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Quick Question

#1 Post by fin » Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:39 pm

Yesterday the F temperature at KJFK reached 99 degrees. I am away from good internet or any useful reference material, so could anyone who knows tell me how close to the end of the takeoff runway some of these heavily laden aircraft might be as they leave for Europe, with, one suspects, a full load of fuel and SLF?

Thanks.
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Re: Quick Question

#2 Post by Pontius Navigator » Sun Jul 21, 2019 5:46 pm

Fin, I would say 'sufficient' to comply with the appropriate regulations.

I would expect fuel or pax to be reduced if there was a problem. If fuel was reduced below minimums then an intermediate refuelling stop would be needed. Cheaper to bump passengers.

I was on an Egyptair flight where all the luggage was bumped.

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Re: Quick Question

#3 Post by ExSp33db1rd » Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:03 pm

I was on an Egyptair flight where all the luggage was bumped.
New Delhi, early morning departure delayed until nearly noon due to some maintenance issue. Aircraft previously loaded for the earlier lower temperature departure, but now the temperature was over 40 and climbing, and a/c now too heavy. Defuelling just sufficient to be possible was being constantly overtaken by the ever rising temp. So then took off all the baggage which, with the fuel already removed, just allowed enough fuel remaining to make Bahrain instead of the initial European destination.

I didn’t tell the pax until we were airborne on the way to Bahrain !

Not popular, but the alternative was to have stayed in Delhi all day, at the airport ( staff advised ) until the middle of the next night when temperature had dropped again.

What would you have done ?

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Re: Quick Question

#4 Post by barkingmad » Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:07 pm

Above 'screen' height as per 21st Century equivalent of whatever horse manure has been substituted for the old Perf A calculations?

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Re: Quick Question

#5 Post by Pontius Navigator » Sun Jul 21, 2019 8:56 pm

ExSp, Belslow in Masirah. It had a flight refuelling probe weighing 390lb. Needed to offload equivalent weight, ie 2 people.

Cargo was two RAF Regiment officer. 11 men and all equipment.

Command decision;

Pilot Officer Rock - FS everybody off, can't split the party

Yes Sir.

Rock officer: we will go ahead and look after all the kit.

Yes Sir.

What would you have done :)

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Re: Quick Question

#6 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:21 pm

Makes sense to me. Doesn't need an officer to head the delayed party. Probably does need an Officer at the intended destination. Two officers together can plan the next step, and will be accommodated together. Does need someone with officer/NCO authority to guard the kit in my experience. Leaving two airmen rocks behind is asking for trouble. Leaving 1 airman behind and an NCO/Officer is also difficult since they probably will not be accommodated/messed together. Any kit left unattended at either end is highly likely to 'walk'. The NCOs can organise training whilst delayed a lot more easily with a complete squad. Likely to get more priority to move the 11 men than 2. I am happy with his call.
Oh, and accounts will be desperate to reunite the men with their kit so they aren't paying for clothing, etc.

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Re: Quick Question

#7 Post by Pontius Navigator » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:26 am

Logical.

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Re: Quick Question

#8 Post by ian16th » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:01 am

Make me pleased to have been a Cpl/Tech and not having to make all of these complicated decisions.
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Re: Quick Question

#9 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:09 am

Cpl/Tech walks past Army Major on joint base without saluting.

"You there! Don't you salute Officers?"
"Sorry Sir, didn't recognise you. I'm RAF"
"If you were in the Army, you'd have to salute me!"
"No I wouldn't, Sir. If I was in the Army, I'd be a Colonel"

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Re: Quick Question

#10 Post by ian16th » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:40 am

The original is about when Junior Techs wore a single, point up chevron. /\

At the Harwich - Hook of Holland ship embarkation, run by the Army, maybe the RASC? During NS days.

A 2nd Lt is doing the organising and calling for boarding.

"Officers and their ladies!"

Next he calls:

"NCO's and their wives!"

They all board, when the 2nd Lt spots a J/T still in the ranks.

"You, Lance Cpl, get aboard!"
"I'm not a Lance Cpl sir, I'm a Junior Technician."
"If you were in the Army you would be a Lance Cpl."
"If I was in the Army sir, I'd be at least a Captain! I have a BSC & PHD!"
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Re: Quick Question

#11 Post by ian16th » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:49 am

And a true one about saluting.

At Transport Command HQ Unit, RAF Uphavon, Air Marshal Sir Andrew 'Square' McKee was AOC.

