Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

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Cacophonix
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Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#261 Post by Cacophonix » Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:13 pm

Cheers, Boac, C16, FD2 and Slasher. I am privileged to have men such as yourselves rooting for me. With men of your calibre looking on I know there is only one way to do this and that is the right way. Sloppiness is not an option!

I will get there I promise you, my instructor and myself and hope to fly up to Scotland as my first long solo flight to learn a lot more, first hand from C16 when I get the PPL-H.

Caco

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Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#262 Post by Boac » Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:24 pm

C16 wrote:My instructor at Linton on Chipmunks
In my Chipmunk days there was one gnarled old bugger who had a shortened billiard cue in the back with which he used to poke the poor unsuspecting boy in the front - aiming for the cut-out at the back of the old bone-domes for extra pain. :))

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Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#263 Post by Slasher » Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:28 pm

Cacophonix wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:13 pm
I am privileged to have men such as yourselves rooting for me.
I assume Caco you know the antipodean interpretation of the word "rooting". However I'll certainly be more than happy to engage in sex on your behalf if it'll help you get solo next week.I just need to know if you are a moaner groaner grunter or screamer...and whether or not you curl your toes up. :D

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Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#264 Post by Cacophonix » Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:31 pm

Slasher wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:28 pm
Cacophonix wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:13 pm
I am privileged to have men such as yourselves rooting for me.
I assume Caco you know the antipodean interpretation of the word "rooting". However I'll certainly be more than happy to engage in sex on your behalf if it'll help you get solo next week.I just need to know if you're a moaner groaner grunter or screamer. :D
Oops I should have thought of that! =))

As ever, Boac you are in the humour of it! ;)))

Caco

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Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#265 Post by Cacophonix » Sat Dec 22, 2018 10:59 pm

Wodrick wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 6:49 pm
You'll hack it, if my little brother, who is a cack handed imbecile can then I'm sure you will. Luck.
Wodrick, you sum me up well, a Cac handed idiot! =))

With that in mind, and with respect to your brother I will fly with a smile on my face...

Caco

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Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#266 Post by CharlieOneSix » Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:11 pm

Cacophonix wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:13 pm
......I will get there I promise you, my instructor and myself and hope to fly up to Scotland as my first long solo flight to learn a lot more, first hand from C16 when I get the PPL-H.
Caco - is your alter ego Tracey Curtis-Taylor? Flying solo to Scotland with your instructor? However you arrive - one or two - I look forward to the event! :-bd

EDIT - no, sorry, I've misread your post - it's been a long day! :D
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Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#267 Post by Cacophonix » Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:21 pm

CharlieOneSix wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 11:11 pm
Cacophonix wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:13 pm
......I will get there I promise you, my instructor and myself and hope to fly up to Scotland as my first long solo flight to learn a lot more, first hand from C16 when I get the PPL-H.
Caco - is your alter ego Tracey Curtis-Taylor? Flying solo to Scotland with your instructor? However you arrive - one or two - I look forward to the event! :-bd

EDIT - no, sorry, I've misread your post - it's been a long day! :D
No, goddamn it man, my tits aren't that good! =))

Sides, I have made my across Scottish mountains, ice laden, tout seul many times in a fixed wing wagon! :-bd

I will meander my way in a heli too... o:-)

Caco

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Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#268 Post by Seenenough » Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:03 am

Cacophonix wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:13 pm
Cheers, Boac, C16, FD2 and Slasher. I am privileged to have men such as yourselves rooting for me. With men of your calibre looking on I know there is only one way to do this and that is the right way. Sloppiness is not an option!

I will get there I promise you, my instructor and myself and hope to fly up to Scotland as my first long solo flight to learn a lot more, first hand from C16 when I get the PPL-H.

Caco
Jeez Caco -you left me out.I have tried to help you a bit with the wonders of trying to fly a helicopter.Eventually you will get it right.I am proof that anyone can be taught to fly one.

We may have differences on other matters but I will always try and assist and encourage fellow fling winger.Especially one who has been at the old track.

Slasher

Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#269 Post by Slasher » Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:46 am

IMG_0767.JPG

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Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#270 Post by Cacophonix » Mon Dec 24, 2018 7:49 am

Seenenough wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 2:03 am
Cacophonix wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:13 pm
Cheers, Boac, C16, FD2 and Slasher. I am privileged to have men such as yourselves rooting for me. With men of your calibre looking on I know there is only one way to do this and that is the right way. Sloppiness is not an option!

I will get there I promise you, my instructor and myself and hope to fly up to Scotland as my first long solo flight to learn a lot more, first hand from C16 when I get the PPL-H.

