Tesla Steps in It in California

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Tesla Steps in It in California

#1 Post by PHXPhlyer » Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:58 am

Tesla made misleading claims about Autopilot and Self Driving, California DMV claims

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/06/business ... index.html

Tesla’s autopilot and self-driving claims are under fire again, this time from the California Department of Motor Vehicles in a complaint it filed on July 28.

The complaint alleges that the company made “untrue or misleading” statements in advertisements on its website by claiming that Tesla vehicles were, or could be, equipped with advanced driver assistance system features.

An instrument panel with the Tesla Motors Inc. 8.0 software update displays an autopilot disengagement warning inside a Model S P90D vehicle in the Brooklyn borough of New York, U.S., on Tuesday, Sept. 20, 2016.
Teslas using driver-assist systems were involved in 273 crashes over the past 9 months, according to NHTSA
The Tesla (TSLA) advertisements ran in marketing materials on the company’s website “on at least five dates” between May 2021 and July 2022, the complaint said.

They included descriptions such as “Autopilot” and “Full Self-Driving Capability” and used such wording as “All you will need to do is get in and tell your car where to go…Your Tesla will figure out the optimal route, navigating urban streets, complex intersections and freeways,” the suit said.

Another claim that the California DMV alleged was misleading said, “The system is designed to be able to conduct short and long-distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver’s seat.”

“These advertisements are a deceptive practice” under California’s Civil Code, the DMV complaint said.

Tesla does not typically respond to requests for comment.

Tesla has published disclaimers from as recently as June warning the features still require active driver supervision, which contradict the “misleading labels and claims,” the complaint added.

Federal investigators expand probe into Tesla Autopilot crashes
Tesla’s advertising actions could cause it to temporarily lose its manufacturer license and special plates number in California, the complaint warned.

Data released in June by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration found there were 273 crashes in the last nine months involving Tesla driver-assist technologies, caused by either its “full self-driving” software or its precursor, Tesla Autopilot.

Of 497 total crashes studied by the NHTSA, 43% of those caused by driver-assist technologies took place in California, the data found.

Tesla’s Autopilot feature comes standard in all of its vehicles, making it one of the industry’s most commonly used autopilot systems. While Tesla reminds drivers to stay alert while using it, a 2021 MIT study revealed that users who used the system were more distracted and looked away from the road more often than when they were driving without the feature.

Tesla has 15 days to respond to the complaint in order to avoid a default decision.

The department said this complaint is separate from an ongoing review of the intended design and technological capabilities of Tesla vehicles.

The Los Angeles Times was first news outlet to report the complaint.

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Re: Tesla Steps in It in California

#2 Post by VP959 » Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:26 am

Anyone that has owned a Tesla knows that the autopilot functionality is a triumph of advertising hype over reality. It is a singularly useless feature for anything other than motorway driving, and even then it has to be treated with extreme suspicion as it is likely to throw a wobbly at shadows across the road from bridges or from the flapping sides of curtainsider trucks. The technology in the car is so far off being autonomous as to be a joke and I don't think there is a hope in hell of it maturing enough for the cars to be certified as self-driving anytime soon. I am not convinced that Tesla's approach of relying almost solely on cameras and visual data processing will ever work that well. The systems that use LIDAR seem to have a lot better performance but Tesla refused to go down that route. The problems with the cameras is that one or more cameras will always drop out if it sees a bit of glare or total darkness. In Spring and Autumn especially it is rare to drive more than ten minutes without getting a camera malfunction warning come up on the screen, usually from one of the side cameras that are very susceptible to being blinded by glare.

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Re: Tesla Steps in It in California

#3 Post by TheGreenAnger » Sun Aug 07, 2022 11:28 am

The triumph of imagination over reality.

California will be looking to claw back some of the tax rebates given to Tesla over the years.
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Re: Tesla Steps in It in California

#4 Post by G-CPTN » Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:36 pm


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Re: Tesla Steps in It in California

#5 Post by PHXPhlyer » Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:04 pm

Tesla’s ‘full self-driving’ feature may have finally met its match

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/15/business ... index.html

“Full self-driving,” the controversially named driver-assist feature from Tesla, may have finally met its match.

Tesla’s foil isn’t a silver-haired US Senator, world-class autonomous driving experts, or some of the country’s preeminent safety advocates. They’ve all warned that “full self-driving” isn’t really full self-driving. The technology is designed to navigate local roads with steering, braking and acceleration, but it requires an attentive human driver who’s ready to take control and correct the system, which “may do the wrong thing at the worst time,” Tesla warns.

