Just almost qualified for the Obituary column as a result of an electric excrescence.
Walking home down a lane of open driveways with many parked cars, one silently reversed out as I passed the gateway and as I leaped aside and shouted STOP it actually still touched me - just. I hadn't seen the driver, nor him me as I passed his nearside rear quarter. At least I would probably have heard a proper car start up, or at least make some noise that it was "alive". A local young toddler was killed by a parent reveresing down their drive last week.
Electric Cars II - Not Silly!
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ExSp33db1rd
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Re: Electric Cars II - Not Silly!
I believe that it is a legal requirement in the UK for battery-powered vehicles to generate a noise when manoeuvring at low speed.
Re: Electric Cars II - Not Silly!
btw, are there any regulations for drivers who are deaf? Like, I'm an 'old school' gal and need to hear what the engine is telling me - can't imagine driving without noise?
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Pinky the pilot
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Re: Electric Cars II - Not Silly!
I have not read the entire thread so I do not know if anyone else has posted the same opinion, but it is my view that in around 10 to 15 years Electrical Vehicles will be seen to be the biggest, sickest, idiotic joke ever propogated on Humanity that has ever been! 
Just my opinion.
Like, I can really see Electrically powered Road Trains delivering Freight across the Nullabor Plains or going up through Central Australia from Adelaide to Darwin. Or up the Birdsville Track!
Or Electically powered cars driving from where I live to Adelaide, driving around the City and driving back, all in less than 12 hours. (Total distance over 500km, with lots of starts and stops.)
Just my opinion.
Like, I can really see Electrically powered Road Trains delivering Freight across the Nullabor Plains or going up through Central Australia from Adelaide to Darwin. Or up the Birdsville Track!
Or Electically powered cars driving from where I live to Adelaide, driving around the City and driving back, all in less than 12 hours. (Total distance over 500km, with lots of starts and stops.)
You only live twice. Once when you're born. Once when you've looked death in the face.
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1DC
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Re: Electric Cars II - Not Silly!
Mrs 1 DC has a Lexus hybrid, I call it a Mickey Mouse hybrid. It has electric motors on each wheel a battery somewhere that is topped up when braking or coasting or similar. It will do a mile or two on electricity but the idea is to improve the mpg by battery power. However to get to the point, when you start up and need to go astern either out of the garage or a car parking space it usually does it on electricity and by law has to make a noise. The noise it makes is similar to a motor with seized bearings and certainly gets your attention. The first time we experienced it was when Mrs 1DC backed it of her garage and we immediately telephoned the Lexus dealer to tell them that something was wrong with the car, but now we know!!
Speedbird would certainly have known she was coming!
Speedbird would certainly have known she was coming!
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Fox3WheresMyBanana
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Re: Electric Cars II - Not Silly!
EVs are just a tiny subset of Anthropogenic Global Warming.Electrical Vehicles will be seen to be the biggest, sickest, idiotic joke
Then you have Mass Immigration, and DEI, and Covid, and the Mass Media, and 'Representative' Democracy, etc.
EVs will be a very minor joke in retrospect, and not very funny.
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OFSO
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Re: Electric Cars II - Not Silly!
Catalan TV news reports that around 35% of all public chargers are out of service at any time.
Re: Electric Cars II - Not Silly!
No surprise. Just about anything "public" and government run, including the government itself, is out of service most of the time.
Because they stand on the wall and say "nothing's gonna hurt you tonight, not on my watch".
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Fox3WheresMyBanana
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Re: Electric Cars II - Not Silly!
More on EVs and The Cold, and this is only -18C
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... batteries/
Teslas left abandoned as extreme cold drains batteries
Owners in Chicago have ditched their cars after charging stations struggled to cope with plummeting temperatures
Teslas were left abandoned by US drivers after charging stations struggled to cope with the arctic weather sweeping across swaths of the country.
Charging a Tesla should take around 45 minutes, but according to motorists the electric cars have needed to be plugged in for at least two hours amid the icy conditions.
