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Electric Cars II - Not Silly!
- Woody
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Re: Electric Cars II - Not Silly!
When all else fails, read the instructions.
- Fox3WheresMyBanana
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Re: Electric Cars II - Not Silly!
Governments have cheerfully given approval, and subsidies, to electric vehicles without any practical requirement to test range comprehensively for electric vehicles, whereas they do require such figures from ICE vehicles.
Tests by individuals have shown not only what figures the manufacturers publish to be way off in cold temperatures, but also the indicated range in the vehicle is seriously at fault.
The same goes for range when towing.
This is not a minor complaint. When it's seriously cold, this is life-or-death stuff.
Electric vehicles are a cult, not a serious mode of transport for families or individuals who have only one vehicle, a median income, and travel outside cities in cold weather.
That governments should use taxpayer money to fund them is unconscionable. There's no evidence at all that the costs are coming down to a range where normal folk can afford them as a sole vehicle, certainly not where it gets cold.
As for all the consequences for a nation if everyone could switch to electric, like charging at home for people who don't have off-road parking, or the effects on the National Grid, there's been no serious work done at all. Actually, there probably has, and they daren't publish it.
Tests by individuals have shown not only what figures the manufacturers publish to be way off in cold temperatures, but also the indicated range in the vehicle is seriously at fault.
The same goes for range when towing.
This is not a minor complaint. When it's seriously cold, this is life-or-death stuff.
Electric vehicles are a cult, not a serious mode of transport for families or individuals who have only one vehicle, a median income, and travel outside cities in cold weather.
That governments should use taxpayer money to fund them is unconscionable. There's no evidence at all that the costs are coming down to a range where normal folk can afford them as a sole vehicle, certainly not where it gets cold.
As for all the consequences for a nation if everyone could switch to electric, like charging at home for people who don't have off-road parking, or the effects on the National Grid, there's been no serious work done at all. Actually, there probably has, and they daren't publish it.
- OFSO
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Re: Electric Cars II - Not Silly!
All very true. A suspect report* arrived on my phone this afternoon to say that in most countries pure electric vehicles are now almost (NB) as cheap to buy and run as diesel/petrol cars. I checked Spain, the only country where we operate (two) POVs, and even by the dubious calculations in the report Spain was an exception.
* which I can't find...
* which I can't find...
Re: Electric Cars II - Not Silly!
You missed the point OFSO, and I know you agree with me, try Inari to Kittillä, 163 km with a fuel station, and, possibly, a charging point at each end, trees and not much else between, compacted snow, over gravelwith the possibilty of ice when the temperature is around zero.
Who would set off in an electric car in -40, been there, done it, quite normal and sometimes neccessary in Fnland (needed to get my finger stitched), wouldn't be happy in a Tesla but the Freelander trundled along.
Welcome to Northern Finland.
In case you ask, the local vet was, on a call, 100km north near the Norwegian border.
Aside, I took the ESLA for a spin this aftrnoon, couple+ km in -6, fuel a couple of wines, chicken and salad when I got back.
Who would set off in an electric car in -40, been there, done it, quite normal and sometimes neccessary in Fnland (needed to get my finger stitched), wouldn't be happy in a Tesla but the Freelander trundled along.
Welcome to Northern Finland.
In case you ask, the local vet was, on a call, 100km north near the Norwegian border.
Aside, I took the ESLA for a spin this aftrnoon, couple+ km in -6, fuel a couple of wines, chicken and salad when I got back.
Re: Electric Cars II - Not Silly!
Re read my post.
For clarity, when I cut my finger, with a hand axe while making starter sticks, the temperature was about -25 and the health centre, 3 stitches were required, is about 120 km away.
For clarity, when I cut my finger, with a hand axe while making starter sticks, the temperature was about -25 and the health centre, 3 stitches were required, is about 120 km away.
- OFSO
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Re: Electric Cars II - Not Silly!
Years ago an acquaintance of ours, living alone up in hill country , fell off her horse, broke her leg, and drove her Lada 4x4 down her mountain track to the hospital. These things happen.
- Fox3WheresMyBanana
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Re: Electric Cars II - Not Silly!
I use my hydraulic log splitter for making starter sticks.
It has a separate operating lever and power button so neither hand can be anywhere near the splitter itself.
I wear safety glasses and gloves.
That tells you all you need to know about the current state of my public healthcare "so-called" system.
https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/investigati ... -1.6185951
I used to scuba dive with sharks. Times have changed.
It has a separate operating lever and power button so neither hand can be anywhere near the splitter itself.