Caco
Jeez Caco -you left me out.I have tried to help you a bit with the wonders of trying to fly a helicopter.Eventually you will get it right.I am proof that anyone can be taught to fly one.

We may have differences on other matters but I will always try and assist and encourage fellow fling winger.Especially one who has been at the old track.
Seenenough, mea culpa. You should have been included in that list as should have G~Man. Apologies to both of you.

There was no personal animus in my foolish lapse guys. Just the recency effect in that everyone of the people mentioned initially were online when I posted.

As for politics, some of my best friends hold political opinions that are 180 degrees opposite to mine and the thought of such pointless arguments when talking to pilots, who are often conservative minded by nature, ( just as well) just doesn't figure in my mind.

I appreciate the good advice from every body.

Thanks for your very kind and useful advice which I need Seenenough. Please continue to do so and rest assured that you will always get a respectful hearing and a friendly smile from me.

Caco

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Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#271 Post by Cacophonix » Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:20 pm

What flying should be about, namely having fun...



=))

Caco

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Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#272 Post by Cacophonix » Sat Jan 05, 2019 4:54 pm

Well, I managed to make another, total, idiot of myself today. Having got into the R44, I belted myself in and went through the checks, including the cyclic full and free, with and without hydraulics but didn't feel right in my seat, something was wrong but I couldn't fathom it immediately, and thus took off without saying anything to my instructor, only to discover that the pedals had been adjusted (I must admit that I didn't know the pedals could be adjusted) and that my legs were far too long for the adjustment and thus my knees were pushed up and my customary elbow nonchalantly resting on my thigh pose, was disrupted which threw me off completely. Whenever I pedalled, I managed to disrupt my cyclic arm which made spot turning exercises laughable thus necessitating landing, getting out and manually adjusting everything which finally solved my problems. Another big lesson learned!

This heli thing is certainly teaching me some humility anyway. My instructor Phil is a saint, who managed to be kind about my inanity!

No solo today!

Caco

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Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#273 Post by Boac » Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:55 pm

We will not be waiting long!

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Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#274 Post by CharlieOneSix » Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:59 pm

You’ll get there, Caco! A wee story which I may have told here before - on an oil rig I adjusted my seat vertically as it was my leg on the inbound sector. The seat ran all the way to its lowest setting and refused to budge so the other pilot flew the leg instead of me. In the line shack at ABZ I reported it to the engineers, one of whom suggested I could have temporarily solved things by sittting on my wallet. There’s always a comedian lurking in a corner!

EDIT: I do not recommend this extreme way of getting the pedals further away from your seat......
.
pedals.jpg
pedals.jpg (61.13 KiB) Viewed 779 times
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Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#275 Post by Cacophonix » Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:03 pm

CharlieOneSix wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:59 pm
You’ll get there, Caco! A wee story which I may have told here before - on an oil rig I adjusted my seat vertically as it was my leg on the inbound sector. The seat ran all the way to its lowest setting and refused to budge so the other pilot flew the leg instead of me. In the line shack at ABZ I reported it to the engineers, one of whom suggested I could have temporarily solved things by sittting on my wallet. There’s always a comedian lurking in a corner!

EDIT: I do not recommend this extreme way of getting the pedals further away from your seat......
.
My original instructor on the fixed wing side, was a really short guy and had to put a booster cushion under his derriere to see over the coaming. He was a very good pilot (and guy) mind and now poles around as a 777 Captain. Last heard of at BA.

As for the pedal error I am still blushing. I don't dare look at the ruins of what once was an airworthy aircraft above C16. :-s

As for helicopters I am currently studying this for homework...

http://www.gyronimosystems.com/SFAR/

Robinson's in-house course for the PPL-H, has the student potentially going solo at 18 hours.

Robinson Training.JPG
https://robinsonheli.com/wp-content/upl ... l_book.pdf

In the interests of keeping myself honest, I show my own log here.

Caco12 hours.JPG


I am flying again this Saturday. Time to get serious and stop being a prannet!


Caco

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Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#276 Post by CharlieOneSix » Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:35 pm

Caco - I'm coming up to 20 years out of date regarding current practice so....idle curiosity....does the training include engine off landings or is it just autorotations to a powered recovery? There is the school of thought that if you can get the machine to the right place and a powered recovery then, without risking the helicopter in practice EOL's, if it happens for real you should be able to walk away from what occurs in the last few feet!

All my base checks on 47's, 206's and Gazelle included EOL's and so did the 1179 test to get them on the licence...but nowadays?

