Kobe Bryant dead, private Sikorsky S-76 down

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Re: Kobe Bryant dead, private Sikorsky S-76 down

#41 Post by Pontius Navigator » Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:20 am

FD2, trouble is we all know about pressonitis and suckers gaps etc. Another factor might be wrong cues. You convince yourself that you are following the planned track, mentally tick off the visual checkpoints, and actually be off track.

In fixed wing the result is a sudden unplanned stop. In RW you might have enough time to kill your speed, or not.

Was he on his planned route?

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Re: Kobe Bryant dead, private Sikorsky S-76 down

#42 Post by Boac » Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:25 am

Was he on his planned route?
- read posts #20/#26?

I fear this can only be an unknown/best guess. No FDR, no survivors, not sure how intact the wreckage is, minimal ATC detail and as yet no witnesses coming forward afaik. I fancy FD2's 'report' will be a touch inconclusive.

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Re: Kobe Bryant dead, private Sikorsky S-76 down

#43 Post by G-CPTN » Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:49 am

Boac wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:37 am
Do we know the crash site elevation?
1085 ft.

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Re: Kobe Bryant dead, private Sikorsky S-76 down

#44 Post by Pontius Navigator » Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:05 pm

BOAC, good investigators have solved, or at least reduced possibilities, in more difficult circumstances than this, though you will well remember the old BOI fall back of pilot error.

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Re: Kobe Bryant dead, private Sikorsky S-76 down

#45 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:32 pm

I was wont to leave the fray but I can't stop wondering if time pressures didn't bedevil the decision making process on this flight what with a high profile perfectionist boss and his daughter needing to get to a venue on time! Did the potential delay in getting an IFR clearance through some of the busiest airspace in California prompt the decision to request a more direct SVFR clearance only for that logic to break down as the aircraft was held orbiting waiting for clearance outside Class D ? Running late and in deteriorating weather did the pilot feel the need to expedite his decision making process while maintaining airspeed resulting in a loss of situational awareness?

Yes, I know, right up there with the worst of TOP but at least I didn't post a METAR! :-s
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Re: Kobe Bryant dead, private Sikorsky S-76 down

#46 Post by probes » Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:26 pm

Flying IFR, however, is time-consuming and constrains pilots to following the directions of controllers. “Southern California airspace is extremely busy, and they might tell you to wait an hour,” assistant professor of aviation at the City University of New York Paul Cline told me. “You’re just one of many waiting in line, and it doesn’t matter if you’re Kobe Bryant.”
- from the article quoted before.
It mentioned somewhere Bryant had said in an interview he flies to get more quality time for his family. Looks like the time gained was cut from the end.

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Re: Kobe Bryant dead, private Sikorsky S-76 down

#47 Post by Undried Plum » Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:31 pm

I have a very low opinion of the NTSB, an organisation which I regard as intrinsically corrupted by its ownership by Corporate America.

There are some personal exceptions though. The IIC in this case is Bill English. I know him personally and have a very high regard for his personal integrity and intelligence.

Though the interested 'parties' will severely distort the eventual Report as they usually do, I think that in this case the IIC will subtly tell the truth, though you may need to 'read between the lines' to see it.

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Re: Kobe Bryant dead, private Sikorsky S-76 down

#48 Post by Boac » Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:58 pm

NTSB have released footage of the crash site.

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Re: Kobe Bryant dead, private Sikorsky S-76 down

#49 Post by ExSp33db1rd » Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:12 am

Kobe Who ? Yesterday I wrote a piece that I then accidentally placed on 2 threads, and suggested that it be "moderated", meaning moved from the least appropriate site, but it disappeared altogether ! No matter, I was ranting about the NZ TV Media totally swamping our screens with non-stop adoration of this person on all available channels, and I suggested that, without minimising the tragedy, weren't 9 people killed and what were their names and shouldn't some sympathy be directed towards their families, too ?

This morning's New Zealand Herald contained an article in which the writer quoted " ... One of the World's most important men .."

Give me strength.

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Re: Kobe Bryant dead, private Sikorsky S-76 down

#50 Post by FD2 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:25 am

We felt just the same about the over the top coverage Speedy.

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Re: Kobe Bryant dead, private Sikorsky S-76 down

#51 Post by probes » Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:28 am

didn't have TAWS, even though unclear if it had avoided the crash
Homendy said her agency had recommended that the Federal Aviation Administration 16 years ago require that all choppers carrying six or more passengers be equipped with a terrain awareness and warning system, adding that the FAA has “failed to act” on the proposal. Because the FAA didn’t follow the recommendation, the chopper that crashed Sunday was not legally required to have the system.
https://www.latimes.com/california/stor ... ace-arrest

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Re: Kobe Bryant dead, private Sikorsky S-76 down

