R44 - Would you fly with this guy...?

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CharlieOneSix
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R44 - Would you fly with this guy...?

#1 Post by CharlieOneSix » Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:13 am

Okay, so he can pole the thing but really....! He nearly lost it on the last rotation.
R44 - idiotic pilot
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Re: R44 - Would you fly with this guy...?

#2 Post by Pontius Navigator » Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:41 pm

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Re: R44 - Would you fly with this guy...?

#3 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:42 pm

If that chap continues to fly like that one doesn't need a crystal ball to see where it will all end.

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Re: R44 - Would you fly with this guy...?

#4 Post by Capetonian » Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:46 pm

I only know enough about helicopters to be scared of going in them.

Was that guy skilful, lucky, a reckless idiot, or all three?

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Re: R44 - Would you fly with this guy...?

#5 Post by Boac » Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:56 pm

No 4

ribrash

Re: R44 - Would you fly with this guy...?

#6 Post by ribrash » Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:04 pm

Boac wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:56 pm
No 4
No4....Dead man flying ?

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Re: R44 - Would you fly with this guy...?

#7 Post by G~Man » Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:02 pm

Dumbass....Darwin at work.
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Re: R44 - Would you fly with this guy...?

#8 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:27 am

There are dumbasses and then there are mistakes.

I follow this lady commercial helicopter pilot's blog. Here she candidly describes a mistake made that nearly cost her her life and wrecked an R44. Why fly like that idiot in the video above when there are so many other things waiting to catch an honest pilot out.

Another stupid pilot trick

PS - As an aside look at her videos, she obviously loves flying and who can blame her as she flies in Arizona and Washington State with all that stunning scenery.
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Re: R44 - Would you fly with this guy...?

#9 Post by ExSp33db1rd » Sun Jan 05, 2020 7:36 am

I only know enough about helicopters to be scared of going in them.
Hasn't it often been said that there is no way that anyone can theoretically prove that there are no know aeronautical algorithyms ( spelling ? !) to prove that a helicopter can actually fly ?

Only ever once "poled" a chopper I asked the instructor why we were calmly holding straight and level, but quietly moving sideways not forwards ? 'cos you're making it do that, he said.

Same like floatplanes. My only experience involved practicing the "step turn". I never did master that, either flew off the water in the middle of the turn - thereby heading for the rapidly approaching trees on the shore, or dropped back into the water in the middle of the turn, thereby losing the advantage of being on "the step" at the start of a short lake. Good fun trying tho'. I do remember having to do the walk-around in the hangar, before the aircraft was lowered into water - obviously ! and the instructor telling me that as soon as the engine started, we were "off", be prepared to steer. No brakes.

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Re: R44 - Would you fly with this guy...?

#10 Post by bob2s » Sun Jan 05, 2020 9:47 pm

There are helicopters and there are Robinsons,would not get in a Robinson in the hangar let alone fly in one!!!

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Re: R44 - Would you fly with this guy...?

#11 Post by CharlieOneSix » Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:46 pm

+1 to not flying in one.
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Re: R44 - Would you fly with this guy...?

#12 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:09 am

Ah, so the thread has morphed from a question about flying with a reckless pilot in an R44 to the question of flying in an R44 per se. With respect to the former proposition I would never get into a helicopter with the pilot noted in the video and would tell him why but am happy to fly in and fly the R44. In fact I did just that on Saturday and will happily continue to do so.

To date this site seems to have avoided the Robinson bashing that seems de rigueur, by some, at other sites. Clearly it is one's own prerogative as to whom one will fly with or in what aircraft one will fly and I respect the personal decisions of the folks who have opined here. After all some will happily drive a car but wouldn't dream of riding a motorcycle, for example. We all have our own personal limits and these are to be respected.

I have noted elsewhere, on other sites, that there are some very experienced commercial pilots , not least the infamous, but likable, Gatvol, an American commercial pilot with over 10000 hours in twins on a now defunct site, who have been scathing about the Robinson marque generally. Obviously when one hears such comments from experienced helicopter pilots one listens, assimilates and hopefully learns and makes ones own risk based, rational decisions.

When I asked the previously named Gatvol (a moniker on a now defunct site so I have no qualms in using it) which Robinson type he wouldn't fly in, i.e. the R22, R44 or the single turbine engined R46, he became somewhat vague, so I was left with an impression that it was all Robinson helicopters that he wouldn't fly in and yet when questioned in detail, he focused specifically on the R22 which is akin to saying I will never fly in any Boeing aircraft on the basis of the Max 300 issues (for example) which hardly seems rational to me.

It is true that the Robinson R22 has statistically been involved in a larger number of accidents than other types of light helicopter on the market over the last two decades or so but the numbers are often skewed and the statistical comparisons unfair when comparing the safety statistics of a light single helicopter, ubiquitous in its use for training students and the favourite mount of low hours PPL's, against those for a twin flown by higher hours commercial pilots and, overall,the statistical process, accidents per 1000 hours flown, often seems somewhat specious to me.