But while these critics may have the traditional bully pulpit of the Senate or other institutions, they have no real power to change any policy on their own. An actual impact may instead come from an unglamorous public agency, one that many Americans think of as only capable of offering customers long wait times: the Department of Motor Vehicles. The California DMV has become the first US government entity to formally move against the naming of “full self-driving.”

Automotive regulation has traditionally fallen to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, part of the Department of Transportation, and Congress, which can push NHTSA to regulate specific things like driver-assist technology. But NHTSA and Congress have spent recent years swept away in the excitement and lobbying surrounding a more eye-catching technology — fully autonomous vehicles.

NHTSA has even exempted some robotaxis from its safety standards, and described many potential benefits of these technologies, including improved quality of life, safer roads, shorter commutes, lower energy usage and more access to jobs. It’s claimed in the past that leaving “breathing room for innovation” led to the development of technologies like air bags. Self-driving cars and trucks could, in theory, revolutionize transportation and save millions of lives if crashes become rarer, as supporters of the technology have predicted.

California's DMV appears poised to take action on Tesla's "full self-driving."

The US House of Representatives passed a law related to self-driving cars. It hasn’t acted on the more pedestrian driver-assist technologies.

NHTSA has no standards for these systems, which has effectively left automakers like Tesla to decide what’s safe enough. But there are strong signs in the last year that NHTSA is shifting some of its attention to driver-assist technologies. It announced last summer, for instance, that automakers must report driver-assist crashes.

NHTSA has also cited its powers to protect the public from motor vehicle risks that it received when created in 1970.

“Given the rapid evolution of these technologies and testing of new technologies and features on publicly accessible roads, it is critical for NHTSA to exercise its robust oversight over potential safety defects,” it said.

NHTSA has even taken steps toward standards for one driver-assist feature, automatic emergency braking. But the first major regulatory impact may be from that unlikely candidate, the California Department of Motor Vehicles.

Most Americans’ interactions with their own state DMV is limited to dreary, underfunded offices with long lines and beleaguered staff. Most people are there to fill out forms and pay fees for various bureaucratic duties that the agency undertakes.

But that is not the entirety of the California DMV.

It has long been a leader in regulating autonomous vehicles, largely due to the fact many companies developing autonomous vehicles are based in California. It released its own rules for testing autonomous vehicles in 2015, and hasn’t backed down from conflict.

Uber provoked the DMV in 2017 when it tested autonomous vehicles in San Francisco without a required DMV permit. The DMV revoked Uber’s vehicles’ registrations in response, and Uber pulled its cars from San Francisco streets. (Uber fled to the looser regulations of Arizona, but was kicked out of the state in 2018 after one of its test vehicles was involved in a high-profile fatal crash. It then sold its robotaxi business in 2020.)

Now, the California DMV is flexing the type of muscle that could force Tesla to drop the name “full self-driving,” according to autonomous driving experts.

The DMV recently filed a complaint that says Tesla’s description of its driver-assist technologies, Autopilot and “full self-driving,” is deceptive and grounds for suspending or revoking its license to sell motor vehicles in the state. The risk of losing such a license may force Tesla’s hand. The automaker was founded in California, it’s made most of its cars in California, and its vehicles are among the best-selling in California. “Full self-driving” is even designed to be at its best in California’s San Francisco Bay Area.

Tesla’s use of the words “full self-driving” and “Autopilot,” as well as its descriptors of the technology on its website, suggest the vehicles are autonomous, when they aren’t, the DMV says in its complaint.

Tesla has long qualified the limits of its systems with disclaimers. But the DMV says in its complaint that one Tesla disclaimer “contradicts the original untrue or misleading labels and claims, which is misleading, and does not cure the violation.”

It’s unclear how Tesla and the DMV’s differences might be resolved, and the conflict could include lengthy litigation.

A settlement could include changes to how Tesla talks about the systems on its website, a promise to avoid similar behavior in the future, or even new names for its products, according to Bryant Walker Smith, a professor at the University of South Carolina law school who researches autonomous vehicles.

“Full self-driving describes a system that is used by a driver. That’s making me dizzy,” Smith said. “How can a driver use a full self-driving system?”

