Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

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CharlieOneSix
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Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#41 Post by CharlieOneSix » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:13 am

If a helicopter blade tip goes supersonic you're in real trouble! The designer will have to take into account that the forward speed of the helicopter, say 140kts, has to be added to the speed of the advancing blade tip, say 300kts, and the two added together, in this case an effective airspeed over the advancing blade tip of 440kts, to ensure the blade does not go supersonic. In this case it is well below the speed of sound.

The other complication in this scenario is that the retreating blade is rotating at 300kts but with the forward airspeed of 140kts the effective airspeed over the retreating blade tip is 160kts. This is the reason that helicopters in their true form without the addition of stub wings or BERP tips on the rotor blades are limited to around 220kts. Any faster and a) the advancing blade approaches supersonic and b) the retreating blade will stall.
Retreatingbladestall.png
Retreatingbladestall.png (97.01 KiB) Viewed 624 times

This incident to a HEMS BK117 is of interest and shows how vicious retreating blade stall is - 70 degree pitch up followed by 120 degree roll. He was fortunate to be at 5000ft as he lost 4000ft in the recovery! High all-up weight, high density altitude, turbulence, high power and airspeed, all combined to provide the conditions for this incident. The pilot should have reduced collective immediately rather than concentrate on reducing the pitch excursion as this would have immediately unstalled the retreating blade. Easy to say in hindsight. When faced with a violent pitch up the natural reaction is of course to apply cyclic.

HEMS BK117 Incident
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Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#42 Post by Cacophonix » Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:14 pm

The vector situation is actually analogous to what you find in tornadoes where in a tornado rotating in a anti-cyclonic direction (for example) the speed of the wind is the sum of the forward motion plus the rotational vector of tornado itself on the right hand side of the tornado and less the forward movement on the other side of the rotation.

So, in a helicopter, to recover in this situation, by lowering the collective you effectively reduce the angle of attack thus allowing the stalled retreating blade(s) (in the cycle) to be unstalled when you then slow the helicopter by gently using aft cyclic. I get it. Thank you C16.

I also note...
the BERP (British Experimental Rotor Programme) rotor blade design
From Wiki...
If we wish to reduce compressibility effects in forward flight, we can use sweep on the tip of a rotor blade. Many modern helicopters use some form of simple sweepback on the blade tip. Examples are the UH-60 Blackhawk and the AH-64 Apache.

However, so we don't get centre of gravity or aerodynamic centre movements aft of the blade elastic axis (which can introduce undesirable aerodynamic and inertial couplings), then the tip must be configured with an area shift forward. This can be kept to a minimum by recognizing that the Mach number is varying along the blade so we do not have to use a constant sweep angle, thereby minimizing the amount of forward area shift.

The methodology used in the design of the BERP blade ensures that the effective Mach number normal to the blade remains nominally constant over the swept region. The maximum sweep employed on the large part of the BERP blade is 30 degrees and the tip starts at a non-dimensional radius r/R=cos 30 = 86% radius. The area distribution of this tip region is configured to ensure that the mean tip centre of pressure is located on the elastic axis of the blade. This is done by offsetting the location of the local 1/4-chord axis forward at 86% radius.

This offset also produces a discontinuity in the leading edge (referred to as a notch), which results in other interesting effects. For example, recent calculations using a CFD code based on the Navier-Stokes equations, has shown that this "notch" actually helps to further reduce the strength of shock waves on the blade. Thus, an unexpected by-product of the notch over and above the basic effect of sweep is to help to reduce compressibility effects even further.

We must also recognize that a swept tip geometry of this sort will not necessarily improve the performance of the blade at high angle of attack corresponding to the retreating side of the disk. In fact, experience has shown that a swept tip blade can have an inferior stalling characteristic compared to the standard blade tip.

The BERP blade employs a final geometry that performs as a swept tip at high Mach numbers and low angles of attack, yet also enables the tip to operate at very high angles of attack without stalling. This latter attribute was obtained by radically increasing the sweep of the outermost part of the tip (the outer 2% approximately) to a value (70 degrees) where any significant angle of attack will cause leading edge flow separation.

