Octopus Agile electricity tariff UK

[CharlieOneSix]

I had a smart meter installed last week and am now tempted by the Octopus Agile electricity tariff where half hourly prices for the following day are issued around 1600 each day. Historically for the last year or so the tariff would have saved me money. I don't do enough miles to make the Octopus Go tariff aimed at electric cars viable but the Agile tariff would be viable where I can pre-program when I charge the car to take advantage of low prices - occasionally at times where they pay me to use electricity.

Anyone in the UK on Octopus Agile? Your experiences appreciated.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Many people in the US have been stung when the rate goes up to ridiculous levels during peak demand and partial outages, e.g. storms.
It would appear that Octopus's top rate is not-outrageous 100p/kWh, but they can switch to this at any time for any length of time with no prior warning.
Which means if they do it after you've gone to bed, and you have a lot of stuff programmed for an expected low rate during the night, you may wake up to a nasty surprise.

https://octopus.energy/policies/smart-t ... ileoctopus

[CharlieOneSix]

My understanding is that once they issue prices for the following day they honour them. I’ve looked at daily Agile prices for about the last 12 months and the highest rate was roughly 40p during the 16-1900 period. The average was way below what I’m paying at the moment. My only real concern is that it’s still a beta tariff and I wonder how many times it fails - there is a warning on their website to that effect.

You can see tomorrow’s prices here : https://energy-stats.uk/octopus-agile-yorkshire/ albeit for Yorkshire as it’s difficult to change to Northern Scotland using my iPhone. Scroll almost to the end. Overnight tonight the rate varies from -2.6p to 1.1p per kWh from 0001 to 0330……a big change from the 28.8p per kWh I pay at the moment!

Just noted a very short time increase to 66.1p on 23/11/23.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Agile prices can spike up to 100 p/kWh any time

https://octopus.energy/smart/agile/
My italics.

The fact that the Terms and Conditions do not make this clear is a bit of a red flag to me.

So, whilst they may be honouring yesterday's quotes at the moment, they are under no obligation to do so.

And if the wholesale spike happens to be high and prolonged, as happened in Texas during a storm a couple of years ago, it's you or them.

[CharlieOneSix]

Sorry, I edited after you posted! You make a good point. I will challenge them tomorrow about that!

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Not a problem.
I agree it's a good deal when it's cheap.
If you are able to switch almost everything off if the price spikes (esp. heating), then your only concern is being notified.
The problem in Texas is that almost everyone (in cities) is reliant on electric heating/cooling and electric cooking, especially since the surges happen in either winter storms or heatwaves.

I do wonder why they specifically mention you will be notified when prices drop, but they don't mention it should they spike.
Logically, it would help the grid if people were immediately notified and could therefore load-shed.

[CharlieOneSix]

Being rural my heating is oil but we’re electric cooking. The dishwasher and washing machine can be set to a delay start, as can charging the car.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Well, most people here use the BBQ for cooking in a power outage. I have a woodstove which has a flat top for cooking (and a BBQ).
I've also got a gas genny. Needless to say these sell out immediately if there's something serious in the offing.
I will have a battery back-up system by summer.
I am sure you are organised enough to have the car charged before a weather event, so it would seem the notification is your only issue. Maybe ask them?

[CharlieOneSix]

Yes, I’ll ask them in the morning. We cook on a camping stove during power cuts and I can keep the freezers cold during longer cuts by plugging them into the car for an hour or two a day. Worked well a while back when we had a 4 day cut.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Pretty much everyone here is organised for weeks, and anyone who isn't gets taken in by those who are.
That's Canada, you just walk into the nearest house and you are sorted.
In the last huge storm, where nothing moved for two days, and some people had outages lasting 3 weeks, the Red Cross only had 11 bed nights of emergency shelter provided.

