Airline Failures

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Ibbie
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Airline Failures

#1 Post by Ibbie » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:25 am

Interesting article here on the subject.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/lists ... -all-time/

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Re: Airline Failures

#2 Post by limeygal » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:55 am

I had no idea there were so many airlines that went under. I think Laker was the only other one I'd heard of. A real shame about Monarch

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Re: Airline Failures

#3 Post by Pontius Navigator » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:15 am

Silverjet was a special case, killed rather than failed. A friend flew Silver for a cruise. The only way he could describe it was superb. The problem, as a distant memory, was that it failed by association with other airlines of the time, where its business plan was deemed poor. They said they were sound and blamed the others for a domino effect.

But they would say that, wouldn't they.

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Re: Airline Failures

#4 Post by Pontius Navigator » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:19 am

Pontius Navigator wrote:Silverjet was a special case, killed rather than failed. A friend flew Silver for a cruise. The only way he could describe it was superb. The problem, as a distant memory, was that it failed by association with other airlines of the time, where its business plan was deemed poor. They said they were sound and blamed the others for a domino effect.

But they would say that, wouldn't they.


Then there were other familiar names that have possibly been subsumed by others:

BUA
Britannia
Dan Dare (forgot their proper name)
BEA
BOAC
Heavylift (OK freight)
Pan Am - suffered the same fate as Townsend Thoresen though Lockerbie wasn't their fault.

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Re: Airline Failures

#5 Post by Ex-Ascot » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:35 am

Our flight safety officer in about 1980 attended a HS748 safety meeting. Dan Dare were represented. There was a discussion about when the hydraulic system was recycling you would get amber warning lights. This was of course disconcerting. Attendees were asked if their companies had managed to find a solution. Dan Dare boldly stood up and announced that they had. All very impressed. Technical details were requested. Apparently it was a very easy fix. You just remove the bulbs. True story.
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Re: Airline Failures

#6 Post by Pontius Navigator » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:35 pm

Ex-Ascot, you will perhaps recall a boast back in late 60s early 70s that Ascot was the biggest airline in the world with Comet, Brit, VC10, Belslow, Argosy, Herc, Andover, Basset, Wessex, F4 and no doubt others.

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Re: Airline Failures

#7 Post by Ex-Ascot » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:13 pm

PN, I do and it was probably correct. When 10 Sqn introduced the VC10 they were one of the biggest long haul airlines in the UK with 14 frames. 5th I think. My bosses in their ivory towers could never cope with the fact I ran ops there as one would an airline not military. It was the most logical way forward and it worked.
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Re: Airline Failures

#8 Post by reddo » Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:44 pm

We flew Silverjet from Luton to New York. Great flight, fantastic service. Loved their terminal at Luton. We saw a lot of folks coming from the inbound easyJet flights walking across the road to hope on the Silverjet flight to New York.

Killed by BA....

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Re: Airline Failures

#9 Post by Woody » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:31 pm

Because BA are the only airline who fly to New York from UK :ymtongue:
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Re: Airline Failures

#10 Post by Alisoncc » Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:13 am

Back in my day, few airies could make all the way across the water, necessitating a refuel in Keflavik, with the Icelandic govt acquiring reciprocal landing rights in the US and Europe. Which they used to some advantage via Icelandair and Loftleidir. Both having super swishy hotels in Reykjavik for heavily-discounted overnight stays. Travel back then wasn't all about "getting there and back" before anyone noticed you'd been away.

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Re: Airline Failures

#11 Post by ExSp33db1rd » Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:32 am

Yes,

Shannon and Gander became firm friends.

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Re: Airline Failures

#12 Post by Ex-Ascot » Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:55 am

My boss often criticised me for tankering fuel until he had to pop into Shannon on the way back from Dulles to top up! I always felt uneasy in the airlines with the flight plan fuel concept.
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Re: Airline Failures

#13 Post by om15 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:10 pm

My bosses in their ivory towers could never cope with the fact I ran ops there as one would an airline not military


A few years ago I had a temporary contract ( lasted 3 years) as an Airworthiness Surveyor for the MAA, this involved oversight of military units supported by the contracted civilian organisations.
On one Sqn the Jengo hosting the visit complained that there were only 115 technicians to support the line servicing, at that time I was also a nominated post holder for a Part 145 that maintained 13 jets with less than 20 people.
The Services have too many ranks, is too top heavy and everyone over the age of about 30 expects to be a manager supervising others.
Based on my experiences during this contract I found the following, the RAF were completely overmanned and moaned about everything, the RN still maintained 18th century practices and still polished brass things, the Army were spot on, totally professional, committed and efficient.
Alcohol doesn't solve any problems, but then again neither does milk.

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Re: Airline Failures

#14 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:34 pm

Not convinced that the RAF were overmanned and top heavy. On a fast jet deployment squadron, we were heavily dependent on the ginger beers' ability to fix stuff in the field, and I saw on numerous occasions that experience counted for a lot. We also trained up 'split-brains', who were technicians part-trained in a second specialization, who were also backseat qualified*, so they could be flown out at short notice to fix stuff, at least to RTB standard. And, of course mil jets get abused a lot more than civvy aircraft, which means there's a lot more to check for potential damage. Loose article checks would be another example - difficult, time-consuming, and vital. Canopy polishing - also vital, is that a dead fly or another FJ 4 seconds from impact at 1,000 mph closure?

* not that they were very good at it ;)

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Re: Airline Failures

#15 Post by om15 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:29 pm

Yes, one of the points made at the time was that although the aircraft might be serviceable the aircraft might be withdrawn from service due to weapon or communication system failure, hence a low serviceability rate.
My son spent the best part of ten years on Tornado squadrons, he was multi trade trained, and indeed worked very hard when in hot sandy places, perhaps my experiences were not representative across the board, however that was how I saw it at the time.
I was not a hundred per cent convinced that the huge civilianisation of military maintenance was particularly good, seemed very bureaucratic, lots of chiefs and not so many Indians.
Alcohol doesn't solve any problems, but then again neither does milk.

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Re: Airline Failures

#16 Post by Capetonian » Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:03 am

Air France's pathetic attempt to compete with itself, Joon, is to be discontinued. Only a Frog could have thought up such a daft name and strategy.

Small Planet Airlines also ceasing trading.

Flybe probably on the way out too.
One thing you can say for the French, when civilization falls they have less far to fall than everyone else.

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Re: Airline Failures

#17 Post by Woody » Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:14 am

Open Skies has become Level, I believe all part of IAG happy family :((
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Re: Airline Failures

#18 Post by Capetonian » Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:24 am

Woody I think you should change that logo. Every time I see it out of the corner of my eye, my mind sees an 'n' instead of an 'l' in the third word!

I am not being rude about the club you support, I am a huge admirer of LFC.
One thing you can say for the French, when civilization falls they have less far to fall than everyone else.

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Re: Airline Failures

#19 Post by Ibbie » Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:28 am

Now the deal to absorb WOW into Icelandair has collapsed.

WOW returning some aircraft to lessors as a result.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/br ... 15ce2089af

A lot of should be flying metal is not.

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Re: Airline Failures

#20 Post by Woody » Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:28 am

Capetonian wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:24 am
Woody I think you should change that logo. Every time I see it out of the corner of my eye, my mind sees an 'n' instead of an 'l' in the third word!

I am not being rude about the club you support, I am a huge admirer of LFC.
I’ve been called worse things =)) =))
Enjoying the collapse of the Tory Party.

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