2015 Fox Glacier 350 Crash

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FD2
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2015 Fox Glacier 350 Crash

#1 Post by FD2 » Fri May 17, 2019 11:14 am

The November 2015 Squirrel crash, into a crevasse of the Fox Glacier on the west coast of New Zealand, which killed 6 passengers and one pilot has finally seen the company director fined $64,000 in court. The fine doesn't relate to the crash itself but to what appears to have been slack management of flights and training in general. I was amazed to find that they cram six passengers into these machines, like the Hudson crash in New York. When I flew the single and the twin Squirrels - only for about 30 hours - I had one in the front (with dual controls removed) and three in the back.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/112808 ... pter-crash

Perhaps the NZ CAA will now take the checking and supervision of these tourism related companies more seriously, with a few unannounced spot checks and serious fines for mismanagement.

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Re: 2015 Fox Glacier 350 Crash

#2 Post by G~Man » Fri May 17, 2019 7:00 pm

It is standard practice in the tour industry to replace the front seat with a dual bench seat. I carried 6 passengers on each flight for 7 years in Hawaii.
B-) Life may not be the party you hoped for, but while you're here, you may as well dance. B-)

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Re: 2015 Fox Glacier 350 Crash

#3 Post by FD2 » Fri May 17, 2019 7:50 pm

How did the 'weightier' ones enjoy that? We had the occasional porkers and they took up more than their own seat in the configuration we had! No doubt the 6 pax layout has been working successfully for many years so no problems there apart from comfort...

What I think is more to the point is that some of these companies, like this one, might have been cutting corners on weight and balance, training, performance etc. It's people they are carrying, not underslung deer but that's just my feelings on the matter as a potential customer, now I've retired.

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Re: 2015 Fox Glacier 350 Crash

#4 Post by Rossian » Sat May 18, 2019 2:37 pm

Having taken such a flight at Fox Glacier in 2011 all I can say is that I thoroughly enjoyed it. The pilot looked about 12 yrs old but seemed to be perfectly competent. When we stopped (parked) on the ice to get out and take photos, he got out to photo the whole group (5) and looked slightly baffled when I asked him whether he'd put the parking brake on. He then went to small "cubbyhole" at the back of the fuselage which was where he downloaded all the piccies he'd taken to the company office and when we landed there they all were ready for us to buy! What really made the day was the pleasure my wife and an elderly Canadian lady had taken from their first helo flight. There was a middle-aged Australian guy who sat in the middle in the back with his eyes shut the whole time airborne - why did he bother to come?? One of life's eternal mysteries.

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Re: 2015 Fox Glacier 350 Crash

#5 Post by FD2 » Sat May 18, 2019 10:44 pm

I'm delighted you and your wife had a good flight Rossian and hope you enjoyed your visit to the country as well. These young guys are keen as mustard and smart as whips, but we all need to be spared commercial pressure from above at times.

I'm not advocating a Gestapo style regime - I just think the CAA needs a couple more Flight Ops inspectors. There was a Cessna Caravan crash down there a few years ago https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/73477548/null and a few others over the years where a few more thorough inspections might have made a difference.

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Re: 2015 Fox Glacier 350 Crash

#6 Post by prospector » Mon May 20, 2019 4:38 am

There was a Cessna Caravan crash down there a few years ago.

I do believe the aircraft involved was a FU24 converted from topdressing role, there was quite a controversy at the time with the C of G and weight findings.

However, if the elevator trim was wound right back, as is usual during the landing phase, and a take off is commenced with the trim still there, rather than being wound two thirds approx forward, and with an aft c of g , then the end result as was witnessed was a very likely outcome. The full flying elevator was quite a handful if not trimmed correctly.

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Re: 2015 Fox Glacier 350 Crash

#7 Post by FD2 » Mon May 20, 2019 4:45 am

CAA admits being 'too trusting' https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/arti ... d=12232517

Thanks prospector - is there any feedback in the cockpit showing elevator position, or is it just a case of winding it forward or backward?

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Re: 2015 Fox Glacier 350 Crash

#8 Post by prospector » Mon May 20, 2019 5:11 am

Yes, the trim wheel is right alongside and slightly above the throttle/propeller/mixture controls. There was a flight test done with the trim wound right back, and the test aircraft was controllable,. However that test was done with the pilot expecting the loading on the control column, and I believe with an empty aircraft. A completely different scenario of suddenly being confronted with an aircraft that upon reaching flying speed on the take off run suddenly rears nose up, the unrestrained load then all tumbling to the rear of the cabin and exacerbating an already marginal situation.

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Re: 2015 Fox Glacier 350 Crash

#9 Post by ExSp33db1rd » Mon May 20, 2019 5:26 am

suddenly rears nose up, the unrestrained load then all tumbling to the rear of the cabin and exacerbating an already marginal situation.
Avro Tudor (?) landing at Cardiff (?) Crew announce about to land, all the Taffy's got up and walked to the back of the aircraft to be first to get off.
Result as to be expected.

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Re: 2015 Fox Glacier 350 Crash

#10 Post by FD2 » Mon May 20, 2019 10:11 am

I think there were only two flight ops inspectors in the country for over 600 helicopters registered at the time. They now have eight, for over 900 machines registered according to TV news tonight, and the original two inspectors have gone.

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Re: 2015 Fox Glacier 350 Crash

#11 Post by Alisoncc » Tue May 21, 2019 6:31 am

ExSp33db1rd wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 5:26 am
suddenly rears nose up, the unrestrained load then all tumbling to the rear of the cabin and exacerbating an already marginal situation.
Avro Tudor (?) landing at Cardiff (?) Crew announce about to land, all the Taffy's got up and walked to the back of the aircraft to be first to get off.
Reminds me of a DC3 charter from Port Moresby to Thursday Island for a rugby match early 1970's. Coming back aircraft full of very inebriated team and supporters. Some smart arse got the idea of giving the pilot some grief by having all pax move to the left side of the cabin, wait briefly and then move to right. Repeating. Captain emerged from cockpit with pistol in hand, stating "The next person to leave their seat I will shoot". He wasn't kidding. :(
Rev Mother Bene Gesserit.

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Re: 2015 Fox Glacier 350 Crash

#12 Post by FD2 » Thu May 23, 2019 4:37 am


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Re: 2015 Fox Glacier 350 Crash

#13 Post by FD2 » Fri May 24, 2019 5:12 am


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Re: 2015 Fox Glacier 350 Crash

#14 Post by FD2 » Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:43 am

BETTER LATE THAN NEVER

Coroner calls for stronger aviation rules after Fox Glacier helicopter crash (2015)

How did this take 7 years? https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/ ... pter-crash

In an aircraft with seven (very quashed but that's not relevant here) passenger seats the variation using standard weights might be very significant if some are like the tourist family in the film 'In Bruges' but I guess they just wouldn't all fit in anyway.





The glacier is also quite high so I'd be interested to know what the aircraft's max weight to achieve a hover out of ground effect would be up there - may be significantly less than the 2100 kg mentioned. Very sad event - a badly run operation chasing the tourist dollar and poorly supervised by the CAA.

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