Because the leading edge is so highly swept, this leading edge separation develops into a vortex structure which rolls around the leading edge and eventually sits over the upper surface (as on a delta wing aircraft). This mechanism is enhanced by making the leading edge of the aerofoil in this region relatively sharp.

As the angle of attack is increased, then this vortex begins to develop from a point further and further forward along the leading edge, following the planform geometry into the more moderately swept region. At a sufficiently high angle of attack, the vortex will initiate close to the forward most part of the leading edge near the "notch" region.

Evidence has shown that a strong "notch" vortex is also formed, which is trailed streamwise across the blade. This vortex acts like an aerodynamic fence and retards the flow separation region from encroaching into the tip region.
Further increases in angle of attack make little change to the flow structure until a very high angle of attack is reached (in the vicinity of 22 degrees!) when the flow will grossly separate. For a conventional tip planform, a similar gross flow breakdown would be expected to occur at about 12 degrees local angle of attack.

Therefore, the BERP blade manages to make the best of both worlds by reducing compressibility effects on the advancing blade and delaying the onset of retreating blade stall. The net result is a significant increase in the operational flight envelope.
The Super Lynx uses this technology and the old Lynx still holds the Guiness book of records official world record speed for a helicopter...
Westland Super Lynx.JPG
Westland Super Lynx.JPG (27.83 KiB) Viewed 617 times
The official FAI speed record for helicopters is 400.87 km/h (249.09 mph) and was set by John Trevor Eggington with co-pilot Derek J Clews, over Glastonbury, Somerset, England on 11 August 1986 in a Westland Lynx demonstrator.
Caco

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Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#43 Post by Alisoncc » Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:22 am

A little levity. The new Caco:

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Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#44 Post by CharlieOneSix » Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:12 am

That will be a good representation of Caco on the day his instructor first gives him, cyclic, collective and pedals in the hover for the first time.....oh, and an acre or so of clear airfield!

The following is donkeys years old but still a good maxim today:

“THE TEN COMMANDMENTS OF HELICOPTER FLYING”

- He who inspecteth not his aircraft gives his angels cause to concern him.

- Thou shalt not become airborne without first ascertaining the level of thy propellant.

- Let infinite discretion govern thy movement near the ground, for thy area of destruction is vast.

- Thy rotor RPM is thy staff of life, without it thou shalt surely perish.

- Thou shalt maintain thy speed between ten and four hundred feet, lest the earth rise and smite thee.

- Thou shalt not make a trial of thy centre of gravity, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.

- Thou shalt not let thy confidence exceed thy ability, for broad is the way to destruction.

- He that doeth his approach and alloweth the wind to turn behind him shall surely make restitution.

- He who alloweth his tail rotor to catch in the thorns curseth his children and his children’s children.

- Observe thou this parable, lest on the morrow thy friends mourn thee:
Safety dwells with the safest man
Who flies his bird as safe as he can.
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Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#45 Post by Boac » Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:28 pm

but, as long as he makes his arsehole smile, all will be well.

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Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#46 Post by Cacophonix » Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:13 pm

Boac wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:28 pm
but, as long as he makes his arsehole smile, all will be well.
My arsehole smiles for no man, woman or even the gravity God, Profundus Crashy Bumpus either! ;)))

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Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#47 Post by Boac » Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:13 pm

Then you will never master hovering on the spot and 360s and will always be filing for a cross-country :))

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Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#48 Post by Cacophonix » Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:40 am

My AME was giving me advice on hovering after my medical this morning and it certainly was less alarming than the cleft smiling backside approach noted above, his being to look at the horizon and to adopt a more Zen approach and think of alighting on rice paper where one wants to hover. His advice was not to overthink the thing.

