Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

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Undried Plum
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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#401 Post by Undried Plum » Fri Jul 24, 2020 5:53 pm

PHXPhlyer wrote:
Fri Jul 24, 2020 5:14 pm
quarantine costs of up to €100 for 14 days
Says it all, dunnit?

I love the bit: "up to" the costs of hotec per day.

To pay, to serve.

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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#402 Post by llondel » Fri Jul 24, 2020 5:58 pm

So if you think you've got it, quickly hop on an Emirates flight if you're in a country where you'd otherwise have to pay for healthcare. Got to be cheaper.

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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#403 Post by Woody » Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:36 am

Latest on BA X(
Dear Unite Member,
No matter how long you have been at British Airways, the next 12 days will undoubtedly be the most difficult of your career.
From the 7th August onwards, British Airways plan to dismiss every single one of us.
Up to 37,000 friends and colleagues will be dismissed, many permanently, the remainder forced out of their job and only allowed to return to work if they sign away their legal rights and accept a new role but with reduced terms, conditions, agreements, employment policies, pensions and a huge cut in pay.
Matters could not be any more serious.
The lies that BA have used to justify this have been exposed in public, the press and in Parliament but none of this has altered their intention or even troubled their conscience one iota.
The plan hatched back in April is exactly the same as it is now. Whether they ‘consulted’ for 1 day or 100 days, it is unlikely that would have ever changed. Let’s face it, if they really wanted “to save as many jobs as possible” then they could have done so, but they have chosen not to. The notion of issuing thousands of redundancies but then somehow trying to blame Unite for doing so, is nonsense.
This was the plan from the beginning, it’s always been the plan and as always where BA are concerned it hasn’t changed. There are now just four working days left until they begin to enact it, please read the urgent letter below from Unite General secretary Len McCluskey to Alex Cruz. The message is clear:

“British Airways have now published a timetable to Fire and Rehire thousands of your workforce on 7th August, we will work every hour between now and then, to convince you not to do so.
You can take this letter as our commitment to do that.
However, you can also take this as an intention to defend our members by moving towards industrial action with immediate effect.”
<<<Click to View>>>
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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#404 Post by ribrash » Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:06 am

Woody wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:36 am
Latest on BA X(
Dear Unite Member,
No matter how long you have been at British Airways, the next 12 days will undoubtedly be the most difficult of your career.
From the 7th August onwards, British Airways plan to dismiss every single one of us.
Up to 37,000 friends and colleagues will be dismissed, many permanently, the remainder forced out of their job and only allowed to return to work if they sign away their legal rights and accept a new role but with reduced terms, conditions, agreements, employment policies, pensions and a huge cut in pay.
Matters could not be any more serious.
The lies that BA have used to justify this have been exposed in public, the press and in Parliament but none of this has altered their intention or even troubled their conscience one iota.
The plan hatched back in April is exactly the same as it is now. Whether they ‘consulted’ for 1 day or 100 days, it is unlikely that would have ever changed. Let’s face it, if they really wanted “to save as many jobs as possible” then they could have done so, but they have chosen not to. The notion of issuing thousands of redundancies but then somehow trying to blame Unite for doing so, is nonsense.
This was the plan from the beginning, it’s always been the plan and as always where BA are concerned it hasn’t changed. There are now just four working days left until they begin to enact it, please read the urgent letter below from Unite General secretary Len McCluskey to Alex Cruz. The message is clear:

“British Airways have now published a timetable to Fire and Rehire thousands of your workforce on 7th August, we will work every hour between now and then, to convince you not to do so.
You can take this letter as our commitment to do that.
However, you can also take this as an intention to defend our members by moving towards industrial action with immediate effect.”
<<<Click to View>>>
I thought I read yesterday that BA had agreed to send 270 pilots up the road and that talks were ongoing with the rest of the staff.Its sh*t what ever happens.
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F

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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#405 Post by Woody » Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:14 pm

AFAIK negotiations are ongoing, but BA are still carrying out their original plans X(

BALPA are balloting the pilots at the moment.
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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#406 Post by Woody » Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:10 pm

That’s the UK’s busiest Costa coffee out the window :))

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/ne ... 43851.html
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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#407 Post by Undried Plum » Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:44 pm

Woody wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:14 pm
BALPA are balloting the pilots at the moment.
Going on strike to save jobs is like fukking for virginity.