Good luck on Saturday - looks like you're just about ready..... :YMAPPLAUSE:
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Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#277 Post by Cacophonix » Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:46 pm

CharlieOneSix wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:35 pm
Caco - I'm coming up to 20 years out of date regarding current practice so....idle curiosity....does the training include engine off landings or is it just autorotations to a powered recovery? There is the school of thought that if you can get the machine to the right place and a powered recovery then, without risking the helicopter in practice EOL's, if it happens for real you should be able to walk away from what occurs in the last few feet!

All my base checks on 47's, 206's and Gazelle included EOL's and so did the 1179 test to get them on the licence...but nowadays?

Good luck on Saturday - looks like you're just about ready..... :YMAPPLAUSE:
C16 the PPL-H curriculum covers simulated engine off landings i.e. (as you say) an autorotation to a powered recovery.

I assume that once one gets to fly more sophisticated types with some licenced hours under the belt, proper EOL's would be de rigueur.


Caco

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Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#278 Post by Seenenough » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:06 pm

Caco-Don't get anxious about going solo.You will one day feel that it all has fallen into place and you will feel ready.

If you have a good ab-inito instructor ,as I did , he will see it and feel it also and ask you to land and he will get out and let you fly a circuit alone.He gave me no warning and I was not expecting him to do so when we started the lesson.I was a bit shocked but he said to me as he climbed out "go and do the circuit that we have just done together".

No one saw me solo other than my instuctor ,but I will remember it forever which is all that matters in the end

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Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#279 Post by Cacophonix » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:34 pm

Caco-Don't get anxious about going solo.You will one day feel that it all has fallen into place and you will feel ready.

If you have a good ab-into instructor ,as I did , he will see it and feel it also and ask you to land and he will get out and let you fly a circuit alone.

No one saw me solo other than my instuctor , but I will remember it forever which is all that matters in the end
Appreciate the good advice Seenenough. I have a very good instructor who is also a great bloke and will abide by his opinion and experience.

I am not so much anxious as just keen to get on, while ensuring that I have the skills of course. I guess I am looking at my fixed wing solo experience where I went solo in less than 12 hours and as an older bugger just want to show that I can still cut the mustard! I still have an bit of an ego left in my aged body I guess, silly older sod that I am ;)))

You are right, of course, I should just chill out and enjoy the experience, which I am doing and will do what it takes in whatever time it takes to do it.

As always I appreciate the support C16 and Seenenough. :-bd

On another subject, the SFAR73 thing is interesting

SFAR73 is applicable in the USA but whose training my school endorses while not being bound by the 20 hour minimum dual requirement for solo flight in the R44. In the USA it means that no tyro can go solo in an R44 unless…

SFAR73.JPG
SFAR73-2.JPG
The following relates mostly to the R22 but SFAR73 is applicable to the R44 as well.
Pilots of Robinson helicopters have a special little rule that they are required to follow, a rule unlike any other in the aviation community. That’s fairly significant when you think about it, right? SFAR 73 requires special training above and beyond what is already outlined in Part 61, Certification.

Accidents Leading to SFAR 73 NB - The Robinson R-22 two-seat, piston engine helicopter received its type certification from the FAA in 1979. It is a small, low-cost helicopter that would eventually become the most popular small utility/training helicopter around the world.

It would also have the highest accident rate, and by 1982 that rate was 6 fatal accidents per 100,000 flight hours (the General Aviation average fatal accident rate is usually around 1 per 100,000 hours).

Investigators could find no evidence of mechanical failure in the bulk of these accidents. It was a well-built aircraft with a reliable engine and strong construction. But a lot of them were falling out of the sky, and many people were killed, mostly low-time pilots and instructors. This phenomenon was a mystery to many for some time.

Three fatal accidents occurred within two weeks of each other in the fall of 1982. The first two accidents occurred when the main rotor struck and severed the tailcone in flight, and the third accident was a result of the main rotor hub pounding and then severing the rotor mast in flight.

Studies showed that it was impossible for the main rotor to contact the tailcone unless the main rotor RPM decayed to 50%. As a result, the NTSB issued a safety recommendation to suspend the R-22’s airworthiness certificate until further studies could be done to determine that pilots could react to a stall with a normal margin of error, and that the engine provided enough torque to the rotor system. The main rotor blades were so light that once the RPM began to decay, the low inertia would cause the RPM decay to happen at a rapid rate, faster than some pilots could react.

Fast-forward to 1992. Robinson Helicopter Company had since passed its tests, redesigned the blades (though they were still considered “low-inertia”), and started the Robinson Pilot Safety Course to teach CFIs about the differences in flying Robinsons from other helicopters. The accident rate was more closely aligned to that of the rest of the GA community. But in June of that year, an R-22 broke up in flight with no warning to the pilots, resulting in the deaths of a CFI and his student.


