The airship cometh again...

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John Hill
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Re: The airship cometh again...

#21 Post by John Hill » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:34 pm

Airships may be all very nice but what I would like to see is a modern version of this ...

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Re: The airship cometh again...

#22 Post by Ex-Ascot » Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:44 am

Ex-Ascot wrote:
Tue Mar 01, 2016 6:49 am
This is great news I have been following progress with interest. My thesis for my MBA was, 'The Commercial application of Airships'. Indeed, I was invited to present part of it to the Royal Aeronautical Society. Met some very interesting people there.

I opted for slides instead of power point - too much room for error. Mrs Ex-Ascot operated the OHP. Think the chaps were more interested in the short skirt suspenders and black stockings than what I had to say.

As an eco-tourism consultant I would like to see one over here for airborne luxury safaris. Small number of people, live on board for a few days. Zero impact on the environment and a great viewing platform.
I posted this over three years ago. It must be over 20 years since I wrote the paper and presented it to the RAeS.

At last: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/trav ... -POLE.html

This is exactly what I was proposing. However I do not like the interior design. For air safaris down here I was proposing an 'Out of Africa' themed interior.
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Re: The airship cometh again...

#23 Post by Slasher » Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:59 am

Sh!t I wouldn’t mind me crewing that thing sah! How do we get a Big Balloon endorsement bunged on our respective ATPLs? I’d be happy just being your F/O if you’ll ‘ave me. :)

Tell TS that on very long flights I do promise not to turn you into a total sex-crazed moonshine-addicted big boob-loving drunk (much as I’d like to).

For a 36h flight I guess would need about 4 sets of crews. For Air Safari Airways it’d be only 24h or so?

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Re: The airship cometh again...

#24 Post by Pontius Navigator » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:36 am

Ultra modern decor but haven't the artists forgotten the brief? It is to look OUT not in. I see one view shows a floor window but from the settee the view is limited. That cosy elliptic lounge (my predictive text put STUPID) layout is fine for a super yacht party. I think, especially after a few hours, most people would want to experience the solitude.

As for unpressurised silence with the windows open, what do they think all that white stuff is, sugar icing?

Not knocking the idea, just the design. My trip to the pole was fascinating but rather higher than theirs. At least the North Pole is flat!

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Re: The airship cometh again...

#25 Post by Ex-Ascot » Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:31 pm

Pontius Navigator wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:36 am
Ultra modern decor but haven't the artists forgotten the brief? It is to look OUT not in. I see one view shows a floor window but from the settee the view is limited. That cosy elliptic lounge (my predictive text put STUPID) layout is fine for a super yacht party. I think, especially after a few hours, most people would want to experience the solitude.

As for unpressurised silence with the windows open, what do they think all that white stuff is, sugar icing?

Not knocking the idea, just the design. My trip to the pole was fascinating but rather higher than theirs. At least the North Pole is flat!
PN I am sure that they have done their market research but so have I. 'I have been to the North Pole', a great dinner stopper.' I have done an airship African safari', maybe not so dramatic but I stick by my thesis. I am going to see if I can make contact with them.

My trip to the Pole was a bit of a disaster. Got airborne from Reykjavik the flaps wouldn't come in. We were MTOW. Told the F/E to do emergency jettison. Pissing fuel all over the sea. Then went though check list. Last was ask for ATC approval. They said NO that is our most valuable fishing grounds. Too bloody late. What did they want a tonne of fuel in there or an aircraft?
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Re: The airship cometh again...

#26 Post by Pontius Navigator » Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:57 pm

Agree your African safari would be more interesting. Would you do a dawn to dusk of midday - midday allowing for a convivial evening, talks, and a comfortable bed?

The Arctic one with 24 hours daylight would be quite different.

In our trip, on the way back, I wandered up the front and asked about Svalbard. They had never heard of Longyerben. They were quite surprised when they then called up and got an instant reply with the weather 😉

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Re: The airship cometh again...

#27 Post by Ex-Ascot » Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:32 pm

PN the game are around when it is cooler. Early morning and late afternoon are the best time for sightings. Plonk the thing in the bush for a late lunch picnic set up outside and maybe a walk around (armed guides) this is what we usually do when on our own, then an afternoon and sunset cruise. Transit between areas overnight. Small numbers, no lectures just a safari guide on board to move around and talk to the clients. We have many guide friends who would kill for this this job, Guess the flight deck is sorted out. Me and the Capt alternating command. TS is in charge of ATC and bandages.
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Re: The airship cometh again...

#28 Post by Boac » Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:35 pm

ex-A wrote:My trip to the Pole was a bit of a disaster.
- what on earth were you in that required an emergency fuel dump with stuck flaps?

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Re: The airship cometh again...

#29 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:27 pm

Boac wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:35 pm
ex-A wrote:My trip to the Pole was a bit of a disaster.
- what on earth were you in that required an emergency fuel dump with stuck flaps?
Probably too busy hobnobbing with so-called English Royalty whereas true explorers were doing their best to open up the North West Passage to Canadian pilchards and good brothels...

What have the English given us, apart from crap, in the last 150 years..?. ;)))

I was going to mention Neville Shute in the context of dirigibles but the last time I did I was given a warning... :)
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Re: The airship cometh again...

