RHD versions.

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Re: Electric cars

#199 Post by PHXPhlyer » Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:07 pm

I was on the Ford website Saturday evening looking at the F150 "Hybrid"* pick-up truck.
I was checking out the different packages as options are not ala carte; some require other options to be included, some unwanted but still required. Wading through al the stuff was very frustrating, but in the end I was able to get a ballpark figure for what I was potentially interested in.
At the end I accidently clicked the button asking to be contacted by the nearest dealer, you had to enter your name and contact info before the website would allow you to spec a vehicle out. [-X
I was texted and emailed yesterday to make an appointment at the dealership to discuss my potential purchase. I called but the contact there was not available. I didn't leave my name but I was called back by the salesman.
I decided to go on and let it play out. I asked him if they had one of the model I was interested in. "No" was the answer but he sad that not having one on hand was no deterrent as I could come in and he would help me order one. [-X
I told him, quite impolitely, that he was crazy if he thought that I would order a 60-70 thousand dollar truck, sight unseen, unable to se one, sit in it or take a test drive. ~X(
Needless to say I won't be going to them should I further entertain the thought of getting one. :-q

* Their idea of "Hybrid" is a helper electric motor in the transmission, ~50 HP, to give a boost of power when needed. No apparent ability to move the truck on its own.
According to the specs: the "Hybrid" version gets the same mileage in city driving or on the highway. 24 MPG. YMMV.

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Re: Electric cars

#200 Post by Pontius Navigator » Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:24 am

Of winter diesel, I remember some years back of truck drivers lighting fires under the truck to warm the diesel.

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