The issue has caused some owners in Chicago to ditch their cars on the roadside after temperatures in the city plummeted to -18C (0F), marking its coldest snap since 1996.
Tow trucks were sent to move the stricken vehicles, while lengthy queues built up at charging stations.
“I’ve been here for over five hours at this point and I still have not gotten to charge my car,” Tesla driver Brandon Welbourne told CBS News Chicago.
Mr Welbourne added he had seen at least 10 of the vehicles, which cost upwards of $38,990 (£30,841) a piece, being towed away after their batteries died.
Fellow owner Tyler Beard told Fox 32 that his car battery had remained on 0 per cent despite trying to charge it for three hours for two days in succession.
“This is crazy. It’s a disaster,” Chalis Mizelle, told the same outlet, before abandoning her car and hitching a ride with a friend.
Tesla manuals provide extensive advice on how to cope with cold weather.
Its mobile app has a setting for defrosting a car, which is also intended to warm each vehicle’s high-voltage battery if necessary.
Cold weather can use up more of the battery’s power because it is needed to heat the car as well as power the engine.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... batteries/
Re: Electric Cars II - Not Silly!
A comparison of petrol v electric c/o here in OZ.
https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-compar ... as-cheaper
https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-compar ... as-cheaper
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OFSO
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Re: Electric Cars II - Not Silly!
"Experts acknowledge that cold weather can be hard for EVs, but they say with some planning and a little adjustment, owners should be able to travel pretty much as normal."
Oddly enough with no planning and no adjustments I've been able to travel completely as normal for many years - including 25 years in mid -European winters in my diesel cars.
When will these arrogant and sanctimonious promoters of electric vehicles understand !
Oddly enough with no planning and no adjustments I've been able to travel completely as normal for many years - including 25 years in mid -European winters in my diesel cars.
When will these arrogant and sanctimonious promoters of electric vehicles understand !
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Fox3WheresMyBanana
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Re: Electric Cars II - Not Silly!
It is very difficult for someone to understand something when their job depends on them not understanding it.
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Rwy in Sight
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Re: Electric Cars II - Not Silly!
And obviously the definition of difficulties depends on who has to to cope with those difficulties - if adjustments for the winter are explained in a warm office or a different beast than having to cope with freezing fingers and below zero temperatures.
Re: Electric Cars II - Not Silly!
Teslas crash more than gas-powered cars. Here’s why
https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/18/business ... index.html
Hertz recently announced it was selling 20,000 electric cars out of its fleet, and replacing them with gasoline vehicles. One reason the company gave was that drivers kept crashing the cars.
Hertz CEO Stephen Scherr noted that the costs of repairs of an electric vehicle are also much higher. And Hertz’s step back from EV sales indicate a broader problem for the EV industry. Researchers at LexisNexis Risk Solutions looking at insurance data have found that, evidently, rental car drivers aren’t the only ones having issues keeping EVs in one piece.
Scherr’s statements echoed findings by insurance analysts at LexisNexis who found that, when vehicle owners switch from gasoline-powered cars to electric cars, they tend to crash more. Drivers also tend to crash somewhat more when switching to gas-powered vehicles, too, but the increase is more pronounced with EVs. The frequency of insurance claims rises by about 14.3% while the severity of claims, or the amount that has to be paid out, increases by 14.5%, according to the data.
The increase in incidents is highest during the first year or so after drivers get the new electric vehicle, but then tapers off after that, according to LexisNexis, presumably as people get used to driving the new model. There is much less of a problem when a driver changes from a gasoline-powered vehicle to another gas-powered one, they found.
Mostly a Tesla thing
In both cases – with Hertz and with LexisNexis – “electric vehicles” largely means Teslas. Teslas accounted for 80% of Hertz’s EV fleet. Among privately owned electric vehicles, Teslas also make up the majority, given that they make up the majority of all new EVs sold in the US.
That suggests there may be something about Teslas that’s causing people to crash more than other cars. But LexisNexis researchers had previously noticed similar trends in China, where there are many more EVs – including more that aren’t Teslas.