It just doesn't work.

All it proves is that that you don't need to be employed - and are therefore worthless.

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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#408 Post by Woody » Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:44 pm

Just been furloughed for August, who needs to go on strike :-bd
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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#409 Post by Bergerie 1 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:46 am

The economic reality of BA's financial difficulties from today's Times. BALPA seem to have struck a pragmatic agreement for the pilots. But what are Unite doing to help?

Willie Walsh can’t be blamed for BA turbulence
Alistair Osborne
Saturday August 01 2020, 12.01am BST, The Times

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/busi ... -zc20hd9dm

What a way to bow out. Willie Walsh retires on September 24 after 15 years at the controls of first British Airways and then its parent IAG. And look at his parting gift to shareholders: a half-year loss of €4.2 billion pre-tax and confirmation that he’s asking around for €2.75 billion of refuelling.

How’s that for perspective on claims from the Unite union that the BA owner is merely suffering a bout of “temporary” turbulence and that Mr Walsh is relishing the chance to settle old scores with the cabin crew? As he puts it: “The idea that there is some unfinished business is complete nonsense.”

Indeed, if Mr Walsh’s last ever IAG figures aren’t a wake-up call for the Unite boss Len McCluskey, it’s hard to guess what is. Ditto for a bunch of delusional MPs, led by Huw “Make it Up” Merriman, the Tory who’s somehow chairman of the transport committee. No one is happy that a pandemic has forced BA to cut up to 12,000 of its 42,000 staff or that, as a last resort, it would “fire and rehire” the rest on new terms if they won’t agree “reasonable” changes to legacy contracts. Mr Walsh understands “this is distressing for everybody”.

But he’s right that Unite is “blind and deaf to the reality” of this crisis, complete with an absurd threat to strike when most planes are already on the tarmac. So, too, are the 100-plus MPs who’ve joined the union in a kamikaze campaign to strip BA of Heathrow slots. They need to look at the latest figures.

Yes, they include a €1.27 billion hit from “overhedging” fuel that IAG wasn’t using and writedowns on the older planes being retired early. But second-quarter operating losses were a record €1.37 billion. BA, the biggest airline in a group also spanning Iberia and Aer Lingus, was the hardest hit. In the three months to June 30, it lost £711 million. Compare the quarter after 9/11: a loss of £187 million. Or the worst quarter of the financial crisis: £309 million losses.

Covid-19, says Mr Walsh, is an “unprecedented crisis”. To boot, he reckons it will take “until at least 2023 for passenger demand to recover to 2019 levels”. First-half passenger revenue fell 61 per cent. And BA is in the eye of the storm. It’s dependent on long-haul traffic, not least its transatlantic business shuttle where Mr Walsh is braced for a “structural” drop in demand. The half-year results show the hit to BA: from €873 million operating profits to €1.09 billion losses.

The upshot? A group that for all its €8.1 billion liquidity is lugging around €10.5 billion net debt: a vast sum for a business valued at €3.3 billion on shares down 9 per cent to 164¾p. Hence the cash-call. It’s led to IAG’s biggest investor, Qatar Airways with 25.1 per cent, claiming two board seats, even if Mr Walsh insisted it was “not the price” of its “irrevocable” support. Hence, too, the need for restructuring to give IAG a “viable” future and “protect as many jobs as feasible”.
Of course, Mr Merriman thinks Mr Walsh’s efforts at BA a “national disgrace”. But luckily the MP doesn’t run the airline. As Mr Walsh noted, that job requires “doing what’s necessary” even when you “don’t want” to do it. He didn’t want to bow out like this.

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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#410 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:23 am

Perhaps Mr Walsh will be prepared to take a cut in his final payment including his pension in the light of the dire position he leaves the company in?