Tesla claimed in 2016 that all its new vehicles had the hardware capability for “full self-driving,” and it would soon offer complementary software for the cars to drive themselves. Tesla CEO Elon Musk has said every year from 2015 to 2022 that self-driving Teslas were probably a year or two away. Tesla has released a beta version of “full self-driving” to more than 100,000 drivers, but the software requires constant vigilance as it sometimes makes dangerous decisions.

This is not the first fight over this type of language. A German court ruled in 2020 that Tesla’s language was misleading, which the automaker appealed last year.

Waymo, the self-driving subsidiary of Google’s parent company, stopped using the term “self-driving” in 2021, saying that misuse by other automakers was giving the public a false impression of its capabilities. Waymo began referring to its robotaxis as “fully autonomous.” Waymo, which operates robotaxis in the Phoenix area, does not need a human in the driver’s seat to ensure safe operation.

The California DMV’s actions are officially limited to the state, but the impact could be much greater. It’s routine for California to lead on regulations and for other states to follow, such as vehicle emission standards. California’s large population makes tailoring vehicles just for that state too expensive for most automakers.

“Once you talk about one state investigating, you could talk about 50 states potentially investigating,” said Smith, adding that it will become easier politically and factually. “They’re not putting their necks out.”

Tesla did not respond to a request for comment.

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Re: Tesla Steps in It in California

#6 Post by VP959 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:05 pm

Very good move to outlaw the daft "Full Self-Driving" joke, as it's nothing more than a scam, really. I've driven three or four cars with driver assist systems and they are all much of a muchness and Tesla's autopilot is no better than the systems that other manufacturers refer to as driver assist. I remain convinced that Tesla will not achieve "Full Self-Driving" any time soon, despite their endless promises that it will be delivered to customers at some (always changing) future date.

I never use autopilot now, as it's just far too flaky and prone to false alarms, slamming the brakes on for no reason, etc. The whole thing is a sales gimmick, all a part of the great Tesla technology myth.

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Re: Tesla Steps in It in California

#7 Post by TheGreenAnger » Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:30 pm

VP959 wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:05 pm
Very good move to outlaw the daft "Full Self-Driving" joke, as it's nothing more than a scam, really. I've driven three or four cars with driver assist systems and they are all much of a muchness and Tesla's autopilot is no better than the systems that other manufacturers refer to as driver assist. I remain convinced that Tesla will not achieve "Full Self-Driving" any time soon, despite their endless promises that it will be delivered to customers at some (always changing) future date.

I never use autopilot now, as it's just far too flaky and prone to false alarms, slamming the brakes on for no reason, etc. The whole thing is a sales gimmick, all a part of the great Tesla technology myth.
Far be it for me to doubt a Pretoria Boy's High prodigy... ;)))

Based on empirical evidence of people I trust, I am apt to look at Kia et al.
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Re: Tesla Steps in It in California

#8 Post by PHXPhlyer » Thu Aug 25, 2022 10:54 pm

Tesla ‘full self-driving’ debate escalates with legal threats, banned videos

https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/25/business ... index.html

This month, Tesla fans rushed to defend the automaker after a prominent critic released a video showing one of the company’s cars with the feature it calls “full self-driving” plowing into child-size mannequins. Some fans built or bought mannequins and child-size dummies to use in their own tests. Others asked their kids to stand in front of a Tesla to prove the cars are safe near children.

Some of the videos have drawn scrutiny from YouTube and Tesla. YouTube has taken down several test videos involving actual children, citing safety risks. (Children were not harmed or injured in the published videos.) Now, Tesla wants the video that started it all taken down, too.

Tesla raises price of feature it calls 'full self-driving' to $15,000
The automaker sent a cease-and-desist letter claiming defamation on Aug. 11 to Dan O’Dowd, a software company CEO and outspoken critic of “full self-driving,” demanding that he remove critical videos. O’Dowd had also published an additional video showing similar results on a public street following criticism of his methodology by Tesla supporters.

Tesla deputy general counsel Dinna Eskin warned of legal action if O’Dowd did not comply with the automaker’s demands. The cease-and-desist letter was surfaced Thursday by The Washington Post.

O’Dowd responded to the cease-and-desist with a 1,736-word post in which he pushed back at the suggestion his posts were defamatory, defended his tests and returned barbs from Musk and some Tesla supporters.

“I can afford not to be intimidated by these threats,” O’Dowd said. Elizabeth Markowitz, a spokesperson for the O’Dowd-led Dawn Project, which he calls an effort to make computers safe for humanity, said O’Dowd was also responding to the letter with an extra $2 million devoted to the video’s promotion.

