Electric Cars II - Not Silly!

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

I have a 16 yo F-150 half-ton, now too rusty for the road, and to be used only on my property, mainly as a plow truck.
It served me well, and more than paid for itself. It is about the smallest truck around here, with many being 3/4-ton or more powerful half-tons.
Pretty much every truck gets used for its primary purpose regularly, often to the load and towing limits.
If people use a truck to pop to the supermarket, it's because they only own one vehicle.
There are some blinged-up trucks, but they all do real work at least occasionally.
The poseurs drive souped-up sedans or SUVs
The giveaway is low ground clearance, because no one living rurally spends a lot of money on something that can't drive over snow-covered or dirt roads.

[OFSO]

Common misconception: It stands to reason that electric vehicle powertrains should have fewer problems than internal combustion engines. After all, they don't have to withstand thousands of tiny explosions every second the motor runs. In fact, unlike ICE-driven vehicles, there are no moving parts or other stressors while the car is idling.

Unfortunately, it seems that aside from hybrids, plug-in hybrids (PHEVs) and fully electric vehicles (EVs) are far less reliable than combustion engines. The study comes from reliable consumer watchdog Consumer Reports. In a recent survey, CR studied 330,000 vehicles, looking at 20 common automotive issues, from minor problems like squeaky brakes to major repairs like out-of-warranty engine and transmission problems. It ranked each car from zero to 100 on reliability, taking severity into account.

The five least reliable manufacturers were Jeep (26), Volkswagen (26), Rivian (24), Mercedes-Benz (23), and Chrysler (18). Bear in mind that these are average scores and that most manufacturers, including US automakers, had models scoring above average overall.

By region, Japan continues to lead in overall reliability with a score of 63 – that's 17 points ahead of second-ranked Europe with 46. The top 10 most reliable makes come from Japan and Europe, seven to three, respectively. Stateside automakers trail behind with a miserable average reliability score of 39 and not having a single car in the top ten.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

If you want reliability and maintainability, then a pre-1970s vehicle is the answer!
There are a lot around here, especially 1950s.
There are two 'General Lee's that I frequently see.

200px-General_Lee.JPG (10.89 KiB) Viewed 4015 times

For the most part, these are vehicles that have been in the family since new.
There's even one guy uses a 1930s Ford Model A as his 'daily' driver, although he only usually heads out once a week now. It was his father's originally.
There's also a major breaker's yard with stacks of these, so parts aren't a problem.
I am thinking of getting something out of the yard and restoring it, just as a runabout rather than a concours competitor.

[Hydromet]

Fox3, when D1 lived in Tokyo her unit overlooked an establishment called Garage Rats. It seemed to be a place that rented 1950s American cars, probably from the days when there was a large US prescence there. Hours of entertainment watching the teenage employees re-shuffling the cars, which were jam-packed in the yard.

Garage Rats.jpg (37.74 KiB) Viewed 4008 times

[PHXPhlyer]

Adding to OFSO's post above:

Electric cars are having more problems, but not because they’re electric

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/04/business ... index.html

Electric vehicles have 79% more problems than other vehicles, according to Consumer Reports’ latest annual auto reliability survey. But the problem isn’t really because they’re electric, said Jake Fisher, director of the group’s auto testing center.

The problems arise because electric cars are mostly new models, and recently-introduced car models generally tend to have more issues, regardless of what propels them. Car companies haven’t had years to work out all the kinks as they have the models they’ve been producing for years.

Besides that, electric vehicles tend to be higher priced models with more sophisticated technology features, from additional safety sensors to more gadgets and doo-dads. All those fancy features present more opportunities for stuff to go wrong.

“If you look at EVs, they tend to be very loaded with new technology, all the latest gizmos and screens,” said Fisher.

EV owners report problems with batteries and charging, as well, but that’s still largely the result of the newness of these vehicles, too, said Fisher. It’s not that the technology is inherently problematic.

“If all the manufacturers had been building electric cars for 100 years, and then suddenly one of them decided to build an internal combustion engine with a transmission, it’d be riddled with problems,” said Fisher.

