The secret system that prevents pilots who hate each other sharing a cockpit

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Capetonian

The secret system that prevents pilots who hate each other sharing a cockpit

#1 Post by Capetonian » Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:45 pm

Imagine spending the best part of 17 hours stuck in a tiny room with somebody you really dislike, with no opportunity to escape, while being required to constantly interact.

This is what happens when two pilots who don’t get on are rostered on the same flight route.

Pilots may all sound the same over the tannoy but they are real people with real feelings, and in the same way that you might think your colleague is a wazzock, so might they.

And as it is particularly important that the flight deck - basically a pilot’s office - hosts a calm, considerate and communicative environment, airlines have developed a system to stop two people who hate each other getting stuck in there together.

Called “Do Not Pair”, the system works thus: each captain, first and second officer has an electronic list which feeds into the carrier’s scheduling system, to which they can add the names of anyone they do not want to be sat beside for hours on end. The rota then prohibits those two names ending up in the same cockpit.

It is a lesser-known element of a pilot’s nine-to-five, but a quick scour of the Internet finds a number of incidents that have led pilots to add a name to their “Do Not Pair” list. One relays the story of a first officer whose captain wanted him to be his “wing man” for meeting members of the fairer sex on a layover. To cut a long story short, the first officer ended up adding the other pilot to his list. In 2008, an American Airlines captain caused a stir after filing a complaint about the pilot of another aircraft for taxiing too slowly – landing them with a 15-day unpaid suspension.

“We would imagine his Do Not Pair list is growing by the minute,” a Dallas News commentator quipped.
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In an article for the LA Times last year, a flight attendant wrote about the lists.

Elliot Hester explained how he witnessed a pilot have a violent falling out with a third officer only minutes before a flight was due to take off from Rio de Janeiro for Miami. The service would have been cancelled were it not for a 10-minute emergency meeting “where differences were resolved, or at least shelved”. After landing in Miami, however, Hester said the third officer “pulled out his laptop, logged onto the employee website, entered the captain’s name and clicked: Do Not Pair”.

Author and pilot Patrick Smith doesn’t mention the list by name in his book Cockpit Confidential, which answers dozens of burning questions about air travel, but he does reference how noting which colleagues you want to avoid is part of normal schedule planning.

“Every 30 days, around the middle of the month, we bid our preferences for the following month: where we’d like to fly, which days we’d like off, and which insufferable colleagues we hope to avoid,” he writes. “What we actually end up with hinges on seniority. Senior pilots get the choicest pickings; juniors get whatever is left over.”

One small saving grace for those pilots who don’t really get on is a regulation called the Sterile Cockpit Rule, which forbids pilots from talking about anything other than essential flight-related things when the aircraft is below 10,000 feet, to ensure maximum concentration on the flight deck. So at least their inane chatter is limited to cruising altitude.

Slasher

Re: The secret system that prevents pilots who hate each other sharing a cockpit

#2 Post by Slasher » Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:20 pm

As a junior F/O in TAA I hated being paired with bloody captains who were farm maniacs, telling me how they pride themselves on their fence post alignment and sheep shearing skills - then they'd proceed for the next hour describing how they do it!

Next we're those weirdos who put little gnomes and other junk all around the combing and pat 'em occasionally to ensure things go smoothly.

Then there were the ones who'd tape little printed cards on the panel with "The buck stops here!" and "Copilots should be seen and not heard" and other ridiculous crap.

But the worst - THE ABSOLUTE WORST - were your hard core born-agains. Christ they were positively unendurable! Apart from trying to save your wretched soul at every opportunity, they'd pray when some form of demanding sh!t was gonna happen.

I remember once in the DC9 we were to do an ILS into Sydney as a Sourherly Buster was rolling in. He said "you have the aircraft my son" (I hated it when these freaks called me "my son" all the time!) and then proceeded to say a prayer asking that we'd all end up safe! After he took over I must admit he did a good job but after landing he said "the lord god protected us my son!" I felt like yelling "FFS it was your friggin' god who put the Buster in our path and YOU were the one who got us down safe!" Flying a month with these nutcases was enough to drive one to devil worship. I never went out with 'em on nighstops because a) they wouldn't drink, b) I'd get a lecture if I stared at a nice set of tits, and c) try to save my soul by telling me im destined for Hell.

The good ones were those who chilled, did the job, and asked if you've gotten your end away lately. Alas flying with the good guys was a rarity - usually only off a Reserve callout - but when I did it was great! :)

One guy on the 727 gave me his approach briefing into Cairns one night during really **** stormy wx. He said "Runway 15 VOR DME approach. This is gonna be a real bitch. Any questions?"

No bloody prayers, no taped cards and no frigging gnome patting. I understood his brief perfectly! ;)))

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Re: The secret system that prevents pilots who hate each other sharing a cockpit

#3 Post by Cacophonix » Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:30 pm

Slasher wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:20 pm
As a junior F/O in TAA I hated being paired with bloody captains who were farm maniacs, telling me how they pride themselves on their fence post alignment and sheep shearing skills - then they'd proceed for the next hour describing how they do it!