The copter site seems to make a lot of sense... What do the aficionados here think?
Part of the problem is that the cyclic is not a position control. You don't move the cyclic 1 inch to the right to move the helicopter 1 inch to the right. The cyclic also isn't a simple rate control. You don't move the cyclic 1 inch to the right to move to the right at 1 inch per second. The cyclic is an acceleration control. You move the cyclic 1/4 inch to the right if you want to slowly accelerate to the right. You move the cyclic 1 inch to the right if you want to accelerate extremely rapidly to the right. The problem is that usually in hovering flight we don't want to deal with accelerations, we just want to deal with absolute position over the ground.
If the cyclic were a position control, the pilot could look out the window, decide he wanted to be 1 inch to the right, move the cyclic 1 inch to the right and be done with it. The actual process the pilot needs to go through is more like this:

Look out the window and decide he wants to be 1 inch to the right
  • Input some right cyclic to start a bank to the right
  • Judge the acceleration to the right
  • When the helicopter has accelerated to the correct speed to the right, center the cyclic.
  • As the helicopter approaches the desired position, move the cyclic to the left.
  • Judge the decelleration. If the helicopter is decelerating too rapidly, reduce the amount of left cyclic. If the helicopter is not decelerating rapidly enough, increase the amount of cyclic.
  • As the helicopter comes to a stop, center the cyclic. If you misjudged the deceleration and you are not exactly over your spot, start all over.
http://www.copters.com/pilot/hovering.html

I think my error in the last lesson was not to move the cyclic back to the centre every time.

Can't wait for my next lesson. I started to waver when I looked at the cost which is going to be steep but I awoke today calm in the state of mind that this is NOT a waste of money despite some doubts over the weekend.

Alea iacta est!

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Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#49 Post by CharlieOneSix » Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:35 pm

Cacophonix wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:40 am
......His advice was not to overthink the thing.....
I think that's the best bit of advice in your last post. Nothing wrong with the quote from copters.com though.

Remember at the weekend we discussed learning to drive and how each bit of clutch operation, changing gear and throttle came together to be a smooth operation after a relatively short time? So it will be with hovering. Your AME's advice was good :-bd .
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Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#50 Post by Cacophonix » Tue Apr 24, 2018 4:38 pm

CharlieOneSix wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:35 pm
Cacophonix wrote:
Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:40 am
......His advice was not to overthink the thing.....
I think that's the best bit of advice in your last post. Nothing wrong with the quote from copters.com though.

Remember at the weekend we discussed learning to drive and how each bit of clutch operation, changing gear and throttle came together to be a smooth operation after a relatively short time? So it will be with hovering. Your AME's advice was good :-bd .
Yes, your analogy with driving was a good one C16! :-bd

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Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#51 Post by 603DX » Thu May 03, 2018 5:52 pm

Caco, I've followed your accounts here with interest, your big beaming smile says it all! Since my son lives with his family in Headcorn, I would appreciate it if your learning curve keeps you well clear of the built-up area of the village, if there is any auto-rotation practice to be done ... ;))) :D

There are a couple of things about Headcorn airfield that you might not be aware of, and may find interesting:

1) On 4th July 1944, when it was actually named Lashenden Advanced Landing Ground, General Eisenhower landed there in the back seat of a specially converted P51 Mustang piloted by Brigadier General Queseda, after a recce flight over enemy lines in Normandy. There is a photograph of them walking away from the aircraft afterwards, in "Kent Airfields in the Second World War", by Robin J. Brooks. I have read elsewhere that Churchill was not pleased about what he regarded as an unnecessary risk taken by the Supreme Commander.

