GPS Jamming - will airlines have to start training pilots to navigate? Shock/horror!

[Boac]

The recurrence of alleged Russian GPS jamming in a recent NATO exercise near Finland leads to questions of the 'reliability' of the so-far sacrosanct GPS aviation navigation and approach systems.

I'm pretty sure they are jamming in the UK too as every time Mrs B is aboard and we use satnav in the car it routes via handbag shops...........

[ian16th]

Is it not true that the Chinese play about with the GPS signals, in a manner that makes a 'western' sat nav inaccurate in mainland China?

I have something stuck in my grey cell about reading some such.

[boing]

First we need to decide whether we are talking about jamming or spoofing. Jamming is pretty obvious, it probably makes the equipment obviously inoperable and it forces an immediate reversion to other nav. techniques. Spoofing is more tricky because it may take a while for a human operator to realise that data is unreliable and in the case of automated systems, such a cruise weapons, it could lead to total failure.

Jamming can be crude and in this form it takes a lot of power and for ground or aircraft based jammers its range is relatively short. Basically to double the range of a jammer you need to increase the power fourfold and this does not take into account propagation problems.

Spoofers are more tricky because they could be as small as a ship or aircraft borne transmitter system. You don't overcome the GPS signal by spoofing, you modify it so that it is unusable or unreliable.

As far as commercial aviation is concerned a totally inoperative GPS is really no problem. Once you realize the GPS is dead with a modern aircraft you can rely on a good gyro only nav. system to get you where you need to go and a visual approach (remember those) is always available. I would be quite happy crossing the Pacific on gyros only after updating the inertial position leaving the US coast. Of course, the position reports would get progressively ropey and it may take a bit of map reading after you see the arrival coast unless the country wisely left some VORs operating. Now, spoofing an airliner would be a big project and probably only worth it if you wanted to cause a big international incident by tricking an aircraft to enter secure airspace.

.

[Boac]

Once you realize the GPS is dead with a modern aircraft you can rely on a good gyro only nav. system to get you where you need to go and a visual approach (remember those) is always available. I would be quite happy crossing the Pacific on gyros only after updating the inertial position leaving the US coast.

- yes, you or I and many others here, but not the majority of modern younger pilots. 10 years back I flew with an F/O who was TOTALLY lost over the Bay of Biscay because I turned her map display down. No idea of position, ETAs, fuel checks etc etc without it.

Hence the thread title.

[ExSp33db1rd]

I frequently get young PPL students asking me .... Wot's a sextant ?

Couple of years ago I flew with a friend in his Cessna from the L.A. area to the $100 hamburger lunch location about an hour to the North. He asked me to pole the aircraft whilst he played with numerous iPad and Smartphone Apps. to work out where we were, where we were going, how to get there, weather on arrival etc. ( it was a CAVOK VFR flight ) I felt most uneasy flying over unknown territory ( previously only seen from 30,000 ft whilst approaching LAX ) and only following headings that he gave me, and demanded the Sectional Chart, that fortunately the FAA still demanded be carried. Once I had "the picture" I felt a lot happier and settled down to enjoy the flight, and subsequent hamburger.

[llondel]

I've always wanted to learn proper celestial navigation with a sextant. Anyone got a good reference book on how to do it?

[boing]

llondel,

I always narrowly managed to miss doing any astro myself but I had a good friend who was deeply into it and was often invited along as guest navigator on various yacht races. I think your best, serious, way of getting cel. nav. training would be through one of the sailing organisations. I believe there are even certifications involved.

There are internet courses and probably computer simulator training programmes available as an introduction and they would likely have a list of useful books.

.

[ExSp33db1rd]

Gave all my Astro Course training notes to the B.A. Heritage Museum a few years back - but that ain't much use to you, sorry !

[Undried Plum]

I've always wanted to learn proper celestial navigation with a sextant. Anyone got a good reference book on how to do it?

I commend Henning Umland's site and Part 4 of what sailors know simply as Bowditch.


Appended to add that Umland's brilliant primer can be downloaded in pdf format here.

[Cacophonix]

Just as well then these canny British scientists have invented a quantum compass or accelerometer.


https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/11/1 ... m_compass/


Caco

[CharlieOneSix]

.......it can currently only measure in one plane. The boffins say they will soon be able to take measurements in three planes ....

So presumably in the Typhoon first and then what...?

[Cacophonix]

.......it can currently only measure in one plane. The boffins say they will soon be able to take measurements in three planes ....

So presumably in the Typhoon first and then what...?

Very droll indeed C16.

Seriously though if (a big if) this device can be miniaturised and made affordable it will certainly be found in many planes indeed!

Caco

[Pontius Navigator]

One of the last flights I actually navigated was with a student nav on his second trip. The aircraft developed an electrical fault that I experienced some 25 years previous. All the kit that needed wiggly amps went TU.

I jumped in his seat and began a manual air plot. Bliss.

Astro wise I liked the accuracy doing a 5 or 7 shot sandwich fix. I found it incredibly frustrating trying to do a 3 star fix at medium level with cloud and turbulence.

The most satisfying a 3 pl merpass fix near the equator.

[ExSp33db1rd]

Quite good fun navigating over the North Pole, too !

[G-CPTN]

Don't most iPhones have a star chart built-in that can display the cloudless sky with all the constellations visible?

[ian16th]

Quite good fun navigating over the North Pole, too !

We had a speaker at a SAAFA lunch, he flew Turbo-Daks in and out of the South Pole.

Among the gems of his very interesting session, was the fact that on take off, one thing that you did know was that you were heading North!

[Undried Plum]

I do wonder how many of today's current Boeing and Airbus drivers could or would have done what Gordon Vette did when he so cleverly found and guided a lost cropspray pilot in the vastness of the Pacific Ocean.

[Cacophonix]

I do wonder how many of today's current Boeing and Airbus drivers could or would have done what Gordon Vette did when he so cleverly found and guided a lost cropspray pilot in the vastness of the Pacific Ocean.

A master navigator of the old kind, Sadly lost an old crew member, on the Prochnow rescue flight, later in the Antarctic due to one of those confounded digital machines being incorrectly programmed and produced a masterful investigation and book looking into the tragedy and ensuing cover up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Vette

Caco

[Undried Plum]

Gordon Vette is one of my heroes. He would have achieved that status for either on those two achievements.

This evening I plan to do some astronav number crunching to get my head around the nittygritty of how he found the Cessna AgTuck.

Meanwhile, here's an interesting documentary about the Erebus thing.

[Cacophonix]

Undried Plum many thanks for posting those videos. Frankly shocking how Air New Zealand behaved and how Collin's posthumous reputation, Vette's and even Mahon's careers were later blighted by the airline and the NZ "establishment". Certainly a dark stain on Air New Zealand's history. The excellent TV film reminded me that it was Gordon Brooks who had been the Flight Engineer on Vette's flight that had guided the Prochnow's Cessna to safety.

Caco