[CharlieOneSix]

Without very much effort the Octopus Agile tariff seems to work well for us - just the two of us, home most days. Here's a breakdown of 7 days - 3 days on the previous standard variable tariff and four days on the Agile tariff. The photo is a page from a third party app called Octopus Watch. Very useful, for example the dishwasher runs for about 90 minutes. The app - see second photo - will tell me when I should start the machine to get the cheapest average cost for that period. I charged my electric car from 2300 Thursday until it completed at 0537 Friday. For us the savings over a year are substantial - the £11.76 savings are for just the 4 days on the new tariff.

IMG_2183.jpg (34.99 KiB) Viewed 500 times

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Interesting.
My standing charge is about a pound a month more than yours.
I think this is reasonable, since we have a lower population density, and more power line repairs required by the climate and vegetation.
My charge per kWh is 10.04p, which seems very cheap indeed.
I will be getting some off-grid solar panels up and running this year. We'll see how that works out.

I burn about 3 cord of firewood per year for winter heating.
That works out at about 6 600 kWh, at about 4p per kWh, including the cost of my firewood processing gear (chainsaw, splitter)
So, you can see why I heat with wood.

[PHXPhlyer]

Interesting.
My standing charge is about a pound a month more than yours.
I think this is reasonable, since we have a lower population density, and more power line repairs required by the climate and vegetation.
My charge per kWh is 10.04p, which seems very cheap indeed.
I will be getting some off-grid solar panels up and running this year. We'll see how that works out.

I burn about 3 cord of firewood per year for winter heating.
That works out at about 6 600 kWh, at about 4p per kWh, including the cost of my firewood processing gear (chainsaw, splitter)
So, you can see why I heat with wood.

Not to mention the savings on a gym membership, assuming there was one near you.

PP

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Exactly.
Keeping a three year stock of wood means I will only go chop when the weather's fine and I feel like I need the exercise.
I was intrigued to discover that the latest fad in commercial gym equipment is apparently stuff that simulates chopping and moving wood!
And my actual wood processing tools cost less than the simulated machines!
The safety gear is expensive, but I took advantage of a free Government course to get qualified as a chainsaw operator, and one got to keep the gear.
My nearest gym is about 3 miles away. They are not too far apart in rural Canada, as they specialise in hockey fitness. The guy who runs it is two doors down from me (about a half mile).

[CharlieOneSix]

Just received tomorrow's prices for 24 hours for our UK Octopus Agile tariff. Here's a snapshot from my phone for 0600-1600. Many hours of 0p/kWh and two half hour periods where they pay us to use electricity. Looks like there will be a couple of washing loads done, plus the dishwasher run and a five hour charge of my car, all at almost zero cost. In the last 28 days we have saved £107.20 compared with the standard tariff that we were on, equating to a 36% saving and an average rate of 17.04p/kWh.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Glad it's working out for you.

I was pleased to see the electricity utility tree-cutters down my road this week. They've lopped a few branches off that might have caused an outage.
Of course, my next door neighbour being a lineman, who doesn't like his wife being in the dark, does mean we get service somewhat more often and more rapidly than the average.

Do you have any problems in that regard? I guess it goes snowy/blowy sometimes.

[CharlieOneSix]

The electricity board tree cutter guys seem to come round about every four years and have a look at where our line runs next to the adjacent small wood. I phoned them a couple of years ago as about 6 sycamores had grown up in our garden and were within falling distance and close to the line as well as keeping light out. They came and cut them down to the ground, shredded all the smaller branches which we asked them to leave so we could use it as weed suppressant. They cut up the trunks and larger branches into manageable lengths and put them into piles - all at no cost to me! After they left these were chainsawed and split for firewood.

We lost a Rowan tree and a large branch of a sycamore in recent gales - more firewood!

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Drifting off topic slightly, but what chainsaw do you have?
I have the Oregon electric 16", with the rapid sharpener. I've been very happy with it.
On the odd occasion I have to work away from the house or barn, like an apple tree that needed major surgery, I take my little wheeled genny with me and power it off that.
I use an electric 4 ton hydraulic splitter.