Next we're those weirdos who put little gnomes and other junk all around the combing and pat 'em occasionally to ensure things go smoothly.

Then there were the ones who'd tape little printed cards on the panel with "The buck stops here!" and "Copilots should be seen and not heard" and other ridiculous crap.

But the worst - THE ABSOLUTE WORST - were your hard core born-agains. Christ they were positively unendurable! Apart from trying to save your wretched soul at every opportunity, they'd pray when some form of demanding sh!t was gonna happen.

I remember once in the DC9 we were to do an ILS into Sydney as a Sourherly Buster was rolling in. He said "you have the aircraft my son" (I hated it when these freaks called me "my son" all the time!) and then proceeded to say a prayer asking that we'd all end up safe! After he took over I must admit he did a good job but after landing he said "the lord god protected us my son!" I felt like yelling "FFS it was your friggin' god who put the Buster in our path and YOU were the one who got us down safe!" Flying a month with these nutcases was enough to drive one to devil worship. I never went out with 'em on nighstops because a) they wouldn't drink, b) I'd get a lecture if I stared at a nice set of tits, and c) try to save my soul by telling me im destined for Hell.

The good ones were those who chilled, did the job, and asked if you've gotten your end away lately. Alas flying with the good guys was a rarity - usually only off a Reserve callout - but when I did it was great! :)
=))

I hear you brother Slasher, I feel your pain... I agree entirely. God botherers are really the pits (and not a Pitts Special)...


Oops maybe I shouldn't mention feeling the pain in your presence given what happened to the other guy you were rostered with... =))


As for lucky charms, this one always makes me laugh...







Caco

Slasher

Re: The secret system that prevents pilots who hate each other sharing a cockpit

#4 Post by Slasher » Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:51 pm

Oh yes mate...

"HERE COMES THE PAIN BABY! HERE COMES THE PAIN!"

Imagine suddenly getting that screamed in your earhole at full blast as you're passing 100 feet above the CAT 1 ILS MDH in heavy rain with 550m vis and a 25kt xwind!

At least now in retirement I can have a bit of chuckle. ;)))

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Re: The secret system that prevents pilots who hate each other sharing a cockpit

#5 Post by ExSp33db1rd » Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:39 am

Early days in BOAC, the Captains were mostly ex WWII bomber pilots, and manipulated the type of aircraft that they flew, and the routes, mostly on seniority and sheer force of personality. Initially route allowances were only paid on USA routes, elsewhere it was hotel accomm. including full board, i.e. one had to spend ones' own money in the bar, so the most senior, and most forceful, only flew to the USA, brought their USA Dollars home and earned the title North Atlantic Barons. I've previously mentioned that some of them, but not all, couldn't fly an NDB let down, or ILS to save their lives, but pop out of cloud too high, too fast, not configured etc. and say " the runway's over there, Sir" (never forgetting the Sir ! ) and they would straighten up and fly a magnificent manual approach and landing. No problem with Boeings new MCAS invention to interfere with them. In retrospect I'm glad I had the experience, I learned a lot about flying, and now CRM ( none of them would have put up with that nonsense ! ) and to a certain extent I guess having survived 4 years of being shot at gave them a certain sense of superiority over us lesser mortals, valid or not.

Once waiting in US Customs, a PanAm crew walked over and said " are you guys practising this new Monitored Approach stuff ?" We said not, he was confusing us with BEA, who were at that time. "Well," he replied, Pan Am has always used the Monitored Approach technique"? "Really? we answered, we didn't know that " He nodded at his co-pilot, "Yes, I fly, he monitors."

One N.Atl. B. used to travel to and from his Reading home on the bus - few could afford cars at that time, despite tales of inflated salaries to the contrary, and not wishing to travel in uniform positioned a locker in the crew reporting area, and left his uniform at the airport. The Stratocruiser Constellation was the premier aircraft of the fleet at the time, and all the Barons aspired to fly it, and it was used to fly the 9.00 pm departure Premium First Class "Monarch" Service to New York, and turning up one night he found that his uniform trousers had been stolen. He informed Ops. that the Monarch would be delayed that night, as he had to return home, by bus, to collect another pair of trousers. "No problem Captain," said the Duty Officer, "we'll just call out the standby, you can stay at home." "You do NOT call the standby, said the Captain, tonight's Monarch service is MY service." And it was. That hit the London Evening Standard's headline next day - BOAC Captain delays New York passengers whilst he collected his trousers. Such was their power. Try that on with Ryanair today ! ( or any airline )

Following a divorce caused by one of my colleagues, I joined SIA, who had started what is now a fairly common occurrence, i.e. relief Captains added to a regular crew to allow longer duty sectors. A few years later I Iearnt that my nemesis had also applied to join SIA, and I advised the management that - whereas I couldn't tell them how to run their airline, should he turn up as my extra Captain, or me his, I would refuse to climb aboard and fly with him, in any capacity. I later learned that his application had been refused, but I never enquired why ! "Don't get mad, get even !" I savoured that moment.

