Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

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ian16th
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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#221 Post by ian16th » Fri May 01, 2020 11:56 am

Capetonian wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 9:15 am
Personally I would like to see more spacing at airports, and on aircraft, fares go up, and the bottom end of the market eliminated, to make travel a more civilised and enjoyable affair.
The purpose of an airlines existence is simply to make money!

Creating 'joy' isn't on the agenda.
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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#222 Post by Woody » Fri May 01, 2020 12:29 pm

ian16th wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 11:56 am
Capetonian wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 9:15 am
Personally I would like to see more spacing at airports, and on aircraft, fares go up, and the bottom end of the market eliminated, to make travel a more civilised and enjoyable affair.
The purpose of an airlines existence is simply to make money for shareholders!

Creating 'joy' isn't on the agenda.
Fixed it for you :ymdevil:
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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#223 Post by ian16th » Fri May 01, 2020 1:48 pm

Often not true.

The original owners that float the company, but keep control, often make money but the muggs shareholders don't.
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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#224 Post by G-CPTN » Fri May 01, 2020 2:05 pm

So the airline also fails on that account?

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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#225 Post by Woody » Fri May 01, 2020 4:36 pm

Found this on book of faces :-o
This was passed on to me. I think it applies to all members of staff who are all part of the BA team

My husband is a senior British Airways captain with over 30 loyal, devoted years of service with the airline.
Middle class, solidly Home Counties, and precisely the person whose gentle tones you long to hear upon boarding a British Airways aircraft at the end of an arduous business trip in some moth-eaten corner of the world.
As soon as his mellow, Radio 2 voice, and his “Good evening and ladies and gentlemen “ welcome aboard announcement comes across the PA system, you feel safe and warm, cocooned in the knowledge that for the next however many hours, you are secure in the hands of a consummate professional and his crew.
Your subconscious immediately tries to picture him: a man in his late forties or early fifties, who, at the end of the flight, will no doubt fire up his trusty Volvo estate and drive home to his wife, 2.4 children, and ageing labrador or golden retriever.
You might even meet him for a pint in the village local that evening.

You recline into your premium cabin seat, order a G&T, and in your head at least, you’re already back in Blighty as the careworn palm trees whip past your window and the plane rolls along the runway on its takeoff path.
That’s my old man, the quintessential BA skipper.
Slice him in half, and you’ll discover the BA logo running through him like a stick of Brighton rock.
I cannot begin to list how many times he has gone above and beyond for his colleagues, passengers and employer.
Always the first to board, and the last to disembark, regardless of how exhausted he might be.
A passenger in need of assistance? He’s there like a shot.
A late wheelchair on arrival back at base? He’ll send everyone home and stay with the passenger until one eventually turns up, which these days can sometimes be an hour or more, not the ideal conclusion to a long night flight.
Crew member taken ill down route? He’ll accompany them to hospital and keep in regular contact until he’s satisfied that they’re ok and all relevant parties have been notified.
Duty. Honour. Responsibility. Decency. Solid British Airways characteristics, or at least they used to be.
BA is his life, and in spite of me telling him for years that his spaniel-like fidelity would always go unrecognised (how right I was), he has stubbornly put his unswerving duty to “The Company” ahead of any other commitments to family or friends.
Now we fear the worst, and fully expect that Messrs Walsh and Cruz will stab him in the back in grateful recognition of his many years of blind loyalty.
COVID-19 is manna from heaven for IAG and the BA board: an opportunity for the company to divest itself of those employees who still enjoy the relative luxury of a half-decent contract and working conditions.
Make no mistake. Henceforth, ALL British Airways employees will be working on minimum salary contracts, with little job security and the cheapest and worst working conditions legally allowable.
“Don’t like it, Captain X? Shove off and we’ll have you replaced within a month...”
Fills one with pride to Fly the Flag, does it not?
BA has the cash reserves to come to a better and infinitely more humane solution than to sack 12,000 employees who would, I am in no doubt, be prepared to work for a reduced salary, thereby reducing costs and meeting the shortfall by sharing out the workload.
The snag with that plan, however, is that IAG, WIllie Walsh and Alex Cruz would lose this never-to-be-repeated-once-in-a-lifetime opportunity which offers them the chance to get rid of their more expensive employees under the cover of crisis.
It’s a gift horse not to be ignored.
Equally, for BA to accept a very cheap government loan would open the door for Virgin, it’s most bitter of rivals, to do the same, thereby giving it the opportunity to find possible salvation.
Walsh and Cruz have therefore concluded that, rather than give their UK opponents any chance of survival, it is preferable to throw their most loyal people to the wolves, and then replace them in a few years with far cheaper labour.
Two birds with one stone. Job done. Management bonuses and Veuve Clique all round.
And there, in a nutshell, is the brutal reality of the “we’ll come out of this a better society”, post-COVID world.
Gone are the gentlemanly days of Lords King and Marshall, who took it upon themselves to actually give a damn about their employees, and who, in return, were admired and respected by the workforce.
Today it is the Wolves of Harmondsworth in charge; they have scented blood and are going in for the kill.
Far from emerging from COVID into a kinder, more understanding place, we will discover that the vultures and hyenas who run our biggest companies will use today’s climate to slice, dice, and butcher their best people in the manner of the most brutal Wuhan wet market.
If you thought things became cutthroat after 2008-9, you ain’t seen nothing yet.
Bottom dollar business, to hell with humanity, and let’s screw whoever we can, (as we have for many years), only now, we have the perfect excuse.
Morals? Decency? Respect?
Only if there’s a profit to be made.
I leave it to you to decide whether that is a reality which you wish to inhabit.
Or a flag you wish to fly.
We’ll take more care of you? Judge for yourself.”
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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#226 Post by AtomKraft » Fri May 01, 2020 5:13 pm