Did I just see a flying pig or a greedy wee Irishman?
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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#411 Post by Woody » Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:09 am

TheGreenGoblin wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:23 am
Perhaps Mr Walsh will be prepared to take a cut in his final payment including his pension in the light of the dire position he leaves the company in?
He’s so trustworthy, there was a rumour on various Pilot forums that BA had pulled out of the deal with BALPA, which didn’t seem to surprise anyone :((

Meanwhile BA have retired their one remaining A-318, so that’s the end of the LCY-JFK route BA 1/2
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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#412 Post by ian16th » Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:44 pm

Woody wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:09 am
Meanwhile BA have retired their one remaining A-318, so that’s the end of the LCY-JFK route BA 1/2
One thing that has been learnt by companies, is simply how much business travel isn't needed! The Internet has taken that business.

The Cattle Class is going to be the cabin that recovers quickest, with the holiday trade.
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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#413 Post by Woody » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:44 pm

So after 4 months BA still haven’t been able to make a decision X(
From me ...
British Airways is trying to dismiss their entire workforce either permanently or “fire and rehire” the remainder. Such a brutal act is unprecedented in British industry. Life is obviously uncertain, difficult and stressful for every single one of us involved, how can it not be in these circumstances…

Here are the answers to some of the questions we all have and an honest appraisal of what lies ahead.

Q. What on earth are BA doing?

Ans. Quite simply, across BA they plan to allocate every staff member a number of points based on the criteria that they alone have set. They will then draw a line on that list in each department (according to the redundancy notices issued). Those above it are retained, those below will be dismissed (made redundant).

It is that brutal. A twisted X factor parody which you may feel indicates that they simply do not care about the impact that decision will have on people. The stark reality is that they do care to some degree, but care far more about the financial bottom line.

That criteria cannot and will not be changed by strength of argument; it can only now be challenged in court.

Q. Is the union agreeing to BA making people redundant?

Ans. 100% NO.

We do not want, agree or accept the legitimacy of making even one person compulsory redundant. BA have decided this course of action, but our objection alone does not mean they will not do so and the legitimacy of that action, again now moves to the courts via claims for unfair dismissal.

Q. But I have a job, why do I need to apply for another one, when I don’t even know what it will look like?

Ans. 100% Correct.

This has been the subject of the raging argument, in the press and parliament and that is why Unite has thrown every resource the union has to support BA staff through the BA betrayal campaign; because BA plans to “fire and rehire” its entire workforce. We all know the rights and wrongs of that. No matter how appalling that decision is, BA plan to do so regardless of the impact upon their own staff, public opinion, parliamentary concern and even the damage to their own brand, on Friday.

Q. What happens on next ?

If you are selected by BA for redundancy, regrettably they will inform you on that day. Again, we hope to finalise measures next week that will reduce that number considerably, but in line with the pilots, it may be that be that every single job is not saved immediately.

If you are retained, which most people should be, BA intend to issue notice of contractual change, which for us is three months. Within that period, discussions will continue to try and agree what those changes look like.

Q. Is all hope lost?

Ans. No. Far from it.

Although we have not been able to alter the selection process for redundancy, we have been able to convince BA to consider a range of options that will save a significant number of jobs, if enacted, this means that the line drawn on the list moves by BA and considerably less people will be made redundant. This will become much clearer next week as negotiations continue and numbers become finalised.

Q. Last but not least, Should I stay or go?

Ans. Here’s the situation, as they say, “warts and all”.

If you are 100% certain that you wish to leave , then that is probably the right decision for you. If you are not certain, then do not do so but there is of course greater uncertainty in staying, as we do not as yet know what that will mean.

Despite all the pressure BA have been placed under, they have dogmatically pursued their own agenda (as they always do, think 2010)

For many people the uncertainty and demeaning way they have been treated by an employer they have dedicated most of their working lives to, is too much for them to bear, and they no longer wish to be associated with an airline they were once so proud to work for.

However, as in 2010 and even at our darkest hour, we were able to secure protections and we will work hard to do so again. We will be able reduce the number of redundancies; we will work on improved protections for our members going forward and we will be able to shape what the future looks like and yes, that may involve industrial action. But none of that will be certain before Monday and it may take some weeks before that come clearer. Will things be exactly the same as today? Probably not, but our aim remains to shape something that you will find acceptable.

There’s a fight still to come, for our dignity, for our respect, for anyone that is made redundant against their will and as we always have said, for our future and yes although it may not seem like it, you still have one!