#52 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:32 am

probes wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:28 am
didn't have TAWS, even though unclear if it had avoided the crash
Homendy said her agency had recommended that the Federal Aviation Administration 16 years ago require that all choppers carrying six or more passengers be equipped with a terrain awareness and warning system, adding that the FAA has “failed to act” on the proposal. Because the FAA didn’t follow the recommendation, the chopper that crashed Sunday was not legally required to have the system.
https://www.latimes.com/california/stor ... ace-arrest
I doubt that TAWS of GPWS would have been anything but a distraction as it would have been blaring warnings continually for the latter part of this flight given that the pilot had elected to fly close to hilly terrain to avoid the low cloud. Scud running to you and me.
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Re: Kobe Bryant dead, private Sikorsky S-76 down

#53 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:19 am

TheGreenGoblin wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:32 pm
I was wont to leave the fray but I can't stop wondering if time pressures didn't bedevil the decision making process on this flight what with a high profile perfectionist boss and his daughter needing to get to a venue on time! Did the potential delay in getting an IFR clearance through some of the busiest airspace in California prompt the decision to request a more direct SVFR clearance only for that logic to break down as the aircraft was held orbiting waiting for clearance outside Class D ? Running late and in deteriorating weather did the pilot feel the need to expedite his decision making process while maintaining airspeed resulting in a loss of situational awareness?

Yes, I know, right up there with the worst of TOP but at least I didn't post a METAR! :-s
I think this timeline pretty much debunks the hypothesis above.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/28/us/k ... index.html
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Re: Kobe Bryant dead, private Sikorsky S-76 down

#54 Post by Boac » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:48 am

This 'IFR' bit is causing much confusion amongst the media and elsewhere. There was NO intention by the pilot to fly 'IFR' - as someone has pointed out, on this route 'IFR' should have been "I follow roads". Yes, 20/20 hindsight says a true 'IFR' flight would have been safer, but not really useful for what they were trying to do. The pilot set out to stay in visual contact with the the ground and appears to have lost that. The supposition is that he then climbed then (to 2300') which may have been a sort of safety altitude, or maybe was aiming higher, but something happened in that process to cause LOC.

As for TAWS, as tgg said, a bleedin' distraction in low level visual flight.

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Re: Kobe Bryant dead, private Sikorsky S-76 down

#55 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:01 am

Boac wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:48 am
This 'IFR' bit is causing much confusion amongst the media and elsewhere. There was NO intention by the pilot to fly 'IFR' - as someone has pointed out, on this route 'IFR' should have been "I follow roads". Yes, 20/20 hindsight says a true 'IFR' flight would have been safer, but not really useful for what they were trying to do. The pilot set out to stay in visual contact with the the ground and appears to have lost that. The supposition is that he then climbed then (to 2300') which may have been a sort of safety altitude, or maybe was aiming higher, but something happened in that process to cause LOC.
As good a summation of the facts as I have seen anywhere.
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Re: Kobe Bryant dead, private Sikorsky S-76 down

#56 Post by FD2 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:08 am

An interesting visualisation of what was likely to have been happening during the flight and up to the crash, combined with calls to ATC.

I don't think he had a carefully 'planned' route, just a good familiarity with the area and the intention of flying the route visually. As Boac says, there was no intention of flying IFR. Unless the NTSB can find evidence of mechanical problems with the aircraft, in the burnt wreckage, I doubt we'll ever know what happened at the end. A possible clue might come from the condition of the main rotor blades as they separated on impact.

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Re: Kobe Bryant dead, private Sikorsky S-76 down

#57 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:48 am

FD2 wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:08 am
An interesting visualisation of what was likely to have been happening during the flight and up to the crash, combined with calls to ATC.
Truly a fascinating visualization. One can only assume that in the climb some sort of loss of spatial awareness and/or control occurred in cloud and at high power resulting in the rapid vertical descent and collision with the terrain. One cannot of course, exclude medical incapacitation (under stress) and a myriad of other possible cases...

I read this report of how easily such an event might occur even in helicopter perfectly equipped for IFR flight with a very well trained and experienced multi crew set up.

https://www.gov.uk/aaib-reports/aaib-in ... 189-g-mcgr
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Re: Kobe Bryant dead, private Sikorsky S-76 down

#58 Post by FD2 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:09 pm

Talking bollocks. Press report about Twatter user who films 'aggressive circling' 30 minutes before crash. God help us. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/a ... d=12304105

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Re: Kobe Bryant dead, private Sikorsky S-76 down

#59 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:18 pm

FD2 wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:09 pm
Talking bollocks. Press report about Twatter user who films 'aggressive circling' 30 minutes before crash. God help us.
Lyudmirsky said he went outside his house on an otherwise “quiet’’ Sunday because he heard a noise “as loud as thunder — imagine a gang of bikers — overhead.”

He said he started filming the chopper in the sky because he likes to “have a record’’ of things out of the ordinary, in this case, “a huge helicopter, one that doesn’t ever fly that low, one that never circles, it’s just meant to go from point A to point B,” acting “strange.
https://nypost.com/2020/01/28/kobe-brya ... ess-video/

What do they have in the local water to render some people so idiotic...?
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Re: Kobe Bryant dead, private Sikorsky S-76 down

#60 Post by FD2 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:23 pm

Maybe on day release from the local asylum?

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