Square McKee was taking a constitutional walk back to his office after lunch in the OM.
An airman, in a daydream, walks past him without saluting.
Square calls out the time honoured 'Airman! Come here!' and the airman wakes up and realises what he has done and stands trembling at attention in front of Square.
Square asks, "Why didn't you salute?" and the trembling erk admits that he hadn't seen him.

Squares response was, "I believe you lad, don't do it again, and NEVER do it to a Pilot Officer!"
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Sisemen

Re: Quick Question

#12 Post by Sisemen » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:19 am

Now there’s a thing....my last MQ was at Benson, 3, McKee Square!

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Re: Quick Question

#13 Post by ian16th » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:26 am

Sisemen wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:19 am
Now there’s a thing....my last MQ was at Benson, 3, McKee Square!
Obviously couldn't call it McKee Place!

Someone had a sense of humour and a sense of history!

Look him up, he had quite a time between the wars, including evacuating Kabul with biplanes!
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Re: Quick Question

#14 Post by fin » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:18 pm

A young US Army Lt reporting in to his new base in Calif took (perfectly legitimate) exception to a very sloppy salute rendered by a pfc wandering by on his lunch break. The two of them then spent 1/4 practicing salutes (NOT a mutual decision apparently) and probably as a result, the poor Lt was at the Red Cross looking for loans the next two months, as his pay records somehow got sent to Korea. Too late he was advised who the sloppy, nonchalant enlisted people in that area worked for.

Different question, if anyone knows. Several of the larger police jurisdictions on LI have fleets of helicopters. Last night, one such was engaged in pursuit of a fleeing felon (at 120 mph) westbound when I fell asleep. They are manned by two pilots, so I suppose one of them works the police radio and the other ATC.

The question is...if they are entering the class B, even at four hundred feet or so, following the west bound fugitive, do they declare an emergency, or merely announce their intentions, or can they be actually forced to terminate their pursuit?
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Re: Quick Question

#15 Post by G~Man » Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:34 pm

fin wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:18 pm
Different question, if anyone knows. Several of the larger police jurisdictions on LI have fleets of helicopters. Last night, one such was engaged in pursuit of a fleeing felon (at 120 mph) westbound when I fell asleep. They are manned by two pilots, so I suppose one of them works the police radio and the other ATC.

The question is...if they are entering the class B, even at four hundred feet or so, following the west bound fugitive, do they declare an emergency, or merely announce their intentions, or can they be actually forced to terminate their pursuit?
Not sure where "LI" is, but I flew for a Sheriff Department in the San Francisco Bay Area many years ago. All "professional" pilots in the area were signatory to an ATC letter of agreement and were issued our own callsign, typically we would be given priority handling and allowed entry.

I now do wild fires and when en-route to, or working a fire we squawk 1255 which gets us priority handling. If requested to do so, we would later have to provide evidence to ATC that we were actually "working" and not cheating the system.

As for the original question, it is currently 103F at KRDD right now and forecast to get to 107F by the end of the week.... Kind of fun watching the fire tankers, (DC-10's, C-130's S-2's), get airborne full of retardant.
B-) Life may not be the party you hoped for, but while you're here, you may as well dance. B-)

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Re: Quick Question

#16 Post by Pontius Navigator » Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:34 pm

Similar to Ian's smile.

AOC 1 Gp, AVM Stapleton had just arrived at Cottesmore Ops in his staff car when Alf Price, then a flt lt, wandering past recognized him as someone he knew and gave a friendly wave. The AOC waved back.

Alf had recently published Instruments of Darkness. He was later Dr Alf Price.

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Re: Quick Question

#17 Post by fin » Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:16 pm

Thanks G Man. LI = Long Island, NY. Contains counties of Kings, Queens, Nassau and Suffolk. The latter two probably have a half dozen helicopters between them.
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Re: Quick Question

#18 Post by ricardian » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:15 am

A story involving RAF aerial erectors:
During a show at the Royal Tournament at Earls Court in London many years ago, one of the displays was a no command drill display by the Queens Colour Squadron of the Royal Air Force. As they march into the arena all the lights are out, the airmen with weapons are at port arms, as they enter the arena they fire blanks into the air, then the lights come on and commence the display. Apparently one of the aerial erectors was in the rafters with a dead duck (bought from some butchers in London still clothed in its feathers), when the lights came on, the dead duck was dropped into the arena. The sight of the duck and howls of laughter from the audience threw the colour Squadron completely off their display. From what I heard the Officer I/C the Queens Colour Squadron had to be physically restrained from attacking the riggers.
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