Whether that’s through negotiation, industrial action, or tens of thousands legal claims and years of litigation is not yet clear. What IS clear is that fight is far from over, but if you want to be a part of that future, stay with your union and help shape it together, it won’t be easy but if we keep clam, keep together and keep going, we will get there

Please do not forget that you will be balloted on any proposed changes and the starting point, as confirmed by CEO Alex Cruz remains current terms and conditions. If those are altered without agreement being reached and we remain cautiously optimistic that an agreement can be reached, Industrial and legal action will follow .
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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#414 Post by ribrash » Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:17 pm

Woody wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:44 pm
So after 4 months BA still haven’t been able to make a decision X(
From me ...
British Airways is trying to dismiss their entire workforce either permanently or “fire and rehire” the remainder. Such a brutal act is unprecedented in British industry. Life is obviously uncertain, difficult and stressful for every single one of us involved, how can it not be in these circumstances…

Here are the answers to some of the questions we all have and an honest appraisal of what lies ahead.

Q. What on earth are BA doing?

Ans. Quite simply, across BA they plan to allocate every staff member a number of points based on the criteria that they alone have set. They will then draw a line on that list in each department (according to the redundancy notices issued). Those above it are retained, those below will be dismissed (made redundant).

It is that brutal. A twisted X factor parody which you may feel indicates that they simply do not care about the impact that decision will have on people. The stark reality is that they do care to some degree, but care far more about the financial bottom line.

That criteria cannot and will not be changed by strength of argument; it can only now be challenged in court.

Q. Is the union agreeing to BA making people redundant?

Ans. 100% NO.

We do not want, agree or accept the legitimacy of making even one person compulsory redundant. BA have decided this course of action, but our objection alone does not mean they will not do so and the legitimacy of that action, again now moves to the courts via claims for unfair dismissal.

Q. But I have a job, why do I need to apply for another one, when I don’t even know what it will look like?

Ans. 100% Correct.

This has been the subject of the raging argument, in the press and parliament and that is why Unite has thrown every resource the union has to support BA staff through the BA betrayal campaign; because BA plans to “fire and rehire” its entire workforce. We all know the rights and wrongs of that. No matter how appalling that decision is, BA plan to do so regardless of the impact upon their own staff, public opinion, parliamentary concern and even the damage to their own brand, on Friday.

Q. What happens on next ?

If you are selected by BA for redundancy, regrettably they will inform you on that day. Again, we hope to finalise measures next week that will reduce that number considerably, but in line with the pilots, it may be that be that every single job is not saved immediately.

If you are retained, which most people should be, BA intend to issue notice of contractual change, which for us is three months. Within that period, discussions will continue to try and agree what those changes look like.

Q. Is all hope lost?

Ans. No. Far from it.

Although we have not been able to alter the selection process for redundancy, we have been able to convince BA to consider a range of options that will save a significant number of jobs, if enacted, this means that the line drawn on the list moves by BA and considerably less people will be made redundant. This will become much clearer next week as negotiations continue and numbers become finalised.

Q. Last but not least, Should I stay or go?

Ans. Here’s the situation, as they say, “warts and all”.

If you are 100% certain that you wish to leave , then that is probably the right decision for you. If you are not certain, then do not do so but there is of course greater uncertainty in staying, as we do not as yet know what that will mean.

Despite all the pressure BA have been placed under, they have dogmatically pursued their own agenda (as they always do, think 2010)

For many people the uncertainty and demeaning way they have been treated by an employer they have dedicated most of their working lives to, is too much for them to bear, and they no longer wish to be associated with an airline they were once so proud to work for.

However, as in 2010 and even at our darkest hour, we were able to secure protections and we will work hard to do so again. We will be able reduce the number of redundancies; we will work on improved protections for our members going forward and we will be able to shape what the future looks like and yes, that may involve industrial action. But none of that will be certain before Monday and it may take some weeks before that come clearer. Will things be exactly the same as today? Probably not, but our aim remains to shape something that you will find acceptable.

There’s a fight still to come, for our dignity, for our respect, for anyone that is made redundant against their will and as we always have said, for our future and yes although it may not seem like it, you still have one!