In its research, LexisNexis looked at insurance claims for new electric vehicles that replaced a gas vehicle in a household. As much as possible, the analysts tried to even out other variables such as driver age, household income, and the level of insurance.
Crashes are even more frequent in households with both a gas and an electric model, indicating that regularly switching from one to another exacerbates the issues. And the fact that crash frequency lessens with time also suggests that unfamiliarity has something to do with it, said Xiaohui Lu, head of EV research at LexisNexis Risk Solutions,
The Highway Loss Data Institute, a US-based organization funded by the insurance industry, has not found higher crash rates for Tesla vehicles or other EVs more broadly based on overall insurance claims. Teslas do tend to have higher claim costs, though, according to the HLDI.
EV driving quirks
In many ways, there is little difference between driving an internal combustion-powered vehicle and an electric model like a Tesla. There is a brake pedal and an accelerator pedal and a steering wheel. But there are some key differences between driving a Tesla, as well as some other electric models, and driving gasoline-powered cars.
For instance, Tesla vehicles do not have a “Start” button to turn the vehicle on and off. Instead, once the driver sits in the vehicle it is instantly on and is ready to drive. When the driver gets out, the vehicle turns itself off. Since it’s an electric vehicle, meaning there’s no engine sound or vibration, the difference between on and off can sometimes be harder to discern.
Perhaps more importantly, for insurance purposes, said Lu, Teslas are fast. With their powerful electric motors, they can accelerate much more quickly than typical gasoline-powered vehicles.
For instance, a Tesla Model 3 Long Range, not even a particularly performance-oriented version, can go from zero to 60 miles an hour in 4.1 seconds, according to Car and Driver. The BMW 330i, by comparison, takes more than a second longer to reach that speed. The Tesla Model 3 Performance can do it in 3.1 seconds, according to Car and Driver’s tests. That kind of quickness was, before Tesla, associated with high-performance sports cars.
In the insurance business, there is a long-established connection between horsepower and the frequency and amount of insurance claims. Fast cars hit things more often and they hit them harder, leading to more – and more severe – crashes. Added to this, EVs lack the usual engine sounds that go along with rapid acceleration and high speeds, so it’s conceivable drivers are less aware of how fast they’re going.
Besides their added speed, EVs are also heavier than gas-powered vehicles because of their large, dense battery packs. That also leads to more damage in the vehicles the EV hits resulting in higher insurance claims.
High speeds aren’t even necessarily the issue, said Lu. Controlling speed is especially critical in low-speed environments, like a parking garages, with other cars and concrete posts all around. With gas cars, starting off from a stop requires the engine to rev up a bit before the car can start moving. Not so with EVs, which respond differently to pedal pressure.
“Most drivers are trained in driving [internal combustion] vehicles and they’re applying the habitual amount of pressure on the driving pedal but the behavior is very different, particularly in low-speed zones,” said Lu.
Electric vehicles can also have so-called “one-pedal driving” that slows the vehicle rapidly when the driver lifts off the accelerator pedal rather than simply allowing it to coast. Getting used to using just one pedal for both starting and stopping can lead to confusion in emergency situations when a quick slam on the actual brake pedal is needed.
Most drivers probably feel comfortable driving their new EVs with much less than three years of experience, said Lu.
But the research data indicates that confidence may be misplaced.
PP
https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/18/business ... index.html
Hertz recently announced it was selling 20,000 electric cars out of its fleet, and replacing them with gasoline vehicles. One reason the company gave was that drivers kept crashing the cars.
Hertz CEO Stephen Scherr noted that the costs of repairs of an electric vehicle are also much higher. And Hertz’s step back from EV sales indicate a broader problem for the EV industry. Researchers at LexisNexis Risk Solutions looking at insurance data have found that, evidently, rental car drivers aren’t the only ones having issues keeping EVs in one piece.
Scherr’s statements echoed findings by insurance analysts at LexisNexis who found that, when vehicle owners switch from gasoline-powered cars to electric cars, they tend to crash more. Drivers also tend to crash somewhat more when switching to gas-powered vehicles, too, but the increase is more pronounced with EVs. The frequency of insurance claims rises by about 14.3% while the severity of claims, or the amount that has to be paid out, increases by 14.5%, according to the data.