I won't labour the point. One only has to Google or visit any one of a number of aviation sites to see the arguments both ways. I think Frank Robinson, unfairly, gets a bad press and I don't think there is any other light helicopter company that does more to ensure that pilots, and would be pilots, are informed and trained, to fly its excellent helicopters safely.

Idiots like the one noted above are a disgrace to flying, in any type of aircraft, generally.
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Re: R44 - Would you fly with this guy...?

#13 Post by Slasher » Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:15 am

I have been in choppers a few times as a pax and felt quite safe. This is because I knew the pilots. Never really been interested in learning to fly ‘em but it’d be a good challenge nonetheless to at least solo in one. 👍🏻

Put a 320 cadet in a DH82 with minimal instruction and he’ll go and kill himself. That doesn’t mean the DH82 is inherently a dangerous aeroplane. Far from it really.

If some drivers want to do risky manouvres then they should do it out in the sticks well away from populated areas including roads. The moron in the original video is an insecure idiot who needs to publically wank off to gain respect. We all know that truly skillful pilots don’t need to do any of that dangerous* sh!t.

* dangerous to others. No one gives a crap about the wanker.

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Re: R44 - Would you fly with this guy...?

#14 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:02 am

TheGreenGoblin wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:09 am
R44 or the single turbine engined R46,
Errata - or the single turbine engined R66
Here is a case in point. A generally credible newspaper looks at the R44 specifically and vaguely attempts to put the arguments pro and con into some context but mangles objectivity by focusing on one specific accident where an egregious pilot error resulted in a crash where the helicopter caught fire and then goes on to say that the "R44 fuel tanks split open like a Pesi can"! Well one could say that about many aircraft accidents. What the article fails to note is that the R44 is now built with fuel bladders inside the tanks etc. Most light aircraft (taking account of fixed wing aircraft as well) aren't similarly equipped. It is such tendentious journalism that gets my goat...

The table published therein is very dubious not least because it compares apples with oranges mixing single engined helicopters with twins and doesn't seem to take account of the numbers of passengers transported per flight hour per type etc. Couple that with the veiled implication that only Robinson helicopters are subject to fatal mast bumping etc. (throw in a simplistic video and also thrown in the concept of "chugging"), use lots of emotive language with helicopters "falling" etc. and you have a case study in poor journalism about aviation generally and the R44 specifically.

I will desist from commenting further.

https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-me- ... licopters/
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Re: R44 - Would you fly with this guy...?

#15 Post by G~Man » Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:56 pm

Have not flown a Robinson since 1997, the aircraft is fine, it has some design characteristics that would be better flown with more experienced pilots, I will leave it at that.. I had just under 4,000 hours in them when I stopped flying them.

As for frost......
TheGreenGoblin wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:27 am
I follow this lady commercial helicopter pilot's blog. Here she candidly describes a mistake made that nearly cost her her life and wrecked an R44. Why fly like that idiot in the video above when there are so many other things waiting to catch an honest pilot out.

Another stupid pilot trick
I had 7 helicopters working those same fields that night----we were less than 2 miles away and never heard about this till 3 days after the fact. There in lies a different problem. We were working for different farmers and she was not on the common frequency we were all using. There were different lessons learned and not learned here. Some companies will be "on-call" from their home base. My contract is different, we require the farmer to provide us hotel rooms, we will fly down in the afternoon---survey the assigned field and then retire to hotel rooms and the farmer will wake us up if conditions warrant. We also have a travel trailer at the field and have a roaring outside fire where we can relax in comfort between flights. We spent about 2 weeks doing this.

To give you an idea....here is what it looks like at dusk, and then 30 minutes earlier.......(note the time---this is hours flown--we hot refuel all night long):
1.jpg
Not sure why it is upside down
2.jpg
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Re: R44 - Would you fly with this guy...?

#16 Post by ian16th » Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:59 pm

As a matter of interest, how do you 'control frost' with a helicopter?
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Re: R44 - Would you fly with this guy...?

#17 Post by G~Man » Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:26 pm

ian16th wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:59 pm
As a matter of interest, how do you 'control frost' with a helicopter?
Basically by raising the temperature surrounding the trees, either by flying right above the inversion layer and pushing warmer air down or by flying low enough, (typically 40' for Long Ranger, 60' for my Hueys), and the downwash circulates the air thereby preventing the buds from freezing. Here in California we use this technique primarily on Oranges and Almonds, we also "dry" cherries by blowing the water off them. I have seen everything from R-22's, (which are really NOT that effective), all the way up to Chinooks working fields.
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Re: R44 - Would you fly with this guy...?

#18 Post by ian16th » Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:05 pm

Ah!

I'll open a local franchise, the next time that the local banana crop is threatened.

Mind you I do believe that the next frost down here will be the first one.
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