The ongoing clashes online between Tesla’s fans and detractors highlight both the strong reactions elicited by the car company and the ripple effects of it deploying a test version of a disruptive technology to the public. The driver-assistance feature Tesla calls “full self-driving” is designed to navigate local roads with steering, acceleration and braking, but requires an attentive human driver prepared to take control as the system “may do the wrong thing at the worst time,” Tesla warns drivers.

O’Dowd has said he believes the software controlling self-driving cars should be the best ever written. He ran unsuccessfully for US Senate in California earlier this year, with a campaign focused solely on his critique of “full self-driving.” O’Dowd is the founder and CEO of Green Hills Software.

Tesla fan backlash
Tesla fans who felt O’Dowd’s video was unfair took to YouTube to share footage from their own tests.

YouTube removed at least three videos from its service from users other than O’Dowd of adults testing “full self-driving” with children. YouTube spokeswoman Elena Hernandez cited its policies on harmful and dangerous content. “We don’t allow content showing or encouraging minors in harmful situations that may lead to injury, including dangerous stunts, dares, or pranks,” Hernandez said.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration had also taken the uncommon step last week of warning consumers not to test vehicle technology on children.

Tesla's 'full self-driving' feature may have finally met its match
Omar Qazi, who published one test video with two children of parent Tad Park and had the video pulled days later, said on Twitter that he’d appealed the decision. Park declined to comment and Qazi did not respond to a request for comment.

Carmine Cupani, who had two videos pulled by YouTube, said his videos were “harmless” and that he felt YouTube was unfairly targeting Tesla videos. He appealed the decision too, and said YouTube may have had business motivations, though he said he did not know for sure. Cupani pointed to a video available on YouTube of children appearing to jump across buildings. YouTube did not comment on Cupani’s criticism.

Waymo, the self-driving arm of YouTube’s parent company Alphabet, may be a long-term competitor to Tesla in autonomous driving. Waymo spokesman Nick Smith said the company had no involvement in YouTube’s decision.

Jon Herrity, a Tesla fan and Chicago-area parent, told CNN Business that he’s planning to do more tests of “full self-driving” to challenge O’Dowd’s findings, but that he won’t be involving his kids.

Herrity was among the first to respond to O’Dowd with an Aug. 11 video that was the most viewed video ever on his channel, and which YouTube has not taken down. He stuffed some of his six-year-old daughter’s clothing with newspapers and used a balloon for a head. The mannequin was held together with safety pins and duct tape.

“I planned it in 10 minutes, built it in 15 minutes,” Herrity said. “I think a lot of people were laughing at that. They were like, is this guy really serious?”

Herrity followed up with a second video with a new mannequin given concerns that his first mannequin didn’t look human enough.

Herrity said he had second thoughts about a short sequence in his second video when his daughters walked in front of his Tesla while “full self-driving” wasn’t active. The test showed that the car sometimes recognized them on an in-car visualization of the road ahead.

“We really should not be testing with children,” Herrity said. “I could’ve accidentally somehow had some stroke or whatever and suddenly my foot goes on the accelerator or a heart attack or who know what could happen. There’s always that chance.”

He said he bought a inflatable dummy on eBay for future tests, and will rely on adults to assist.

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Re: Tesla Steps in It in California

#9 Post by TheGreenAnger » Fri Aug 26, 2022 3:13 am

Are some Tesla owners part of a self deluding cult (I exclude owners like VP959 who is clearly well aware of the hype underpinning the software claims and appears to like the car for its many other good and proven features) when it comes to some of the advertising hype?

Using children, or any other human being, to prove or disprove the functionality of Tesla automation 'features' on YouTube is a criminal form of negligence, but then so is advertising and installing such an unproven alpha software system in the first place. Musk's hubris is writ large in this, and other aspects of his modus operandi.
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Re: Tesla Steps in It in California

#10 Post by VP959 » Fri Aug 26, 2022 6:45 pm

TheGreenAnger wrote:
Fri Aug 26, 2022 3:13 am
Are some Tesla owners part of a self deluding cult (I exclude owners like VP959 who is clearly well aware of the hype underpinning the software claims and appears to like the car for its many other good and proven features) when it comes to some of the advertising hype?