The increase in incidents is highest during the first year or so after drivers get the new electric vehicle, but then tapers off after that, according to LexisNexis, presumably as people get used to driving the new model. There is much less of a problem when a driver changes from a gasoline-powered vehicle to another gas-powered one, they found.
Mostly a Tesla thing
In both cases – with Hertz and with LexisNexis – “electric vehicles” largely means Teslas. Teslas accounted for 80% of Hertz’s EV fleet. Among privately owned electric vehicles, Teslas also make up the majority, given that they make up the majority of all new EVs sold in the US.
That suggests there may be something about Teslas that’s causing people to crash more than other cars. But LexisNexis researchers had previously noticed similar trends in China, where there are many more EVs – including more that aren’t Teslas.
In its research, LexisNexis looked at insurance claims for new electric vehicles that replaced a gas vehicle in a household. As much as possible, the analysts tried to even out other variables such as driver age, household income, and the level of insurance.
Crashes are even more frequent in households with both a gas and an electric model, indicating that regularly switching from one to another exacerbates the issues. And the fact that crash frequency lessens with time also suggests that unfamiliarity has something to do with it, said Xiaohui Lu, head of EV research at LexisNexis Risk Solutions,
The Highway Loss Data Institute, a US-based organization funded by the insurance industry, has not found higher crash rates for Tesla vehicles or other EVs more broadly based on overall insurance claims. Teslas do tend to have higher claim costs, though, according to the HLDI.
EV driving quirks
In many ways, there is little difference between driving an internal combustion-powered vehicle and an electric model like a Tesla. There is a brake pedal and an accelerator pedal and a steering wheel. But there are some key differences between driving a Tesla, as well as some other electric models, and driving gasoline-powered cars.
For instance, Tesla vehicles do not have a “Start” button to turn the vehicle on and off. Instead, once the driver sits in the vehicle it is instantly on and is ready to drive. When the driver gets out, the vehicle turns itself off. Since it’s an electric vehicle, meaning there’s no engine sound or vibration, the difference between on and off can sometimes be harder to discern.
Perhaps more importantly, for insurance purposes, said Lu, Teslas are fast. With their powerful electric motors, they can accelerate much more quickly than typical gasoline-powered vehicles.
For instance, a Tesla Model 3 Long Range, not even a particularly performance-oriented version, can go from zero to 60 miles an hour in 4.1 seconds, according to Car and Driver. The BMW 330i, by comparison, takes more than a second longer to reach that speed. The Tesla Model 3 Performance can do it in 3.1 seconds, according to Car and Driver’s tests. That kind of quickness was, before Tesla, associated with high-performance sports cars.
In the insurance business, there is a long-established connection between horsepower and the frequency and amount of insurance claims. Fast cars hit things more often and they hit them harder, leading to more – and more severe – crashes. Added to this, EVs lack the usual engine sounds that go along with rapid acceleration and high speeds, so it’s conceivable drivers are less aware of how fast they’re going.
Besides their added speed, EVs are also heavier than gas-powered vehicles because of their large, dense battery packs. That also leads to more damage in the vehicles the EV hits resulting in higher insurance claims.
High speeds aren’t even necessarily the issue, said Lu. Controlling speed is especially critical in low-speed environments, like a parking garages, with other cars and concrete posts all around. With gas cars, starting off from a stop requires the engine to rev up a bit before the car can start moving. Not so with EVs, which respond differently to pedal pressure.
“Most drivers are trained in driving [internal combustion] vehicles and they’re applying the habitual amount of pressure on the driving pedal but the behavior is very different, particularly in low-speed zones,” said Lu.
Electric vehicles can also have so-called “one-pedal driving” that slows the vehicle rapidly when the driver lifts off the accelerator pedal rather than simply allowing it to coast. Getting used to using just one pedal for both starting and stopping can lead to confusion in emergency situations when a quick slam on the actual brake pedal is needed.
Most drivers probably feel comfortable driving their new EVs with much less than three years of experience, said Lu.