Consumer Reports surveys its subscribers annually about their experiences with their 330,000 individual vehicles. The final results are calculated based on the combined data from the three most recent years. For models that are very new, past reliability data for the manufacturer, overall, can be used to supplement data for the new model.

Electric pickup trucks, in particular, tended to fare the worst in Consumer Reports’ reliability survey. That’s because they exist at the intersection of two particularly unreliable vehicle types, EVs and pickups.

Not all electric vehicles are so unreliable, though, according to Consumer Reports’ survey data. The Tesla Model 3 and Model Y, as well as the Ford Mustang Mach-E, for instance, have average expected reliability. The Nissan Ariya and Hyundai Ioniq 6 have better-than-average expected reliability.

The least reliable models, on average, were plug-in hybrids, according to the survey. The reason for that, according to Consumer Reports, is that, with gas engines, electric motors and charging systems, they’re vulnerable to all the things that can go wrong in either a gas or electric vehicle.

Hybrids that don’t plug in, on the other hand, were the most reliable vehicles of all, Consumer Reports said. That’s largely thanks to the companies that make them

“One of the reasons why hybrids are very reliable is they tend to come from reliable automakers such as Toyota, for sure, and Honda, Hyundai, Kia,” said Fisher.

PP

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

According to my ICE mechanic, many parts are taking ages to arrive, for all vehicles, electric or not. Routine parts like brake calipers are OK, but electrics and electronics parts are especially delayed. Given the amount of them, this would affect EVs somewhat more than ICE. This seems to be a problem with electric parts for anything - household electrical components, like circuit breakers and breaker boxes, have and are experiencing long delays. I know this from personal experience.
Raw copper is only about 33% up on 2020, but copper finished products, e.g. electrical wire, are approximately triple the 2020 prices. I do not know why.

[G-CPTN]

My son bought a secondhand Ford Kuga hybrid from a main dealer.
When he charged the traction battery (at home) it flattened the 12volt vehicle battery - and repeated this several times.
Of course it was covered by a warranty, but it was a nuisance.

[llondel]

It's eased now, but for a while there was a world shortage of semiconductors, and a lot of car manufacturers were having to cut back on production because they couldn't get the electronics they needed. I suspect that with supply chain delays (as in, it still takes time from when the components arrive to assemble them, test them, ship them and have them arrive), it wouldn't surprise me that there are still shortages.

[1DC]

Mrs 1DC recently took delivery of a new Lexus it arrived with one smart key and one emergency mechanical key. A letter in the key box said that due to chip shortages she would have to wait approximately two months for her second smart key. If an emergency arose they would endeavour to expedite this. The dealer said this is standard practice at the moment.

[talmacapt]

Not a car but a phone.

I went for a walk yesterday, in -16, with my iphone 6S in my padded trouser pocket next to my thigh.

The trousers were under a thick swandown coat.

All apps were closed and the phone was not used during the journey.

Before departure the phone had 78% battery left, after return there was 10% battery left.

The walk lasted about 70minutes.

I shall not be buying an electric car for a while.

[Hydromet]

The walk lasted about 70minutes.

I shall not be buying an electric car for a while.

In that temperature, I wouldn't be going for a walk! I cannot imagine temperatures that low.

[talmacapt]

That's not low, in a month or so I will go ice fishing on lake Ivalo.

It will be -30 or below and has been as low as -42.

There has to be no wind, which there usually isn't at those temperatures.

[llondel]

Oops...

The most affordable pure electric vehicle on the market, the GWM (Great Wall Motors) Ora, has been recalled in New Zealand over a potential software fault that can lead to owners getting electrocuted when unplugging the car.

“Due to a programming issue, if the operator removes the charging cable without cancelling the charge, an electrical arc between the charging plug and the vehicle may occur,” reads the Ora’s recall notice issued this week in Australia.

“If an electrical arc comes into contact with the operator or bystanders it will increase the risk of serious injury or death.”

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/133411 ... ute-people

[Woody]

I'm surprised Tesla hasn't recruited Sunak. Then they wouldn't have to recall anything.

[OFSO]

Never mind posting here Woody. Pop over to Terminal Five to meet 0475 at 15:30 with the tinkling G&Ts and an electric buggy for Mme...

