Modern Transport going to the dogs.

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barkingmad
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Modern Transport going to the dogs.

#1 Post by barkingmad » Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:52 pm

Ye Gods, what is happening to mass public transport in the 21st century?!

Hot on the heels of augering 73Maxes, similar 767, we now have a cruise ship losing all propulsion in rough seas off the coast of Norway trying to drift towards the rocks.

And the cause apparently was low oil levels which were adequate for calm seas but not for rough weather!

Am I missing something or just going even more barking?!

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Re: Modern Transport going to the dogs.

#2 Post by ian16th » Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:24 pm

barkingmad wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:52 pm
Ye Gods, what is happening to mass public transport in the 21st century?!

Hot on the heels of augering 73Maxes, similar 767, we now have a cruise ship losing all propulsion in rough seas off the coast of Norway trying to drift towards the rocks.

And the cause apparently was low oil levels which were adequate for calm seas but not for rough weather!

Am I missing something or just going even more barking?!
What do they want the extra oil for?
To pour on troubled waters?
Cynicism improves with age

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Re: Modern Transport going to the dogs.

#3 Post by barkingmad » Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:29 pm

Mea culpa!! Badly worded explanation which is ambiguous.

The ship sailed with the engine oil 'dipsticks' (not the crew) not far above the minimum level. The rough seas encountered affected the lubricating oil levels sensed so IAW modern kit the engines shut themselves down 'cos they didn't like it.

Aaaah, progress, don'tya just lurv intelligent machinery? I don't suppose there was an oil level gauge anywhere in the bridge to engine room information loop. And this happened to FOUR propulsion units which l gather are called "pods".

:-s

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Re: Modern Transport going to the dogs.

#4 Post by llondel » Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:04 am

Sounds a bit like the emergency landing at Stansted due to low oil pressure on all four engines because someone forgot to put the drain plugs back in.

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Re: Modern Transport going to the dogs.

#5 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:19 am

Am I missing something or just going even more barking?!
Neither, the lists of idiocies grows daily.

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Re: Modern Transport going to the dogs.

#6 Post by Sisemen » Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:25 am

And if you've really got nothing else to do you can look at John Hill's video of trucks various doing lots of incredibly boring things which have little relevance to the title of his thread which he has had to keep going by replying to his own thread 'cos nobody else is going to. Or, you could watch some grass growing - personal choice.

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Re: Modern Transport going to the dogs.

#7 Post by Slasher » Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:18 am

Hill is on my ignore list so I haven't seen it anyway, but I'll take your word Sise and go with your suggested Grass Growing.

PS: they should make a dedicated cable channel devoted to it. I'd pay good money for its upkeep.

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Re: Modern Transport going to the dogs.

#8 Post by barkingmad » Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:11 pm

"Sounds a bit like the emergency landing at Stansted due to low oil pressure on all four engines because someone forgot to put the drain plugs back in."

And the Tristar which just made it onto land after the "O" rings were left off all 3 MCDs removed & replaced during maintenance.

And the 737-400 from East Midlands which nearly crashed due to access plates for N2 cranking on both donks being left off after o'night maintenance.

Following that accident both AB & Boeing recommended NOT performing routine maintenance tasks with a safety risk on 2/2, 3/3 and 4/4 engines.

Of course World's Favourite Airline ignored this and carried on regardless til they left bits of both engine cowlings spread over one runway at LHR, closing it, then landed on the other runway after approaching over London and closed that runway due to the resulting evacuation.

Is it necessary for all modern cost cutting airlines to employ boards of directors who suffer from Alzheimers disease or who are so badly aware of aviation accident history that they fail to see what's coming down the tracks to smack them and their hapless customers real hard?

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Re: Modern Transport going to the dogs.

#9 Post by barkingmad » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:36 am

www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/world/5-injured-i ... -1.4447935

And following the loss of all 4 propulsion pods on the cruise ship off Norway I think I'll bin the maritime brochures for the time being.

And then there was that diving ship losing 3/3 Dynamic Positioning computers and dragging the divers across the undersea structure.

And the Budapest accident with dozens missing or dead gives the impression our nautical colleagues need a shakeup?

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Re: Modern Transport going to the dogs.

#10 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:33 am

I have discovered I am not the only person around here who used to be a pilot/ship's officer/etc. We'd all rather retire, or do a local job where you don't get treated like sh!t, than work in the modern transport industry.

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Re: Modern Transport going to the dogs.

#11 Post by Pontius Navigator » Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:11 am

Fox3WheresMyBanana wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:33 am
We'd all rather retire, or do a local job where you don't get treated like sh!t, than work in the modern transport industry.
On P&O we have a hosted lunch with a ship's officer. Good food, good free wine, and a chance to talk with one of them for a couple of hours. One, ex-RN, said our group was the best lunch he had experienced and we were last to leave. Another time the other two couples moaned at the officer from start to finish; it was embarrassing.

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Re: Modern Transport going to the dogs.

#12 Post by Undried Plum » Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:51 am

It's not only the red duster guys who **** in a regular basis. Grey Funnel Lines do too.

That Noggie Aegis-Lite war canoe in Hjeltefjord **** up on a literally incomprehensible scale when it twatted a great big supertanker which was broadcasting on AIS and the appropriate Marine VHF channel and was a rather big paint on primary radar.

Then there's the Septics, but let's not go there.

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Re: Modern Transport going to the dogs.