But the research data indicates that confidence may be misplaced.
PP
Re: Electric Cars II - Not Silly!
Ford is cutting back F-150 Lightning electric truck production
https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/19/business ... index.html
Ford will shut down one of two production shifts in April at the Dearborn, Michigan, factory that builds the F-150 Lightning electric pickup. The move is part of “matching F-150 Lightning production to customer demand,” the company said Friday.
General Motors recently made a similar announcement about its Chevrolet Silverado EV, announcing it would postpone adding production facilities for the truck, which went into production last spring for corporate customers.
While sales of electric vehicles increased in 2023, the growth was slower than many industry experts had expected. Ford still projects an increase in Lightning sales this year after a 55% jump to 24,000 trucks last year. The company did not say how many F-150 Lightnings it expects to sell this year.
The 24,000 in Lightning sales is still a small fraction of overall Ford F-series pickup sales. The F-series is Ford’s best-selling product line and has been the best selling vehicle of any kind in the United States for almost 50 years. Last year, Ford sold more than 750,000 F-series truck.
The price of a Lightning starts at about $50,000 and is eligible for $7,500 in federal EV tax credits. Even with the tax credits, the price remains higher than the $34,000 base price of the gas-powered truck.
Ford has raised and lowered the price of the Lightning several times since it hit the market in 2022, starting at about $40,000 for its least expensive model, the Lightning Pro. In July, Ford slashed the price of a Lightning Pro, following earlier increases, to about $50,000.
About 1,400 workers will be cut from the Rouge Electric Vehicle Center, where the Lightning is built. About half of those employees will move to the nearby Michigan Assembly Plant, where production will increase for the gasoline-powered Ford Bronco and Ranger models.
Others workers will be shifted to different jobs within the Rouge complex, which includes a factory where gas-powered F-150 trucks are built. Some of the employees could take advantage of retirement packages agreed to as part of new United Auto Workers contracts signed in October
While Ford has said it is building factories in Tennessee and Kentucky where a next-generation EV truck will be built, the company recently announced it would scale back plans for an EV battery plant in Michigan.
“We see a bright future for electric vehicles for specific consumers, especially with our upcoming digitally advanced EVs and access to Tesla’s charging network beginning this quarter,” Ford chief executive Jim Farley said in the announcement.
Meanwhile, Stellantis CEO Carlos Tavares told reporters Friday that the automaker has no plans to slow down its upcoming EV production, although the pace of adoption could change as a result of the US presidential and European parliament elections this year.
“I’ve prepared two scenarios, based on what what would be the results of those major elections in Europe and the United States. I’m ready for both scenarios. It’s an acceleration scenario and a slowdown scenario,” Tavares said. “I have no scenario where it would stop because we need to fix the global warming issue.”
Stellantis’ own electric pickup, the Ram 1500 Rev, will go on sale later this year, along with a plug-in hybrid version, the Ram 1500 Ramcharger.
PP
https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/19/business ... index.html
Ford will shut down one of two production shifts in April at the Dearborn, Michigan, factory that builds the F-150 Lightning electric pickup. The move is part of “matching F-150 Lightning production to customer demand,” the company said Friday.
General Motors recently made a similar announcement about its Chevrolet Silverado EV, announcing it would postpone adding production facilities for the truck, which went into production last spring for corporate customers.
While sales of electric vehicles increased in 2023, the growth was slower than many industry experts had expected. Ford still projects an increase in Lightning sales this year after a 55% jump to 24,000 trucks last year. The company did not say how many F-150 Lightnings it expects to sell this year.
The 24,000 in Lightning sales is still a small fraction of overall Ford F-series pickup sales. The F-series is Ford’s best-selling product line and has been the best selling vehicle of any kind in the United States for almost 50 years. Last year, Ford sold more than 750,000 F-series truck.
The price of a Lightning starts at about $50,000 and is eligible for $7,500 in federal EV tax credits. Even with the tax credits, the price remains higher than the $34,000 base price of the gas-powered truck.