[Rwy in Sight]

To continue with the chainsaw "branch" of the conversation: F3 do you have any quick pointers about chainsaw safety beyond the obvious paying attention when it starts and wear heavy gloves and protective spectacles? I might do some wood chopping and any tips would be useful.

Regarding electricity tariff is it worth then to have a smart meter to take advantage of the hourly fluctuating prices?

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Chainsaw use.
This is a great video tutorial of the actual cutting techniques, and some safety stuff. It is about the closest to the content of the cut technique part of the professional chainsaw operator course I did.


I shall keep looking for more on basic safety.
Until I find that, your most important points are:

Always align yourself so that, if the saw slips, or the piece of wood suddenly stops resisting (e.g. rotten), then the saw will swing in an arc that doesn't include any part of your body.
Generally you need to be slightly offset, but not so much that you are leaning over a lot and risking your feet slipping.

Don't use the chainsaw above your shoulder height.

Hearing protectors when using gas chainsaws are highly advised. The exception is if you are working in a team and have to listen for safety calls.

If you are working on trees or anywhere there is a risk of falling stuff, wear a helmet.
This applies if a log pile is at or above your head height.
The professional ones come with the facescreen and hearing protectors fitted.
The really good ones also come with a neck screen to protect the back of your neck from sunburn. This is probably quite important where you are.

How heavy the gloves are depends on what you are doing and in what conditions.
You must be able to feel the chainsaw enough to operate it with some precision, so not too heavy.
If it's very cold, like below -10C, take warm-up breaks rather than use too thick gloves.
You can cut for longer if you keep the chainsaw warm, such as by placing it in your home/vehicle before you start cutting and during breaks.
You will need moderate thickness gloves to handle the wood without the gloves wearing out too fast.
My preference is to wear thin mechanic's gloves to operate the saw for better feel, then put thicker ones on to move the logs around.
Depends if you are in a hurry or not.
If it's really hot, and gloves cause sweating/slipping, then you may be better off without them. Your call.

If I am just cutting already felled logs, then I just wear protective glasses instead of the helmet. Protective googles may be needed if it's windy/lots of sawdust.
If the wood you are cutting can shatter or spit fragments at you, I recommend the facescreen. Good quality dry hardwood doesn't, I've found, so I don't wear one when blocking my own firewood.

I always wear protective bib trousers. These jam up the chain almost instantly if you accidentally hit your leg.
I wear protective, armoured boots if in a forest.
However, both these items are very expensive. I got them free with the course.
You can get cheaper protective chaps for your legs. I got a pair of these and wore them before I did the course.
protective jeans are also available.
Make sure you have shoes/boots with excellent grip. The forces involved when using the saw can cause a slip if they haven't, even if they feel safe before the saw is in use.
I always set both feet very carefully before each cut and wiggle a bit. If on snow, as I was on my training course, one can suddenly drop two or three feet, and it's best to do this before engaging the saw.

The most likely cause of accidents is fatigue. This leads to all the other direct causes. The vibration of the saw is fatiguing, nevermind the noise, temperature (you are always too hot or too cold), etc.

For the actual cutting of trees, you must always plan an escape route for yourself, and anyone else in the area. This was strongly emphasised throughout my course, and not doing so is the second biggest cause of accidents.

I have not had a scare, nevermind an accident. But I generally work alone beyond help, so I need to be extra careful.

I do have a wedge and a hand axe as well for actual tree felling.

This video is not instructional directly, but shows a professional course.
You should be able to pick out most of the points I've mentioned above. Note how the guys go onto one or both knees to get a firm platform.

You should also get the idea from the discussion that there is a lot to plan if the tree isn't dead straight, and there are others around.
I would recommend a course if you are going to be doing more than felling the odd, isolated tree for yourself or neighbours.

For just cutting firewood logs, the most important point is that the log slot (kerf) will open, rather than close, as you cut. For this to happen, the short bit needs not be resting on anything.
The second point is that the log is secure enough that it won't move as the saw touches it.