Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

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Woody
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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#341 Post by Woody » Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:22 am

They’re obviously busy trying to sack everyone, so couldn’t make it X(
Britain's biggest airline, British Airways, has refused to attend a meeting with Home Secretary Priti Patel on Thursday to discuss the UK's quarantine plans.
From 8 June the government will require all travellers to the UK to quarantine for 14 days or face a £1,000 fine.
But BA, which is under huge financial strain due to the pandemic, has called it "another blow to our industry".
Owner IAG did not give a reason for not attending and declined further comment.
However, the operator is understood to be annoyed at what it saw as a lack of consultation over the quarantine's introduction.
The BBC has asked the Home Office for comment.
EasyJet and Virgin Atlantic, as well as the owner of Heathrow Airport, were among the aviation businesses that attended the telephone meeting with Ms Patel and junior aviation minister Kelly Tolhurst.
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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#342 Post by Ibbie » Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:20 am

...and there's more:Walsh considering legal action against Government over quarantine

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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#343 Post by Woody » Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:16 pm

Another Tory MP comments :-bd
Commons Sense: Joy Morrissey - 'I’m doing all I can to defend British Airways staff'
Joy Morrissey
12:35PM, Friday 05 June 2020

Commons Sense: Joy Morrissey - 'I’m doing all I can to defend British Airways staff'
As we continue to move out of lockdown and ease restrictions, we must ensure that the workers who have selflessly seen us through the worst of this crisis continue to receive the support they need and deserve. That is why this week I have been focusing my attention on the situation surrounding British Airways employees.

As the situation has dragged on I continue to be dismayed and disappointed by the behaviour of British Airways. Their proposals to make 12,000 employees redundant will have a profound impact upon staff who have done so much for their country through repatriation flights and returning stranded Britons home.

Additionally, for a company with such substantial financial reserves, this decision seems totally unnecessary. Whilst it would be wrong for the Government to directly interfere with the operations of a private business, I would urge BA to not prematurely end the consultation over job cuts, and instead wait until after summer once we get a better idea of what the long term picture of aviation will look like.

Throughout the crisis BA has made substantial use of the Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme. The purpose behind this scheme was to allow employers to retain employees in an unpredictable climate. Now that we know more and can begin to plan for life to resume after lockdown, it seems wrong that BA has utilised this government assistance to simultaneously enforce changes to employees’ terms of service.

One could therefore be forgiven to think that BA is taking advantage of the pandemic to strengthen its financial position to the detriment of its hardworking and faithful employees. This can be made all the more apparent by the fact that the furlough scheme has been extended by the Chancellor to October, giving BA no excuse for imposing these unfair changes to their staff. Employees are left with a choice of finding themselves redundant or having a job with a severe pay cut.

So far, I have held meetings with BA employees, fellow like-minded MPs from across the House of Commons, the relevant ministers, and I have asked an urgent question in the Chamber.

I sincerely hope that BA listens to their employees, local leaders, MPs and the Government, and pledges to secure the security and livelihoods of their staff.
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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#344 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:10 pm

Personally I have to agree with any of the airlines in their view of the government's quarantine plans which are misbegotten and simply part of HMG's, "make it up on the fly, must be seen to be doing something, this is something playbook!"

I would like to see BA and other players weather this storm for all our sakes, so it is sad to see how badly off beam BA is with respect to their treatment of their staff in all of this.

Shame on BA/IAG, shame on the government too.
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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#345 Post by Undried Plum » Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:32 pm

Ibbie wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:20 am
...and there's more:Walsh considering legal action against Government over quarantine

So funny to see him bleating that the gumment hasn't 'consulted with' the airlines.

Would he have sent a BA rep to such a consultation? [-(

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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#346 Post by Woody » Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:30 pm

So funny to see him bleating that the gumment hasn't 'consulted with' the airlines.

Would he have sent a BA rep to such a consultation? [-(
It’s on his terms or nothing :((
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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#347 Post by Woody » Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:10 pm

BALPA’ s negotiations haven’t gone so well X(
6th June 2020
Dear colleagues,
Update to S188 letter
We regret to have to report that on Wednesday evening British Airways issued BALPA with a further Section 188 notice.
BA advise us that as a result of their revised fleet plan the new notice has increased the proposed number of pilot jobs under threat from 955 pilots to 1080. This excludes the 175 jobs under threat as a result of the company’s efficiency targets.
BA’s intention to seek changes to terms and conditions is restated in the updated S188. However, crucially it states that if BA and BALPA are unable to reach an agreement, the company would seek to force changes by terminating the employment of all pilots and offering individuals new contracts with associated new terms and conditions. We cannot begin to describe the level of disappointment and annoyance this has caused.
BALPA has been engaging in good faith with BA in the interests of our members, as you would expect. The BACC believe this is an extraordinarily damaging position for the company to take with their pilots but it will not cause us to lose our focus on our stated objectives of job protection and quality of the job.