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Re: The secret system that prevents pilots who hate each other sharing a cockpit

#6 Post by ExSp33db1rd » Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:03 am

Imagine suddenly getting that screamed in your earhole at full blast as you're passing 100 feet above the CAT 1 ILS MDH in heavy rain with 550m vis and a 25kt xwind!
Not exactly screamed at me, but on an approach like that to Philadelphia one day, ATC advised a taxying American Airlines 727 of our position on approach and could he make an immediate departure. Yes, was the reply, but we're not going to, we're going to stay here and watch this Jumbo land ! Barstewards. Worked out OK, so Bah! Shucks! to them !

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Re: The secret system that prevents pilots who hate each other sharing a cockpit

#7 Post by Ex-Ascot » Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:54 am

On Monarch some of the self starter Captains begrudged any first officer who was ex-military. Not still trying to pay off his mortgage due to initial training costs and quite often more experienced than him (not on type of course). Also drawing a military pension. There was occasionally tension on the flight deck in this scenario. Never a safety issue though. It was a very professional outfit. If it was ever mentioned I used to ask why they hadn't joined the military and got their training paid for by HMQ. Many had applied of course but they all seemed to failed the medical. Oh yea.

An aside. As an F/O I used to fly with a captain who was an ex-RAAF chopper pilot. Shot down twice over Vietnam. Got pursued through the jungle by the Vietcong on one occasion. Huge guy who would take no *****. Rule number one, never get involved with a disruptive passenger. A disruptive passenger was reported en route. He put on his jacket and hat. This guy was in a triple, window seat. Capt reached across the other two pax, picked the guy up by the lapels and slammed him against the window saying a few choice words! Not a squeak out of him for the rest of the flight. =))
'Yes, Madam, I am drunk, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly.' Sir Winston Churchill.

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Re: The secret system that prevents pilots who hate each other sharing a cockpit

#8 Post by Undried Plum » Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:25 am

I bet most of the British Cabinet wish they had a system like that of the thread title. :ymdevil:

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Re: The secret system that prevents pilots who hate each other sharing a cockpit

#9 Post by ExSp33db1rd » Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:18 am

never get involved with a disruptive passenger.


S.O. / Nav. Just before take-off Captain was advised of two pax. refusing to sit down, demanding upgrade to First Class. Capt. told me to wear his Jacket and hat ( instant promotion ! ) and sort it out. As I was approaching the pax. undeniable sound of engines spooling up, so I asked the pax, if they would rather i stayed and talked to them, or go back and assist the co-pilot with the take-off ? Collapse of stout party(s)

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Re: The secret system that prevents pilots who hate each other sharing a cockpit

#10 Post by Rwy in Sight » Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:47 am

There is an story somewhere about a Captain being told that he is on all FO (except one) such a list and if/when this FO is gone the Captain is too.

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Re: The secret system that prevents pilots who hate each other sharing a cockpit

#11 Post by Slasher » Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:26 am

never get involved with a disruptive passenger.

I always used the psychological muscle that was available back in the cabin.

Once had the Purser call up while taxiing out saying a bloody pax refuses to sit down because he suddenly stood up in the aisle and demanded an upgrade to FC. Purser said he only had a Cattle pass. I told Purser I'll make a PA.

"Ladies and gentlemen this is the captain. We are ready for our takeoff but there is a passenger who refuses to comply with airline regulations and Civil Aviation Directives by not sitting down in his seat and fastening his seat belt. I cannot legally takeoff until he complies. Once he does we will then depart. If he does not I will have no choice but to taxi back to our gate and offload him, which will delay our already late flight even further. Thank you."

I could hear the derisive yells in Arabic through the cockpit door gradually building up - then silence. After 5 secs the Purser dinged "cabin ready for takeoff captain!"

The dick was unsurprisingly a bloody Kuwaiti. So I had no qualms whatsoever in writing up a Security report on him.

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Re: The secret system that prevents pilots who hate each other sharing a cockpit

#12 Post by ExSp33db1rd » Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:40 am

I always used the psychological muscle...............
Yeah, being The Captain had little to do with flying the aeroplane, that was the easy bit.

Interesting that following some recent accidents, like the German aircraft deliberately subjected to CFIT in the Southern Alps a couple of years back, the shrinks are looking at issues which might indicate that one shouldn't be allowed to be in command of an aircraft if there are "personal issues" that might affect one's mental capacity to do the job ?

When my life fell apart 40 years ago, resulting in eventual divorce, I was offered "time off" if I wanted to avail myself of some downtime ? No thanks, I said, my life is out of my control at the moment, if I were to sit at home and mope I might well do something totally out of character, flying is something that I still have total control over and and can take pride in achieving to the standards required, I don't want anyone to take that away from me as well, that would be the end. Fortunately commonsense prevailed and the PC, H&S, Brigades were kept a bay. Not so sure I would be given that choice today ?

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Re: The secret system that prevents pilots who hate each other sharing a cockpit

#13 Post by Slasher » Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:16 am

Yes ExSp33d. Work (esp that which one enjoys) is good medicine when emotionally down in the gutter. When tragedy struck (a few years after I left SIA) the only thing that got me out of bed for each day was to bugger off on flying duty. Otherwise I would've been a bedridden drunk 24/7.

Fortunately like you I could leave all my troubles on the ground till I got back again.

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