Using children, or any other human being, to prove or disprove the functionality of Tesla automation 'features' on YouTube is a criminal form of negligence, but then so is advertising and installing such an unproven alpha software system in the first place. Musk's hubris is writ large in this, and other aspects of his modus operandi.
The simple answer is "YES", they are. I dared to be (very politely) critical of the completely broken and downright dangerous autopilot functionality on a Tesla forum a year or so ago. The barrage of abuse and hatred I received wasn't just reserved for replies to my post (which was really just asking for other opinions about the faults) but extended to online stalking on other forums, mountains of spam to my (luckily throw away) email address and even attempts to hack into my PC. Some of the Tesla fanbois are like the very worst kind of demonic religious fanatics, who will not countenance any criticism of the cars or of Elon Musk. No matter how flawed either are, they are worshipped as deities. It is really bizarre behaviour, reminds me a bit of the sort of adulation that Apple products used to get, but amplified by a few orders of magnitude.

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Re: Tesla Steps in It in California

#11 Post by TheGreenAnger » Fri Aug 26, 2022 9:05 pm

It is really bizarre behaviour, reminds me a bit of the sort of adulation that Apple products used to get, but amplified by a few orders of magnitude.

With good men like you as arbiters we have some sense here.
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Re: Tesla Steps in It in California

#12 Post by TheGreenAnger » Sun Aug 28, 2022 4:07 pm

VP959 wrote:
Fri Aug 26, 2022 6:45 pm
TheGreenAnger wrote:
Fri Aug 26, 2022 3:13 am
Are some Tesla owners part of a self deluding cult (I exclude owners like VP959 who is clearly well aware of the hype underpinning the software claims and appears to like the car for its many other good and proven features) when it comes to some of the advertising hype?

Using children, or any other human being, to prove or disprove the functionality of Tesla automation 'features' on YouTube is a criminal form of negligence, but then so is advertising and installing such an unproven alpha software system in the first place. Musk's hubris is writ large in this, and other aspects of his modus operandi.
The simple answer is "YES", they are. I dared to be (very politely) critical of the completely broken and downright dangerous autopilot functionality on a Tesla forum a year or so ago. The barrage of abuse and hatred I received wasn't just reserved for replies to my post (which was really just asking for other opinions about the faults) but extended to online stalking on other forums, mountains of spam to my (luckily throw away) email address and even attempts to hack into my PC. Some of the Tesla fanbois are like the very worst kind of demonic religious fanatics, who will not countenance any criticism of the cars or of Elon Musk. No matter how flawed either are, they are worshipped as deities. It is really bizarre behaviour, reminds me a bit of the sort of adulation that Apple products used to get, but amplified by a few orders of magnitude.
I was apt to think about this tech. cultism. It transcends electronics and embraces cars (vide. the old Ford, Holden physical, literally, battles in Australia etc.) and, in fact, pretty much any form of tribalism we silly humans are apt to adopt. Sorry to hear about your experience VP959.

I must admit I would like to own a good electric car and, yes, I enjoy all the electronic gizmo's but I am not naïve in this area, and working in the maths of simulation, financial sadly, and not in something really interesting like automotive or aviation engineering, I can see why this will be the future, but we are still about +- 20 years away from when we can "drive" eyes closed shut.

One of the other good denizens here, seems to be enjoying his new car (not a Tesla). My interest has been piqued, by him, not only because he is a good bloke, whose technical experience and nous I respect but because I do believe, ultimately it will be so.. Perhaps, despite my doubts, I am becoming an adherent to the "cult!" who knows? :)
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Re: Tesla Steps in It in California

#13 Post by VP959 » Sun Aug 28, 2022 4:38 pm

The car itself is actually very good, apart from some of the automation and gizmos. The autopilot problems are not unique to Tesla, similar false alarms and generally poor functionality are present in other makes that have forms of "intelligent" cruise control. Tesla have just made a rod for their own back by putting out loads of advertising hype about self-driving, that bears no resemblance to reality, at least here in the UK on most of our roads.

The only other slight criticism I have of the car is that it was clearly designed to be driven by a right handed person in the USA. Pretty much everything, including essentials like the wipers, is controlled from the touch screen in the centre of the dash, which for UK cars means using your left hand, perhaps in the dark, to try and find the exact spot on the screen to touch, whilst also trying to see where you're going. Many years ago we learned that there was a need to make cockpit ancillary controls identifiable by touch, wearing gloves (remember all those knobs that were like crosses, spiky golf balls, triangles, etc?). This came from research on ergonomics that showed that pilots were less likely to move the wrong control if they had tactile feedback.