BALPA has made it clear to BA that talks are at a critical juncture and we do not accept their termination and re-engagement statement. The company has repeatedly made the point to politicians and the media that BALPA are at the table and negotiating and it will consult in good faith with a genuine view to reaching agreement. At this stage, we will continue to engage with BA to navigate our way through the current crisis and attempt to secure the best possible outcome for our members.
To be clear, the new S188 activates a new minimum 45 day period before the first of the additional proposed number of dismissals can be actioned (18th July) and the termination and re-engagement clause can be activated. The original S188 time period of minimum 45 day consultation period (15th June) remains in place.
We know the new S188 will be alarming news for members and it would be wrong of us to not notify you of the information we have been presented with. However, we have your health and welfare at heart when we say once you have read this newsletter, take time to reflect and let us take your strain, we are genuinely working hard to make the right decisions. We know this newsletter will raise more questions so please email BACCcovid19@balpa.org
If you have any health and welfare concerns then please send those to BAIMS@balpa.org
Ongoing work and consultation update
The BACC has spent the week in discussions with BA in order to minimise the proposed number of redundancies as well as talks regarding a compulsory redundancy selection criteria.
Our discussions have included:
1. Furlough and the Government Job Retention Scheme (JRS)
Recently, the government changed the JRS arrangements, meaning that to be able to access this scheme between now and the end of the scheme, pilots would have to be registered on JRS by the 10th June. BA and BALPA have conducted further investigation into the scheme and discussed the possibility of BA pilots being furloughed from 9th June.
Furloughed pilots would mainly come from the A380, B747, A320 LGW as well as some A320 LHR because these are the fleets which are currently experiencing little or no flying. Additionally, we will be emailing a link to a preference form to express an interest to be furloughed. This should be of value to those interested in External Opportunities and pilots who vulnerable or shielding family members. A separate email will follow with a link to the preference form. In June there will be no impact on previously agreed pay arrangements but the savings generated would be used to help protect jobs. Arrangements from July onwards remain subject to negotiation.

2. Voluntary Redundancies
This is fundamental to reducing the surplus and a lot of effort over the past few weeks has been directed towards this. BA has now indicated that they are close to being able to offer an enhanced VR package. Discussions are ongoing and we will communicate further when the options are finalised and the terms of the enhanced VR package can be published.
3. External Opportunities
We have reached agreement with BA on the terms and arrangements for pilots electing to explore opportunities outside of BA including protections around seniority, pay points on return and how pilots will be managed back into the business. There are two schemes available, the difference being the length of leave available:
Armed Forces Support Scheme (AFSS) - Between 1 month and 5 years. We will issue further details and a FAN will also follow.
Flight Crew BRS (BRS) - Between 1 month and 12 months. We will issue further details and a FAN will follow.
We are aware that there may be opportunities outside of BA that require a minimum engagement period beyond 12 months. If you secure such a position, please submit a request to your line manager and copy in BALPA.
The RAF has been processing the expressions of interest list; the first wave of pilots shortlisted have been contacted already. Now that the terms of the scheme have been agreed, those pilots can expect to be contacted imminently confirming the terms of the scheme. The process of matching other pilots to positions will continue should more opportunities become available.
Applications for the Flight Crew BRS will be invited via FAN shortly. Please send a copy of your application to BALPA using BACCcovid19@balpa.org using subject “Flight Crew BRS”.
We continue to pressure test the company’s fleet plans and manpower proposals which we understand are yet to be finalised. However, with the increased number of pilots at risk it is now looking like we may have to accept as a community that some compulsory redundancies (CR) may be unavoidable.
As members will be aware, BALPA’s clear position has always been that we expect our terms and conditions to be respected and adhered to. We have, throughout the years, robustly defended our MOA which contains the majority of those terms and conditions for all pilots. Schedule K is a regularly referenced section of the MOA and contains the general principle of LIFO but of course we have always worked on the basis that we would never have to deploy this by mitigating through voluntary measures, as we did in 2009.