#30 Post by Ex-Ascot » Sun Nov 10, 2019 8:23 am

Boac wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:35 pm
ex-A wrote:My trip to the Pole was a bit of a disaster.
- what on earth were you in that required an emergency fuel dump with stuck flaps?
Not sure about other aircraft with the same setup, there must be more than just the VC10. You have to accelerate between selecting T/O flap to clean. The things were stuck half way. It is so long ago I can't remember the exact details. All I know that we were too heavy to fly in that configuration. For the record we used to do this trip once a year to test equipment for navigation over the pole. All the crew got a certificate. The 'nearly' on the one below is a bit of a stretch of the truth. We didn't get further than Iceland.
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Re: The airship cometh again...

#31 Post by Slasher » Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:03 am

All I know that we were too heavy to fly in that configuration.
Never came across an enroute (structural?) flap limit weight* sah. Max inflight flaps up weight certainly. But anyway with those bits of wing sticking out you probably wouldn’t’ve had the fuel to make destination, let alone land with required reserves.

* Was this something unique to the VC10 or quite common?

PS: I like the ‘nearly teached...’ =))

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Re: The airship cometh again...

#32 Post by Slasher » Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:53 am

Sorry...reached.

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Re: The airship cometh again...

#33 Post by Pontius Navigator » Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:02 pm

Ex-A, mine was also signed by Spike, the following year I think. Pete Brantwaite was the Captain.

We were loaded with manufacturers kit including new fangled GPS.

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Re: The airship cometh again...

#34 Post by Ex-Ascot » Sun Nov 10, 2019 12:20 pm

Slasher wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:03 am
All I know that we were too heavy to fly in that configuration.
Never came across an enroute (structural?) flap limit weight* sah. Max inflight flaps up weight certainly. But anyway with those bits of wing sticking out you probably wouldn’t’ve had the fuel to make destination, let alone land with required reserves.

* Was this something unique to the VC10 or quite common?

PS: I like the ‘nearly teached...’ =))
No idea. It just would not fly at that weight in that configuration. The destination was back into Reykjavik having done the Pole. We just did a large visual circuit. Seem to remember they cranked them up and we did a flapless ferry back to the UK. Against regs with pax on board but guess they were all military. Once had to put HRH PP on the crew list to do a ferry. Well, he is a Marshal of the Royal Air Force.

Posts crossed. Bloody Hell PN. That was my time. Pete was a colleague. Must check log books because we certainly flew together.
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Re: The airship cometh again...

#35 Post by Pontius Navigator » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:17 pm

ExA, no. I was on the Nav School staff. I first met Spike at HQ FEAF in 1964, then in Offutt in 1966 when he was on Victors, and then 1971 when he was on IX, last bumped into him in the club a few years ago. Strange how you can keep on bumping into some people.

And Chris Lumb?

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Re: The airship cometh again...

#36 Post by Ex-Ascot » Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:29 am

I only vaguely remember Chris Lumb. See I flew with him with me as F/O way back. First flew with Pete Branthwaite 1st Sept 1989 as my F/O for a weekend in Washington DC. That seems to be it so he obviously got a command after that. I tended to fly with just three F/Os as we only had three Royal and VIP crews. I did the rostering for that so I got to choose, not that it made much difference they were all top notch.

Been in contact with the OBS to try to get a copy of my thesis. I had a printed copy somewhere, probably lost in the move. The only other copy was on a floppy drive.
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Re: The airship cometh again...

#37 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:53 am

In fact, despite my last inarticulate post (an excess of bile and wine, please excuse me), I like Ex-Ascot's idea of luxury dirigible flights over Africa although I guess there are a number of practical caveats to this idea, namely some of the usual airship type issues like fragility, susceptibility to strong winds and bad weather, availability of helium (particularly in Africa) as well as some more local issues like availability of maintenance facilities (think of fabrics repairs etc). Nonetheless the thought of gliding over the veld at low level from a great wildlife viewing vantage point, while being served a G&T by a white clad waiter, is hugely attractive.

I wonder if anybody has trialed this idea on that continent?

Notwithstanding this very interesting "African" Zeppelin...

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Re: The airship cometh again...

#38 Post by Pontius Navigator » Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:00 am

TGG, your infrastructure* costs would drive up costs. As for gliding over the veld, it is already popular with hot air ballooning, though firing up the burners might be a tad intrusive.

*The Malays bought the Hawk. It requires 6,000 psi nitrogen. They didn't have that so, on the basis that air is 76% nitrogen they used air with obvious consequences.

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Re: The airship cometh again...

#39 Post by Pontius Navigator » Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:07 am

Ex-Ascot, PB like many before him, including Chris Lumb and many before him came from the V-Force. One of the first was John Knapp, then Les Aylott,but his face didn't fit as he wouldn't move to RAF Carterton 😀. John Reeve was another contemporary of Pete. And not to forget the infamous BEagle.

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Re: The airship cometh again...

#40 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:24 am

Pontius Navigator wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:00 am
TGG, your infrastructure* costs would drive up costs. As for gliding over the veld, it is already popular with hot air ballooning, though firing up the burners might be a tad intrusive.

*The Malays bought the Hawk. It requires 6,000 psi nitrogen. They didn't have that so, on the basis that air is 76% nitrogen they used air with obvious consequences.
I was thinking of an airship with solar panels to charge the batteries that power electrical motors so hopefully not too disturbing for the animals! Flitting from one mooring mast to another at luxury camps might make for a wonderful holiday. :)
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