Whether that’s through negotiation, industrial action, or tens of thousands legal claims and years of litigation is not yet clear. What IS clear is that fight is far from over, but if you want to be a part of that future, stay with your union and help shape it together, it won’t be easy but if we keep clam, keep together and keep going, we will get there

Please do not forget that you will be balloted on any proposed changes and the starting point, as confirmed by CEO Alex Cruz remains current terms and conditions. If those are altered without agreement being reached and we remain cautiously optimistic that an agreement can be reached, Industrial and legal action will follow .
Hoping for the best,Woody.
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F

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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#415 Post by Woody » Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:31 am

A pilot’s view
Perhaps if BA had approached this whole afair in a more professional manner we would be further towards a solution now instead of banging heads. Remember, the opening salvo to this was BA announcing 12000 plus compulsory redundancies and further redundancies for everyone else with an offer of a new contract on vastly inferior pay and T & Cs.
If, just if they had got around the table first, talked about the problem and discussed solutions in an open and honest exchange as has happened during previous crisis we could have avoided all this animosity and come out of this with a bit of pride and a spirited attitude to the future. But no, what we have is a bitter, dissalusioned workforce who will either walk away next week despising their previous employer or you will have the chosen ones, equally bitter and angry but forced into accepting their lot as their is no alternative.

Remember it wasn't so long ago that BA was sending everyone pin badges and invites to '100 year' celebrations because "our people are our biggest asset". What a crock!

This could have been handled so much better. Only one person is to blame.
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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#416 Post by barkingmad » Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:48 am

A very sad item on the effect of the plague;

Coronavirus: How the travel downturn is sending jet planes to 'boneyards' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53549861

But it has also been raised elsewhere that the current thinning out of labour forces in the industry mirrors the off-the-shelf plans which were auctioned immediately after 9/11.

Wait for very bad news which will justify and/or mask whichever draconian measures have been designed and are awaiting implementation where the bosses apparently are not to blame for the grief caused.

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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#417 Post by PHXPhlyer » Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:40 am

Virgin Atlantic files for bankruptcy in the US

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/04/business ... index.html

Virgin Atlantic files for bankruptcy in the US
By Rob McLean, CNN Business

Updated 7:31 PM ET, Tue August 4, 2020
Airlines push to get people flying again
NOW PLAYING
Airlines push to get people flying again
CNN Business




00:06
/
02:14




New York (CNN Business)Virgin Atlantic has filed for bankruptcy in the United States as the global airline industry reels from the coronavirus pandemic.

The company, which is based in the United Kingdom, filed for Chapter 15 bankruptcy protection in New York on Tuesday.
Virgin Atlantic hasn't been immune from the airline industry's pandemic problems. In July, the company received a £1.2 billion ($1.5 billion) rescue deal to keep the airline solvent just days before it was due to resume passenger flights.
The carrier said that the recapitalization plan would be deployed over 18 months and has the support of shareholders, new investors and existing creditors.
Virgin Atlantic could not be reached immediately for comment Tuesday evening.
Global air travel isn't expected to fully recover from the downturn until 2024, according to the International Air Transport Association, which represents 290 airlines. The group blamed the sluggish recovery on several factors, including a lack of consumer confidence, the decline in business travel, and fresh coronavirus spikes in the United States and elsewhere.

PP

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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#418 Post by Woody » Wed Aug 05, 2020 2:01 pm

Looks like BA might’ve made a decision on my future by next week, or maybe not :((
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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#419 Post by G-CPTN » Wed Aug 05, 2020 2:03 pm

Keeping my eyes crossed for you . . .

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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#420 Post by AtomKraft » Fri Aug 07, 2020 8:10 am

This shower are only focussed on money.
All this talk about 'our people' is utter hogwash.

They are ruthless, sociopaths who'd flog their own granny for a buck.

Some great people work there but the management are not fit to run a whelk stall. The reduced the status of the pilots and crew until now they have about the same status as the fuel.
Just something else you need to stick in it before it will fly.

But the worst thing, is that they're actually proud of it.

In my view the rot really set in with Ayling, but the new lot continued what he started, enthusiastically.

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