I wear safety glasses and gloves.
That tells you all you need to know about the current state of my public healthcare "so-called" system.
https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/investigati ... -1.6185951
I used to scuba dive with sharks. Times have changed.
- OFSO
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Re: Electric Cars II - Not Silly!
Members of a Tesla driver’s Facebook group reported waiting nearly three hours to charge their cars in Tebay.
‘Been here over an hour. Still 15 in front of me in the queue for a charge,’ they said, ‘easily another two hours to wait – minimum.’
On Twitter, a Tesla car owner who braved the queue said: ‘Really upsetting to have whole family wait for two hours to charge car.’
In Westmorland, north-west England, an electric vehicle driver said the scene at a motorway charging station was ‘bedlam’ yesterday.
‘Two-hour 30-minute wait for a charge,’ he said. ‘Worst journey as (a) Tesla driver. Q now 40 deep!’
A Manchester-based user shared a photo of a dizzying queue of Teslas yesterday.
‘UK services this week have been insanely busy for Tesla charging,’ they said.
‘Currently car 15 in a queue of over 20 … but you can always rely on the British public to make an orderly queue.’
Have you faced an hours-long wait to charge your Tesla or electric car? Get in touch by emailing webnews@metro.co.uk or josh.milton@metro.co.uk.
Queues stretching for hours show what it's really like owning a Tesla at Christmas (or any other time of the year if you can't charge at home).
‘Been here over an hour. Still 15 in front of me in the queue for a charge,’ they said, ‘easily another two hours to wait – minimum.’
On Twitter, a Tesla car owner who braved the queue said: ‘Really upsetting to have whole family wait for two hours to charge car.’
In Westmorland, north-west England, an electric vehicle driver said the scene at a motorway charging station was ‘bedlam’ yesterday.
‘Two-hour 30-minute wait for a charge,’ he said. ‘Worst journey as (a) Tesla driver. Q now 40 deep!’
A Manchester-based user shared a photo of a dizzying queue of Teslas yesterday.
‘UK services this week have been insanely busy for Tesla charging,’ they said.
‘Currently car 15 in a queue of over 20 … but you can always rely on the British public to make an orderly queue.’
Have you faced an hours-long wait to charge your Tesla or electric car? Get in touch by emailing webnews@metro.co.uk or josh.milton@metro.co.uk.
Queues stretching for hours show what it's really like owning a Tesla at Christmas (or any other time of the year if you can't charge at home).
- Fox3WheresMyBanana
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Re: Electric Cars II - Not Silly!
Not a problem on the Canadian Prairies - that long a queue and you'll be dead
- ExSp33db1rd
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Re: Electric Cars II - Not Silly!
Not interested. Can't even keep a spare can in the back, as I sometimes do if I think it might be necessary. QED.
- OFSO
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Re: Electric Cars II - Not Silly!
Tech Review yesterday:
"In an ironic twist, the EVs that are supposed to help us beat back climate change by producing zero atmosphere-harming emissions may be more vulnerable to climate-change-produced weather events. Hurricane Ian produced salt-water floods that damaged electric vehicles’ giant lithium-ion batteries (that usually run the entire base of the car) and made them prone to bursting into flames.
It’s something that Tesla, probably the world's leading EV car maker, may want to address in 2023. But that once stalwart leader is now teetering with massive stock losses and a CEO who seems more interested in social media than the EV brand he built. Elon Musk will have to refocus on Tesla in 2023 to save it and help the entire EV market move forward."
"In an ironic twist, the EVs that are supposed to help us beat back climate change by producing zero atmosphere-harming emissions may be more vulnerable to climate-change-produced weather events. Hurricane Ian produced salt-water floods that damaged electric vehicles’ giant lithium-ion batteries (that usually run the entire base of the car) and made them prone to bursting into flames.
It’s something that Tesla, probably the world's leading EV car maker, may want to address in 2023. But that once stalwart leader is now teetering with massive stock losses and a CEO who seems more interested in social media than the EV brand he built. Elon Musk will have to refocus on Tesla in 2023 to save it and help the entire EV market move forward."
- Fox3WheresMyBanana
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Re: Electric Cars II - Not Silly!
Governments are discovering that subsidising everything for political reasons and getting insufficient return on their so-called progress is bankrupting their economy.
I expect we are going to see a lot less subsidies in the next few years, including on electric vehicles, and a lot more taxes, especially on electric vehicles.
But we will probably get a last hurrah in the next 6 months of all sorts of wasteful spending.