#13 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:45 pm


a literally incomprehensible scale
You wouldn't understand, you're not a woman ;)))

Not that we know a woman was driving, but the way things are these days, we can probably read a lot into the Norwegian military refusing to answer any questions at all, and the Minister putting almost all the effort into finding out who leaked the 'tapes rather than how the accident happened.
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/ ... e-ingstad/


However, there may be US involvement. It appears there was a USN exchange officer on the bridge, and was possibly under instruction at the time. Note that all radio comms were in Norwegian.
https://cloverchronicle.com/2018/11/21/ ... th-tanker/

A polemic sceptic might suggest that it's all being hushed up as it was an American female under the instruction of a Norwegian female who was responsible. 4/5 of the navigation officers had been previously stated as female; the skipper was asleep (not unreasonably - I have taken a nap in those waters myself in a Service yacht, on the basis that a junior watch officer is perfectly capable of handling a big, wide, ridiculously deep channel that she's perfectly familiar with on a fine night..I mean, you'd have to be a total f#ckwit to crash there.....).

I should perhaps add that I left a female in charge whilst napping. My point is not against women, but against positive discrimination in any form when it involves dropping standards. And I would put money on that being what's going on here.
By the by, I'd love to know what the basis is for war canoes going AIS-dark in busy waters. It's not as if the flyboys go around with their transponders off.

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Re: Modern Transport going to the dogs.

#14 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:16 pm

I've taken a closer look at the video.
The Helge Ingstad stated they couldn't turn starboard because it would bring them too close to the daymarks - they have a kilometer laterally between their course and the daymarks. It was stated in post accident reports that the Ingstad crew thought the tanker was still docked. Even visually, the tanker has had separation from the shorelights of what I estimate to be at least 10 degrees for over a minute before the collision, so one has to question either the performance of the lookout or the use of that information. Clearly the OOW was unaware of, or completely failed to consider, both the AIS picture and the primary radar picture. This has remarkable similarities to the USS Fitzgerald accident. And in both cases, neither OOW thinks to slow down, which was Lesson One when I was being taught Col Regs.

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Re: Modern Transport going to the dogs.

#15 Post by Rwy in Sight » Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:38 am

Fox3WheresMyBanana wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:45 pm

You wouldn't understand, you're not a woman ;)))

Not that we know a woman was driving, but the way things are these days, we can probably read a lot into the Norwegian military refusing to answer any questions at all, and the Minister putting almost all the effort into finding out who leaked the 'tapes rather than how the accident happened.



However, there may be US involvement. It appears there was a USN exchange officer on the bridge, and was possibly under instruction at the time. Note that all radio comms were in Norwegian.


A polemic sceptic might suggest that it's all being hushed up as it was an American female under the instruction of a Norwegian female who was responsible. 4/5 of the navigation officers had been previously stated as female; the skipper was asleep (not unreasonably - I have taken a nap in those waters myself in a Service yacht, on the basis that a junior watch officer is perfectly capable of handling a big, wide, ridiculously deep channel that she's perfectly familiar with on a fine night..I mean, you'd have to be a total f#ckwit to crash there.....).


By the by, I'd love to know what the basis is for war canoes going AIS-dark in busy waters. It's not as if the flyboys go around with their transponders off.

For the last part (about moving around sans AIS/transpoder. The supposedly experienced Greek Navy managed to do a vessel and seriously damaged another in similar circumstances. The first one back n 1996 just off the coast of Samos, the military vessel st(r)ayed on an official shipping lane with all lights off during an exercised and it was rammed by a pax ferry which was accused of trying to cut short a route between two ports. As the Kostakos was participating on a military exercise the Navy argued that lights off were necessary for running a realistic scenario.

The second one involved a frigate that run into some rocks as it entered the main navy station in Attica. Rumours have it that the navigation officer was female. It seems that mistakes are easy to make and maybe Navies are not aware on how dangerous and expensive it can be. I am proud to report that for instance Greek Air Force after a series of CFIT has zero such accidents in the last few years.

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Re: Modern Transport going to the dogs.

#16 Post by Capetonian » Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:08 am

I think it's made worse by larger numbers of people travelling, low fares leading to low standards as costs are cut, cheap labour, minimum rest and turn round times, competitive pressures, and greed.

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Re: Modern Transport going to the dogs.

#17 Post by Pontius Navigator » Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:16 am

I am proud to report that for instance Greek Air Force after a series of CFIT has zero such accidents in the last few years.
There could be many reasons for this:

Running out of aircraft.
Running out of suicidal pilots.
Switch to female pilots.

Just joking. Seriously though, fewer and better aircraft with greater supervision and better selection and training are probably the answer.

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Re: Modern Transport going to the dogs.

#18 Post by Rwy in Sight » Sat Jun 08, 2019 4:45 pm

Pontius Navigator wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:16 am
I am proud to report that for instance Greek Air Force after a series of CFIT has zero such accidents in the last few years.
There could be many reasons for this:

Running out of aircraft.
Running out of suicidal pilots.
Switch to female pilots.

Just joking. Seriously though, fewer and better aircraft with greater supervision and better selection and training are probably the answer.

I don't have the numbers about aircraft availability but it seems they fly less ( kindly refrain comments about the country's financial situation). They did take on some female pilots but I am not sure they were let to flight fast jets. About the remaining of the post it seems you are spot on as argued by a fast jet pilot in his mid 30's. Although the last aircraft loss was due to a pilot failing to smoothly transit from VFR to IFR and ask for a GCA guidance.

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