People who fly with BA as passengers think they are jolly nice.

Those who've worked for them know, that's not the whole story.

I think I'd better leave it at that, as I'm on my second beer.....

Shitbags run that company.

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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#227 Post by Woody » Fri May 01, 2020 7:32 pm

Sorry about the long quotes but I think that you would like to be kept informed ^:)^
Dear Unite Member,
Update – What’s happening now?
The decision by British Airways to simultaneously announce their redundancy plans, to the press and their own staff at exactly the same time, was a calculated decision. With the sole intention of shaping both the media coverage around the story and the context for any subsequent “consultation” over their plans. Specifically, to condition staff that there will be job losses and that those “lucky enough to keep their job”, should do so on reduced terms and conditions.
Given that we are in the middle of a National crisis, a Government led Job Retention Scheme and an agreed Redundancy Mitigation Programme, Unite has challenged both the legality and morality, of the announcement made by British Airways. Effectively making 12,000 staff redundant and to also make any remaining staff redundant, re-employing them on inferior pay, terms and conditions.
How and why are we doing this?
Unite have written to both HM Government and have reserved our right to refer BA’s furlough requests to HMRC, to question the legality of these actions and a potential misuse of public funds and will use all of the political contacts at our disposal to hold them to account.
Will this be successful? We don’t know. But we must at the very least try. The legislation around the Governments scheme is untested, as is the Governments intent and out of necessity we must be the first to do so before entering into discussions, where the outcome is unavoidably bleak for so many people.
These are difficult times, no one doubts that but BA’s actions go way beyond what is necessary and even the steps being taken by other airlines, amounting to little more than an obvious attempt to take advantage of a public health crisis, to drive through a wish list of change for greater future profit.

If you have read all of BA’s letters to Unite and employees, setting out their proposals in each area, you may have observed one glaring omission. At no point in any letter, is there a single expression of gratitude or acknowledgement for the contribution made by staff in building a successful airline. An airline that declared a profit of £1.92 billion just a few short months ago, nor the vaguest apology, let alone empathy, for the devastating impact the measures they wish to introduce, will have upon thousands of families’ lives.
Ironically, the IAG group has applied for and accepted a Government aid package (worth €1bn) from the Spanish Government for Iberia, and have honoured their redundancy mitigation agreement with their unions. Yet British Airways has refused to join with Unite to work with the UK Government in requesting similar aid, not because it is not available, but because their preferred option is that no UK airlines receive aid packages and thereby some will go out of business.
BA alone survives, profits from their UK rivals demise but with the added bonus of a much lower cost base, generating even greater profit.
It’s no more complicated than that.
This may well sound an attractive business model for shareholders and executive bonuses, the only flaw in the plan for you as an employee, is that you are paying the cost of them doing so with either your job or your terms and conditions
Full Details of the legal challenge, may be found here (Click to View)
There is also a lot more work on building our Unite campaign, which will involve political and
industrial campaigns as well, and we’ll also keep you updated on these.
In the meantime, here are ten things BA ‘forgot” to mention in their press release but is contained within the detailed letters sent to Unite and published to you yesterday.
1. BA intent to make 12000 staff redundant across the whole airline, with the figures for our areas outlined below:

2. British Airways have already stated that they intend to begin making remaining employees redundant from the 15th June onwards and offer new inferior contracts to those they believe to be suitable.
3. Anyone made redundant will be forced to leave employment on statutory redundancy pay, rather than a severance package. This is often a third of the value of severance.
4. If you are deemed “suitable” to be re-employed, all your current pay, agreements, terms and conditions, and even the employment policies that cover you, will become null and void. If you do not accept these changes, you will be immediately dismissed.
5. BA have stated they will begin to do so 43 days from now.
6. Despite being part of the ongoing government funded Job Retention Scheme, BA have decided that they will not ‘retain’ staff during the operation of the scheme. Members will be made redundant on 15th June. Only some will be reemployed.
7. Iberia state aid is set to be €1bn, with the purchase of Air Europa still on track
8. BA has £3bn cash available and IAG has credit lines of €10.7bn
9. BA is one of the most capitalised airlines in Europe just after Ryanair and Wizz
10. BA could survive for over a year with all of its fleet grounded
Lastly, please find below a link to Unite’s General Secretary, Len McCuskey’s interview on the BBC 1 last night.
As always, thank you for your support. It may feel like the darkest hour, but be assured that your union is with you and will remain with you. The actions of companies in the worst of times will not be forgotten, by either staff or customers, when the best of times return. When that happens, employers that sought to take advantage in the short-term may find that they end up paying a far higher price than they ever imagined in the long-term.
In solidarity
Howard Beckett
Assistant General Secretary
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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#228 Post by G-CPTN » Fri May 01, 2020 7:42 pm

My daughter-in-law (an actuary) has been working from home during the Corona scare but has now been told that staff must take a 20% pay cut.

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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#229 Post by llondel » Fri May 01, 2020 7:59 pm

Re the BA stuff, unless employment law has been modified/suspended, I'm not sure they can make more than 99 people redundant without a 3-month consultation period. However, BALPA and the other unions involved will know more about that than me.

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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#230 Post by G-CPTN » Sat May 02, 2020 2:57 pm


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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#231 Post by Undried Plum » Sat May 02, 2020 9:16 pm


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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#232 Post by Boac » Mon May 04, 2020 3:44 pm

KLM begin flights to European destinations today.

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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#233 Post by barkingmad » Mon May 04, 2020 6:11 pm

Ooooh dear!! But of course AirChance employees will have high-vis vests/tabards so they can whizz off to join Les Gilets Jaunes at short notice and help the Frog guvvment in their decisionmaking process?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52527517

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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#234 Post by Woody » Mon May 04, 2020 7:15 pm

Can’t see many Tories on the list 🤮

https://edm.parliament.uk/early-day-mot ... N86iZwSc74
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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#235 Post by Boac » Mon May 04, 2020 7:22 pm

They obviously all have BA shares?

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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#236 Post by Boac » Tue May 05, 2020 1:04 pm

According to Sky, Virgin are pulling out of Gatwick and also shedding 1/3 of staff.

SNAP! Woody :)) I see your BBC and raise you a Sky.

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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#237 Post by ian16th » Tue May 05, 2020 1:56 pm

The toll is ongoing.

This unfortunately might be used as a excuse to pour tax payers money into a resurrected SAA.
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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#238 Post by barkingmad » Wed May 06, 2020 7:05 am

Is it possible that the current game of “give us some dosh or we’ll run away from Gatwick and cosy up at Thiefrow,” being played by VA and BA, is designed to justify the new turd runway at the so-called favourite airport at Hounslow.
With the predicted contraction of the aviation industry it would appear that BoJo’s least favourite runway option might need protection from scrappage so abandoning Gatwick might be a devious option to keep the “requirement” for another prestige project to add to the H2S money pit.
Despite Gatwick being a much easier and nicer airport through which to operate and transit, the sacred cow of Thiefrow must not be imperilled despite industry contraction so any means available will be used to protect it.
It’s not my theory but was mentioned to me by a friend who observes from outside the industry and who became suspicious on hearing the big players’ moving plans so I air it here for discussion.

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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#239 Post by Ibbie » Thu May 07, 2020 2:50 pm

BA Citiflyer have positioned at least four E190s from storage at Norwich, back to London City this afternoon.

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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#240 Post by Woody » Thu May 07, 2020 3:18 pm

When all else fails, read the instructions.

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