There are no switches or buttons in a Tesla, only the big screen. It looks great, but as a right handed person driving the right hand drive version of the car, that now needs varifocal glasses when driving, I do hanker after proper switches to control things I need to use frequently.

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Re: Tesla Steps in It in California

#14 Post by TheGreenAnger » Sun Aug 28, 2022 4:51 pm

VP959 wrote:
Sun Aug 28, 2022 4:38 pm
The car itself is actually very good, apart from some of the automation and gizmos. The autopilot problems are not unique to Tesla, similar false alarms and generally poor functionality are present in other makes that have forms of "intelligent" cruise control. Tesla have just made a rod for their own back by putting out loads of advertising hype about self-driving, that bears no resemblance to reality, at least here in the UK on most of our roads.

The only other slight criticism I have of the car is that it was clearly designed to be driven by a right handed person in the USA. Pretty much everything, including essentials like the wipers, is controlled from the touch screen in the centre of the dash, which for UK cars means using your left hand, perhaps in the dark, to try and find the exact spot on the screen to touch, whilst also trying to see where you're going. Many years ago we learned that there was a need to make cockpit ancillary controls identifiable by touch, wearing gloves (remember all those knobs that were like crosses, spiky golf balls, triangles, etc?). This came from research on ergonomics that showed that pilots were less likely to move the wrong control if they had tactile feedback.

There are no switches or buttons in a Tesla, only the big screen. It looks great, but as a right handed person driving the right hand drive version of the car, that now needs varifocal glasses when driving, I do hanker after proper switches to control things I need to use frequently.
As a left handed varifocal wearing man, I see, or not, where you are coming from! Fiddling and diddling with little paddle wheels, list boxes and non-binary 2 dimensional screen artefacts and, not obvious things like proper binary switches, is a tedious analogue pain in the proverbial. In a digital age, it is strange that the ergonomics of the interfaces we are faced with in modern cars, aircraft etc. are more obtuse, i.e. not on or off, but somewhere, in many cases, thereabouts, than they were in the 70's even, for goodness sake!
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Re: Tesla Steps in It in California

#15 Post by OFSO » Sun Aug 28, 2022 6:08 pm

There is a flat contiguous panel of push on/off switches in my Mondeo controlling the climate systems. I have stuck small transparent drawer-noise-silencers on some so I can find them without looking.

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Re: Tesla Steps in It in California

#16 Post by Opsboi » Sun Aug 28, 2022 6:11 pm

Elon Musk might be a genius, but he's very possibly deranged

I think he, his companies, his products and his ambitions need more serious independent scrutiny than they seem to be getting

He seems to write his own rules, including the ones about the taxes he doesn't pay anybody

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Re: Tesla Steps in It in California

#17 Post by TheGreenAnger » Sun Aug 28, 2022 6:14 pm

Opsboi wrote:
Sun Aug 28, 2022 6:11 pm
Elon Musk might be a genius, but he's very possibly deranged

I think he, his companies, his products and his ambitions need more serious independent scrutiny than they seem to be getting

He seems to write his own rules, including the ones about the taxes he doesn't pay anybody
+1

He lost any respect that I had for him (he cares I am sure ;))) ) when he belittled and then libeled the British diver that worked in the cave rescue in Asia, and then lied in the US court. Like Trump, he has the money to tie the truth up in knots. He is an appalling human being, and everybody who knew him at Pretoria Boys High knows that too!
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Re: Tesla Steps in It in California

#18 Post by VP959 » Sun Aug 28, 2022 6:19 pm

Opsboi wrote:
Sun Aug 28, 2022 6:11 pm
Elon Musk might be a genius, but he's very possibly deranged

I think he, his companies, his products and his ambitions need more serious independent scrutiny than they seem to be getting

He seems to write his own rules, including the ones about the taxes he doesn't pay anybody
Very definitely. He's also seriously weird. I do wonder what his son, X AE A-XII Musk, will think about his name as he gets older. or his daughter. Exa Dark Sideræl Musk, for that matter.

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Re: Tesla Steps in It in California

#19 Post by PHXPhlyer » Thu Oct 27, 2022 12:27 am

Tesla faces U.S. criminal probe over self-driving car claims, sources say
Tesla says that with its technology, “the car is driving itself.” Prosecutors are asking whether such claims misled consumers, investors and regulators, sources told Reuters.