2) I believe that flights in a two-seater Spitfire are available from Headcorn, at an appropriate price. Just saying ... :ymdevil:

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Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#52 Post by Cacophonix » Fri May 04, 2018 3:26 pm

603DX wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 5:52 pm
Caco, I've followed your accounts here with interest, your big beaming smile says it all! Since my son lives with his family in Headcorn, I would appreciate it if your learning curve keeps you well clear of the built-up area of the village, if there is any auto-rotation practice to be done ... ;))) :D

There are a couple of things about Headcorn airfield that you might not be aware of, and may find interesting:

1) On 4th July 1944, when it was actually named Lashenden Advanced Landing Ground, General Eisenhower landed there in the back seat of a specially converted P51 Mustang piloted by Brigadier General Queseda, after a recce flight over enemy lines in Normandy. There is a photograph of them walking away from the aircraft afterwards, in "Kent Airfields in the Second World War", by Robin J. Brooks. I have read elsewhere that Churchill was not pleased about what he regarded as an unnecessary risk taken by the Supreme Commander.

2) I believe that flights in a two-seater Spitfire are available from Headcorn, at an appropriate price. Just saying ... :ymdevil:
603DX I shall ensure that any Cacophonix occupied aircraft will be kept well clear of the village and your nearest and dearest. :)

You interesting historic note about Eisenhower and his P51 recce has piqued my interest but your devilish incitement to try a flight in the Spitfire would likely result in my assassination by my better half so I shall, unfortunately, yield to such aviation blandishments! ;)))

Caco

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Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#53 Post by Cacophonix » Wed May 16, 2018 3:01 pm

Another lesson tomorrow. What will come first? The PPL-H or bankruptcy?

=))

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Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#54 Post by CharlieOneSix » Wed May 16, 2018 3:31 pm

Enjoy, Caco! The weather tomorrow looks good.
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Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#55 Post by Rwy in Sight » Wed May 16, 2018 4:12 pm

Caco, if you need a so called alibi to indulge in a flight with a Spitfire or a similar aviation endeavor let us discreetly know via PM - in case your wife reads this site. (oops the message does not make sense any more). Anyway let us know and we will organize a bash to cover you.

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Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#56 Post by Cacophonix » Wed May 16, 2018 4:27 pm

Rwy in Sight wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 4:12 pm
Caco, if you need a so called alibi to indulge in a flight with a Spitfire or a similar aviation endeavor let us discreetly know via PM - in case your wife reads this site. (oops the message does not make sense any more). Anyway let us know and we will organize a bash to cover you.
That's a very kind thought Rwy in SIght but I suspect the only bashing that would occur if I take you up on the offer would be to my head from the accurate left hooks and jabs from my very agile better half! =))

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Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#57 Post by Woody » Wed May 16, 2018 5:18 pm

That's a very kind thought Rwy in SIght but I suspect the only bashing that would occur if I take you up on the offer would be to my head from the accurate left hooks and jabs from my very agile better half! =))
If I can get MrsWoody to release me for the Champions League Final in Kiev, a second mortgage for a Spitfire trip should be child’s play :-*
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Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#58 Post by Cacophonix » Thu May 17, 2018 4:43 pm

Back to the lecture room for the neophyte earlier today and a whole plethora of interesting concepts and terms such as rotor blade coning, shaft axis, tip path, plane of rotation, axis of rotation, resultant lift vectors, pivot point, tail rotor thrust, effects of the controls including briefing and aerial practise of all of those including with and without the R44 governor. First try at hovering with all controls in my sweaty paws and at my nudging/paddling footies and an autorotation just for fun... :)

Didn't quite end up wearing the hovering cone of shame but still "can do a lot better"...

It was bloody marvelous! :) Why didn't I do this all those years ago ? :((


Now reading Sparrow's Helicopter Pilot's Guide. Was tormented by the Spitfire and the Harvard that were seen practising aeros earlier in the day.

Back to school....JPG
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A rose amongst thorns and and a wayward Heron..JPG
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Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#59 Post by CharlieOneSix » Thu May 17, 2018 6:24 pm

Sounds as though you did well, Caco! When is the next lesson?
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Re: Caco's trial helicopter flight.....

#60 Post by Cacophonix » Thu May 17, 2018 6:39 pm

CharlieOneSix wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 6:24 pm
Sounds as though you did well, Caco! When is the next lesson?
On the 29th of this month CharlieOneSix.

Caco

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