Accident investigation, in this case, was unique in that the student was recording audio of the lesson. Audio analysis indicated that the main rotor RPM was operating within limits when suddenly, with no warning or indication of mechanical failure, the main rotor struck the tailcone. Then the following year and again in 1994, there were two more fatal accidents where the main rotor diverged from its plane of rotation in flight and struck the fuselage.



The NTSB studied 18 other similar fatal accidents between 1982 and July 1994, and issued a safety recommendation to establish an airworthiness directive lowering the R-22 “never exceed speed” to a speed lower than that where previous accidents occurred, until a reason for the accidents could be found. The FAA rejected this recommendation.

That same year, 1994, there were two fatal accidents in Germany with the new R-44 four-seat model. In both accidents, the main rotor struck the cockpit. Before the year would end there would be two more fatal R-22 accidents where the main rotor struck the tailcone in flight. No sign of mechanical failure could be found in any of these accidents.

In January 1995 the NTSB issued another safety recommendation to suspend all flight operations in the R-22 and R-44 until further research, testing, and modifications could be made. The FAA followed up on this one week later issuing Special Airworthiness Information to give pilots background on these accidents.

Research and testing showed the blades were not inherently unstable, but that these accidents occurred from a low RPM situation or large control inputs that caused the rotor hub to strike the mast – pilot error. Out of this, SFAR 73 was born in March 1995.

The emergency SFAR 73 was issued in March 1995 with an expiration date of December 31, 1997. This SFAR required special training, endorsements, and flight reviews for all persons wishing to operate the controls of an R-22 or R-44.

By the time the expiration date of this emergency SFAR came around, there had been no accidents related to low RPM, low g, or main rotor contact with the fuselage. The SFAR was extended five years, through 2002, and was amended slightly.

Between 1998 and 2002 there were only two accidents involving low RPM or low g; a significant decrease from previous years. The FAA extended SFAR 73 through March 2008, and as a result of ongoing low accident rates, was made a permanent addition to Part 61.

Current SFAR 73 (as 2015 and current in 2019)

Do you fly, or wish to fly Robinson helicopters? This is SFAR 73 in plain English.

In its current state issued August 2015, this SFAR still only applies to the R-22 and R-44, not the new R-66 turbine.

Awareness Ground Training
Consists of energy management, mast bumping, low rotor RPM, low g hazards, and rotor RPM decay.

Completion of the Robinson Pilot Safety Course will satisfy this awareness training.

For Students without Helicopter Rating
Before first flight: Awareness training and logbook endorsement.

Before logging PIC time: 10 hours of dual instruction and a logbook endorsement (R-44 students can credit 5 hours of R-22 time).

Before your solo: 20 hours of dual instruction in that particular model and a logbook endorsement, good for 90 days, showing you’ve received training in enhanced autorotations, RPM control without the governor, low RPM and recovery, and effects of low g & recovery.
For Pilots with Helicopter Rating

Awareness training and a logbook endorsement.
With less than 200 helicopter hours.
An endorsement and flight training in enhanced autorotations, RPM control without the governor, low RPM and recovery, and effects of low g & recovery.

10 hours of dual instruction in the R-22 for the R-22; R-44 pilots can credit 5 hours of R-22 time.

An annual flight review in the specific model you wish to fly (can’t count an R-22 flight review towards the R-44).

With greater than 200 helicopter hours, including at least 50 in the R-22 (for R-22) or 50 in the R-44 (for R-44, can credit 25 hours of R-22 time).

A biennial flight review in the specific model you wish to fly (can’t count an R-22 flight review towards the R-44).

For Instructors
Awareness training and a logbook endorsement.

At least 200 hours in helicopters, which include at least 50 in the R-22 (for the R-22) or 50 in the R-44 (for R-44, can credit 25 hours of R-22 time).

Complete the proper flight training outlined above.

An endorsement from a pilot examiner.

There is nothing “wrong” with the design of Robinson helicopters. It just has unique operating characteristics and is a very safe helicopter to fly with the proper knowledge of its operation
Must admit, it all does seem a little over the top but I respect the safety first ethos the FAA seem to be supporting and guess that US Robinson pilots will just be better for all the recurrence training etc..

https://disciplesofflight.com/sfar-73-a ... -aviation/


Caco

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Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#280 Post by Cacophonix » Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:42 pm

The Robinson training videos are pretty good and I am now becoming a Robinson devotee (I know no better of course) and really believe that Frank Robinson has gone well beyond the call of duty to vindicate his fine helicopters and ensure that pilots fly them well and safely.




Caco

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