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

EV Cybertruck gets stuck fetching a Christmas tree.
Gets rescued by ICE F-150.



Note the cybertrud has no winch, so can't self-rescue.
You can get an aftermarket one, but it needs a different front bumper. $4,000 to you, Squire, plus tax.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Price of Lithium Carbonate has dropped 78% in the last year.
There is no demand for EVs and all manufacturers are dialling back forecast construction.
Since the miners were geared up for expanding demand, there's now a huge glut of raw lithium ore.
Of course, this can't filter through to new vehicle prices until all the current ones crowding lots have been sold....

[Woody]

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://ww ... oI0vt_478N

[PHXPhlyer]

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://ww ... oI0vt_478N

A candidate for the Stupid Thread as well.

PP

[PHXPhlyer]

China’s BYD is selling more electric cars than Tesla

https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/02/cars/chi ... index.html

BYD overtook Tesla to become the world’s biggest electric car company in the final quarter of 2023.

The Chinese company sold a record number of cars last year, including 525,409 battery electric vehicles (BEVs) in the three-month period to December 31, according to a stock exchange filing. Tesla said Tuesday it delivered 484,507 — also a record — during the quarter.

Over the year as a whole Elon Musk’s Tesla (TSLA) still outpaced BYD, selling 1.8 million electric cars. BYD sold 1.57 million electric vehicles, up 73% on 2022, as well as 1.44 million hybrids.

But that means Tesla’s gap over its Chinese rival, at about 230,000 units in 2023, was significantly narrower than the 400,000 units posted in 2022.

The rapid growth of BYD, which is backed by Warren Buffett, is a symbol of China’s rising EV industry.

China is progressing quickly in its transition to electric vehicles, thanks to strong government support for the industry. And its carmakers have been pushing into Europe to the alarm of traditional rivals such as Volkswagen and Renault. EU policymakers have launched an investigation into Chinese state subsidies.

Beijing has set a target that at least 20% of new cars sold annually in China by 2025 should be new energy vehicles (NEVs), which include BEVs, plug-in hybrids and hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. By 2035, the government says, NEVs should become the “mainstream” of new car sales.

The first goal was achieved in 2022, about three years early. The second may also be reached earlier than expected.

In the first 11 months of 2023, 8.3 million units of new energy vehicles were sold, accounting for more than 30% of total car sales, according to data released last month by the China Association of Auto Manufacturers.

Miao Wei, former minister of China’s Ministry of Industry and Information Technology, said at a car forum in November that the government’s NEV penetration target of 50% by 2035 is likely to be achieved by 2025 or 2026 at the latest, according to state media.

Volkswagen is losing the electric car race to Tesla and China
China’s leading role in the global industry is also thanks to its market scale, cheap labor and supply chain dominance, according to analysts.

“China is now leading in production and increasing its comparative edges, banking on its massive domestic market and the first mover advantage,” analysts from Natixis Asia, a French investment bank, wrote in a report in late November.

Its first mover advantage and government support through infrastructure investment and subsidies have made it easy for Chinese EV makers to expand domestically and internationally, they said.

However, intensifying competition and a brutal price war last year have impacted the profit margins of many car makers.


As China’s economy lost momentum, automakers were concerned about a demand slowdown. In January, Tesla cut prices in China to attract customers and stem slowing growth, triggering a price war. Dozens of auto makers followed suit to stay competitive.

The price war has driven up sales, but threatened industry-wide profitability. For the first 11 months of last year, China’s car industry recorded a profit margin of just 5%, lower than 2022’s 5.7% and 2021’s 6.1%, according to figures published by the Chinese Passenger Car Association, a government-backed industry group.

To offset the slowing domestic market, Chinese car makers have been seeking growth outside the mainland by expanding in Europe, Australia and Southeast Asia.

BYD sent a big delegation to a car show in Germany last September. A spokesman said then that the company was aiming to double the number of dealer partners in Europe in 2023 and was targeting overseas sales of 250,000, up from about 56,000 in 2022.

Last month, it announced it would build an EV factory in Hungary, which would be its first passenger car plant in Europe. It already has a bus factory in Komárom, Hungary.

PP