Airline Pilot Training

[Ex-Ascot]

Unfortunately, Fox, as you may have gathered here, they rarely have enough experience to question anything - nowadays it is not a question of undue 'deference' but undue 'experience'. The whole system needs a serious overhaul and airlines should be forced to introduce regular 'on-line' training for these folk if the system is to persist. Having (sometimes limited experience) Captains flying with very limited experience F/Os who are basically button pushers/lever movers is far from ideal.

And, without a Flt Eng The whole thing is a recipe for disaster. The Capt will be working like a one armed paper hanger. There will be more accidents and people will die because of all this.

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

The airliner accident rate is now below the threshold that bothers most people. As advances in aircraft, air traffic, meteorology and navigation have reduced their contribution to accidents, the airlines have been able to reduce the levels of skill and experience of the aircrew, as well as their numbers, whilst still keeping the accident rate below the threshold. It is debatable where this threshold is, but judging from air passenger miles flown and airline profitability, the current rate is below it. So, whilst we all know that air travel could be even safer if the likes of us were still flying, it would be more expensive. The public appears unwilling to pay for the extra safety. I don't see anyone starting up an airline with better pilots who are guaranteed a decent night's sleep, and advertising that. As for myself, I avoid flying other than with a better airline in a known reliable aircraft on nice days in the daytime, and have done for 20 years. I will night fly in Canada. I flew Air India once 12 years ago as it was the only flight available for 3 days, I had a critical meeting to attend, and I figured they would probably have their best crew on a jumbo into Heathrow, and it was a nice day.

[llondel]

If workload permits, you don't question it, you just ask for an explanation so you can learn from it. Sometimes that's what it takes for the chap with the knowledge to realise he's missed something.

[Woody]

You’ll never guess which airline has discussed at a very senior level outsourcing Flight Crew training

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

Well, what isn't outsourced to the industrial wasteland on the edge of a Tier 2 city in China these days?
The instruction manuals should be a laugh, based on the one I've just read for my new air conditioner.

[Boac]

I assume like the last computer 'crash' in BA Ops this one took out the Flight Planning links for stations, so no-one would be able to get a PLOG for a flight, even if they got the passengers!

Also unless any particular BA pilot had been press-ganged in from a real airline, BA pilots were not trained to look at wind charts and work out their own fuel uplifts. Even the press-gangees were strictly forbidden to do such an outrageous thing. So we all used to just sit around.

[Pontius Navigator]

One Cat check I was presented with a chart and some Met and asked what level I would pick to return to base. The no brain SOP answer was 390. If that was the answer sought it was a stupid question. I examined the charts and selected 180. ????

I explained quicker time to cruise level with lower fuel burn. No head wind component at the lower level. Saved climb fuel, shorter flight time compensated for higher cruise fuel burn.

Next day, having run through my snap answer with his whiz wheel and ODM admitted I was correct.

[Pontius Navigator]

May I be permitted a war story. It is a real story but how true I don't know and forgive me for any errors.

It concerns a bomber raid and this particular Lancaster had reached it target but for some reason had insufficient fuel that it could not return on the pre briefed return route.

The navigator realised the headwinds were stronger than forecast and worked out that the Low was North of the planned route. He replanned a course that took advantage of the tail winds and arrived back earlier than the other aircraft.

The crew was accused of cowardice having dropped their bombs in the North Sea and stooged around burning off fuel. They were threatened with Courts Martial, however the Command Nav at High Wycombe thought it might be true and checked the logs, charts, and met and concluded the nav had been telling the truth.

Fact or Fiction it proves a point about met charts.

[ExSp33db1rd]

I was told that I would never make a Navigator until I had been over Berlin with the shells coming through the cockpit whilst I directed the pilot to fly three headings 120 deg apart, so that I could I record three drift readings through the drift sight to work out the wind necesssary to plot the route home. I never had to, tho' my "first" aircraft did in fact have a drift sight fitted - fun to play with, but never needed in anger.

[Pontius Navigator]

Extraordinary how accurate a 3-drift wind exercise could be. We did a 'coastal ' exercise, 5 hours, no fixes, 3 drift wind every 20 minutes. Good backup when the Doppler went tits up.

[ian16th]

Can I post this link here?

It seem to this SLF to be relevant.

[Boac]

Paywalled

[ian16th]

Paywalled

Not a Paywall, you just have to register/subscibe.

[Boac]

OK, thanks - is there anything particularly interesting/new there?

[ian16th]

OK, thanks - is there anything particularly interesting/new there?

I don't think I am qualified to say.

I've followed this thread with interest and trepidation! And having this cross my screen today, I thought that it might be of interest to you Sky God's.

[Slasher]

I am right in thinking, because of the airline-specific bit, that all MCPL holders have effectively got their entire careers dependent on never saying anything but "Yes Sir!" to anything their airline or Captain asks of them?
I don't think I can fit a list of all the accidents caused by that within the word limit.

The kids are instilled with CRM as part of the overall initial course. Whether their other duties include washing the chief pilot's car or servicing his 50yo wife I wouldn't know. One thing I know for a fact certain Asian airlines adhere to "the captain is always right" in line ops actual practice, like a silent rule.

IIRC it took a good 5 years for Flight Safety to stamp out that sh!t from KAL. Hence its lack of prangs for the past few years.

[llondel]

I am right in thinking, because of the airline-specific bit, that all MCPL holders have effectively got their entire careers dependent on never saying anything but "Yes Sir!" to anything their airline or Captain asks of them?
I don't think I can fit a list of all the accidents caused by that within the word limit.

The kids are instilled with CRM as part of the overall initial course. Whether their other duties include washing the chief pilot's car or servicing his 50yo wife I wouldn't know. One thing I know for a fact certain Asian airlines adhere to "the captain is always right" in line ops actual practice, like a silent rule.

IIRC it took a good 5 years for Flight Safety to stamp out that sh!t from KAL. Hence its lack of prangs for the past few years.

This is why I avoid certain airlines, I perceive them to be less safe because of the hierarchical gradient at the front.

[Slasher]

This is why I avoid certain airlines, I perceive them to be less safe because of the hierarchical gradient at the front.

A good place to start is with the lists of banned airlines from Europe and USA. If any single airlines show up on both, one should never ever travel on them. For bannings limited to one list - use with extreme caution and then only as a last resort if one cannot take a train truck or barge instead.

[llondel]

I even have Air France on my list, they might have improved recently but their accident rate was well above the average for Western airlines.

[barkingmad]

The punchline to this sketch is where Frank turns to the testing officer and reminds him Frank’s parents can stump up the £100,000+ required for his training?



And the rest is recent history, sad though it may be?

I know the uniforms are supposed to be RAF but the principle still applies!