My guess is that the adoption of electric vehicles has not yet reached the level needed to make electric vehicle taxing to the same degree as ICE vehicles 'acceptable', and doing so would cause EV vehicle adoption to drop.
That, in turn, would mean continuing with the complete replacement by ICE vehicle bans will become political suicide as the current deadlines approach.
The 'war' on ICE vehicles has already been lost. But, like putin's war on Ukraine, there's potentially years of poverty and misery till it's over.
I expect we are going to see a lot less subsidies in the next few years, including on electric vehicles, and a lot more taxes, especially on electric vehicles.
But we will probably get a last hurrah in the next 6 months of all sorts of wasteful spending.
My guess is that the adoption of electric vehicles has not yet reached the level needed to make electric vehicle taxing to the same degree as ICE vehicles 'acceptable', and doing so would cause EV vehicle adoption to drop.
That, in turn, would mean continuing with the complete replacement by ICE vehicle bans will become political suicide as the current deadlines approach.
The 'war' on ICE vehicles has already been lost. But, like putin's war on Ukraine, there's potentially years of poverty and misery till it's over.
- OFSO
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Re: Electric Cars II - Not Silly!
Wasn't there a member of our fraternity here who bought a lot of Tesla shares? (Rhetorical).
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Re: Electric Cars II - Not Silly!
In principle I am a fan of the notion of the electric car, am impressed by the technology, but I am not prone to set much store by the hype and green wishful thinking, and am underwhelmed by the lack of an effective charging network and also prone to doubt the ability of the power grid to support widespread charging even if there were enough charging points anyway!
I know this is The Daily Fail but there is a modicum of veracity here I think.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... s-how.html
What say the electro heads here?
Edited to say one of our neighbours abandoned their electric car this month despite having a home fast charging point (government subsidised) due to the lack of a local charging infrastructure!
I know this is The Daily Fail but there is a modicum of veracity here I think.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... s-how.html
What say the electro heads here?
Edited to say one of our neighbours abandoned their electric car this month despite having a home fast charging point (government subsidised) due to the lack of a local charging infrastructure!
My necessaries are embark'd: farewell. Adieu! I have too grieved a heart to take a tedious leave.
- barkingmad
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Re: Electric Cars II - Not Silly!
More on the same topic: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... storm.html
- Rwy in Sight
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Re: Electric Cars II - Not Silly!
A member with an electric car here commented I don't remember in which thread about how easy is/was to recharge an electric car, barely more time consuming than a filling with fuel a conventional car. I was smiling reading the article that there is already a wide difference on the standard refueling plugs unlike thermal engine cars.
- OFSO
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Re: Electric Cars II - Not Silly!
So that would be five to ten minutes then for an electric car's full charge sufficient for 1200 kms? Dream on!
- Fox3WheresMyBanana
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Re: Electric Cars II - Not Silly!
Worth remembering that in any genuinely efficient and flexible system, there is little room for either profit or central control.
So what would anyone expect from a government-drived change where large companies want to make big profits?
For example, my government both allows and encourages people to use manual tricycles that can carry shopping, yet imposes a limit on electric bike engine power which makes anything but a single person electric bicycle on reasonably flat terrain impractical. So people stick to using ICE ATVs - unregistered, uninsured, untaxed, uninspected ATVs. The government response was to pay for 15 ATVs for the Mounties to try to catch them. But there are insufficient Mounties for them to be used at all, apart of course for the obligatory annual photo op. The rest sit in the garage, next to the unused RCMP snowmobiles and the unused RCMP RIBs. Needless to say, no one in government has ever even sat on an electric bike or an ATV.
So what would anyone expect from a government-drived change where large companies want to make big profits?
For example, my government both allows and encourages people to use manual tricycles that can carry shopping, yet imposes a limit on electric bike engine power which makes anything but a single person electric bicycle on reasonably flat terrain impractical. So people stick to using ICE ATVs - unregistered, uninsured, untaxed, uninspected ATVs. The government response was to pay for 15 ATVs for the Mounties to try to catch them. But there are insufficient Mounties for them to be used at all, apart of course for the obligatory annual photo op. The rest sit in the garage, next to the unused RCMP snowmobiles and the unused RCMP RIBs. Needless to say, no one in government has ever even sat on an electric bike or an ATV.
- ExSp33db1rd
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Re: Electric Cars II - Not Silly!
The above just re-inforces my decision to have nothing to do with them. Since "moving into town and doing more walking " my use of the car has dropped dramatically this past year, I would reckon that I've done more to reduce my "carbon footprint" than most people, so keep your electric disasters.