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/ ... -rcna54224

Tesla is under criminal investigation in the United States over claims that the company’s electric vehicles can drive themselves, three people familiar with the matter said.

The U.S. Department of Justice launched the previously undisclosed probe last year following more than a dozen crashes, some of them fatal, involving Tesla’s driver assistance system Autopilot, which was activated during the accidents, the people said.

As early as 2016, Tesla’s marketing materials have touted Autopilot’s capabilities. On a conference call that year, Elon Musk, the Silicon Valley automaker’s chief executive, described it as “probably better” than a human driver.

Tesla Motors Inc. Tests Self-Driving Technology

Last week, Musk said on another call Tesla would soon release an upgraded version of “Full Self-Driving” software allowing customers to travel “to your work, your friend’s house, to the grocery store without you touching the wheel.”

A video currently on the company’s website says: “The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself.”

However, the company also has explicitly warned drivers that they must keep their hands on the wheel and maintain control of their vehicles while using Autopilot.

The Tesla technology is designed to assist with steering, braking, speed and lane changes but its features “do not make the vehicle autonomous,” the company says on its website.

Such warnings could complicate any case the Justice Department might wish to bring, the sources said.

Tesla, which disbanded its media relations department in 2020, did not respond to written questions from Reuters on Wednesday. Musk also did not respond to written questions seeking comment. A Justice Department spokesperson declined to comment.

Musk said in an interview with Automotive News in 2020 that Autopilot problems stem from customers using the system in ways contrary to Tesla’s instructions.

Federal and California safety regulators are already scrutinizing whether claims about Autopilot’s capabilities and the system’s design imbue customers with a false sense of security, inducing them to treat Teslas as truly driverless cars and become complacent behind the wheel with potentially deadly consequences.

The Justice Department investigation potentially represents a more serious level of scrutiny because of the possibility of criminal charges against the company or individual executives, the people familiar with the inquiry said.

As part of the latest probe, Justice Department prosecutors in Washington and San Francisco are examining whether Tesla misled consumers, investors and regulators by making unsupported claims about its driver assistance technology’s capabilities, the sources said.

Officials conducting their inquiry could ultimately pursue criminal charges, seek civil sanctions or close the probe without taking any action, they said.

The Justice Department’s Autopilot probe is far from recommending any action partly because it is competing with two other DOJ investigations involving Tesla, one of the sources said. Investigators still have much work to do and no decision on charges is imminent, this source said.

The Justice Department may also face challenges in building its case, said the sources, because of Tesla’s warnings about overreliance on Autopilot.

For instance, after telling the investor call last week that Teslas would soon travel without customers touching controls, Musk added that the vehicles still needed someone in the driver’s seat. “Like we’re not saying that that’s quite ready to have no one behind the wheel,” he said.

The Tesla website also cautions that, before enabling Autopilot, the driver first needs to agree to “keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times” and to always “maintain control and responsibility for your vehicle.”

Barbara McQuade, a former U.S. attorney in Detroit who prosecuted automotive companies and employees in fraud cases and is not involved in the current probe, said investigators likely would need to uncover evidence such as emails or other internal communications showing that Tesla and Musk made misleading statements about Autopilot’s capabilities on purpose.

SEVERAL PROBES
The criminal Autopilot investigation adds to the other probes and legal issues involving Musk, who became locked in a court battle earlier this year after abandoning a $44 billion takeover of social media giant Twitter Inc, only to reverse course and proclaim excitement for the looming acquisition.

In August 2021, the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration opened an investigation into a series of crashes, one of them fatal, involving Teslas equipped with Autopilot slamming into parked emergency vehicles.

NHTSA officials in June intensified their probe, which covers 830,000 Teslas with Autopilot, identifying 16 crashes involving the company’s electric cars and stationary first-responder and road maintenance vehicles. The move is a step that regulators must take before requesting a recall. The agency had no immediate comment.

In July this year, the California Department of Motor Vehicles accused Tesla of falsely advertising its Autopilot and Full Self-Driving capability as providing autonomous vehicle control. Tesla filed paperwork with the agency seeking a hearing on the allegations and indicated it intends to defend against them. The DMV said in a statement it is currently in the discovery stage of the proceeding and declined further comment.

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Re: Tesla Steps in It in California

#20 Post by Undried Plum » Thu Oct 27, 2022 12:35 am

Didn't Tesla bugger off to Texas because of all this crap?


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