Ford has raised and lowered the price of the Lightning several times since it hit the market in 2022, starting at about $40,000 for its least expensive model, the Lightning Pro. In July, Ford slashed the price of a Lightning Pro, following earlier increases, to about $50,000.
About 1,400 workers will be cut from the Rouge Electric Vehicle Center, where the Lightning is built. About half of those employees will move to the nearby Michigan Assembly Plant, where production will increase for the gasoline-powered Ford Bronco and Ranger models.
Others workers will be shifted to different jobs within the Rouge complex, which includes a factory where gas-powered F-150 trucks are built. Some of the employees could take advantage of retirement packages agreed to as part of new United Auto Workers contracts signed in October
While Ford has said it is building factories in Tennessee and Kentucky where a next-generation EV truck will be built, the company recently announced it would scale back plans for an EV battery plant in Michigan.
“We see a bright future for electric vehicles for specific consumers, especially with our upcoming digitally advanced EVs and access to Tesla’s charging network beginning this quarter,” Ford chief executive Jim Farley said in the announcement.
Meanwhile, Stellantis CEO Carlos Tavares told reporters Friday that the automaker has no plans to slow down its upcoming EV production, although the pace of adoption could change as a result of the US presidential and European parliament elections this year.
“I’ve prepared two scenarios, based on what what would be the results of those major elections in Europe and the United States. I’m ready for both scenarios. It’s an acceleration scenario and a slowdown scenario,” Tavares said. “I have no scenario where it would stop because we need to fix the global warming issue.”
Stellantis’ own electric pickup, the Ram 1500 Rev, will go on sale later this year, along with a plug-in hybrid version, the Ram 1500 Ramcharger.
PP
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Fox3WheresMyBanana
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Fox3WheresMyBanana
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Re: Electric Cars II - Not Silly!
More on fleet EV numbers crashing.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/net-z ... tric-cars/
But buying this many EVs when their drivers couldn't charge them is just stark-staring stupid.
..and with lots of used EVs hitting the market, this crashes the price, increasing the losses for those who still have them. And it may well kill new sales also.
The Government leaning on fleet buyers a few years ago was a big gamble. I think the loss is going to be a lot bigger than they were expecting.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/net-z ... tric-cars/
Addison Lee are very big. They got big by being competitive and being smart.Addison Lee spent £30m on new Volkswagen Multivans, which are plug-in hybrid electric vehicles. However, it soon ran into issues with drivers not having access to public charging.
“Less than 20pc of our drivers have got off-street parking and have the ability to charge overnight,” Griffin says. “For those that don’t, they have got to seek the alternative and that’s when things start to unravel.”
Addison Lee tried to install its own bank of chargers to help drivers. However, “red tape and bureaucracy” meant it took 18 months to install a set of fast chargers at its depot in West Drayton, Griffin says.
But buying this many EVs when their drivers couldn't charge them is just stark-staring stupid.
..and with lots of used EVs hitting the market, this crashes the price, increasing the losses for those who still have them. And it may well kill new sales also.
The Government leaning on fleet buyers a few years ago was a big gamble. I think the loss is going to be a lot bigger than they were expecting.
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Fox3WheresMyBanana
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Re: Electric Cars II - Not Silly!
Electric cars will never account for more than a third of the market and consumers should not be forced to buy them, the boss of Toyota has said.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... et-toyota/
There, somebody big has finally had the guts to say it.
Let's watch the Climate Change loonies try to spin that one.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... et-toyota/
There, somebody big has finally had the guts to say it.
Let's watch the Climate Change loonies try to spin that one.
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OFSO
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Re: Electric Cars II - Not Silly!
"An electric bus has caught fire in London, making it the third to burst into flames in the capital this month.
Firefighters tackled the flames engulfing the single-deck bus at a bus garage on Chelverton Road in Putney on Wednesday."
I sit near the exit doors on the 281 hybrid bus from Kingston.
Firefighters tackled the flames engulfing the single-deck bus at a bus garage on Chelverton Road in Putney on Wednesday."
I sit near the exit doors on the 281 hybrid bus from Kingston.