However, given where we now are, our focus has turned to what a fair and objective selection criteria could look like applied to a global pool (regardless of base, seat or fleet). LIFO works on the basis of length of service and all those who may be impacted by it are at the forefront of our efforts. We are working hard to fight for protections for those facing CR through various means, including a right to return to BA employment before any recruitment takes place in the future.
In the meantime, we ask for your support and continued collective resolve. For those of you considering taking voluntary options, you should know that every opportunity taken up is a job saved, and the entire community owes you gratitude. The strength of our community and willingness to act together to support each other will be key to successfully navigating this process.
As previously stated, we will consult the members on any final agreement.
BALPA Forum
This is a hugely stressful time for all our members. Therefore, we have considered the BALPA forum and decided to leave it open at this time. The intention is to ensure the forum remains a ‘safe place’ for members to engage during these difficult times. For those of you that regularly post, we ask that you think and re-read your post before hitting submit. This is a worrying time and we ask for some awareness of how your post may affect those finding the current situation increasingly stressful.
Any abusive or aggressive posts will not be tolerated. We would also like to remind members to abide by the forum rules, and not to discuss any suggestions or bottom lines relating to the ongoing consultation.
Best regards BACC
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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#348 Post by Ibbie » Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:53 am


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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#349 Post by Woody » Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:42 am

When all else fails, read the instructions.

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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#350 Post by Woody » Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:36 pm

When all else fails, read the instructions.

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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#351 Post by Woody » Wed Jun 10, 2020 11:28 am

Temporary measures proposed by Aer Lingus X(

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland ... 2?mode=amp
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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#352 Post by Ibbie » Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:42 am


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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#353 Post by Undried Plum » Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:47 am

People who haven't got work to do haven't got a job of work to do. Therefore they haven't got a job.

To expect to have a 'job' without doing any work, or having any work to do, is not a reasonable demand.

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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#354 Post by ian16th » Thu Jun 11, 2020 12:20 pm

Undried Plum wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:47 am
People who haven't got work to do haven't got a job of work to do. Therefore they haven't got a job.

To expect to have a 'job' without doing any work, or having any work to do, is not a reasonable demand.
There are a lot of people being paid 'just in case' they are needed.

The best examples are probably the worlds Fire Brigades.
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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#355 Post by G-CPTN » Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:03 pm

I had a chat today with a couple of ambulance drivers parked up on standby, and we agreed that it was best if they had nothing to do . . .

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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#356 Post by Undried Plum » Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:54 pm

ian16th wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 12:20 pm
Undried Plum wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:47 am
People who haven't got work to do haven't got a job of work to do. Therefore they haven't got a job.

To expect to have a 'job' without doing any work, or having any work to do, is not a reasonable demand.
There are a lot of people being paid 'just in case' they are needed.

The best examples are probably the worlds Fire Brigades.

We have airtaxi drivers, and a few miniature hosties, 'just in case they are needed', for their role. Not at all comparable to firemen.

Scheduled Air Transport is a whole nuther category.

It's the Part 121 (etc) (AOC Class 7 in old-fashioned English-speak) guys and gals who are buggered by the reality that they just ain't needed no more.

So sorry, but 'tis true.

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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#357 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:39 pm

ian16th wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 12:20 pm
Undried Plum wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:47 am
People who haven't got work to do haven't got a job of work to do. Therefore they haven't got a job.

To expect to have a 'job' without doing any work, or having any work to do, is not a reasonable demand.
There are a lot of people being paid 'just in case' they are needed.

The best examples are probably the worlds Fire Brigades.

Like insurers and lawyers...
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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#358 Post by ian16th » Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:44 pm

TheGreenGoblin wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:39 pm
ian16th wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 12:20 pm
Undried Plum wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:47 am
People who haven't got work to do haven't got a job of work to do. Therefore they haven't got a job.

To expect to have a 'job' without doing any work, or having any work to do, is not a reasonable demand.
There are a lot of people being paid 'just in case' they are needed.

The best examples are probably the worlds Fire Brigades.

Like insurers and lawyers...
I'm sure that you are aware that the 1st fire brigades were operated by the insurance companies.

They would only attend to your fire, if you were a paid up customer.
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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#359 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:59 pm

ian16th wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:44 pm
TheGreenGoblin wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:39 pm
ian16th wrote:
Thu Jun 11, 2020 12:20 pm


There are a lot of people being paid 'just in case' they are needed.

The best examples are probably the worlds Fire Brigades.

Like insurers and lawyers...
I'm sure that you are aware that the 1st fire brigades were operated by the insurance companies.

They would only attend to your fire, if you were a paid up customer.
Sadly, ian16th, I have fallen so low that I work in the insurance industry. May the Lord have mercy on my soul.
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Re: Impact of coronavirus on aviation industry.

#360 Post by Undried Plum » Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:42 pm

In the case of airlines, you may need to wait a hell of a long time to get your money back when their employees don't or won't want to work, or can't.

The BA bitches were probably the worst. You could almost depend on them to let the passengers down, usually at peak season.

The glory days of BEA and BOAC, when pilots and hosties were to be revered as skygods and skygoddesses, are over.

Get over it, boys and girls.

Welcome to the real world, ashore and aground.

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