R44 Hydraulic failure

Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
TheGreenGoblin
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 17596
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:02 pm
Location: With the Water People near Trappist-1

R44 Hydraulic failure

#1 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sun Feb 27, 2022 1:38 am

Part of some of the manouevres practiced yesterday were a number of circuits and run on landings with the hydraulics off, simulating a failure thereof. I was really surprised at how much physical force was needed to centralise the controls in the R44, and the absolute need to reduce speed and fly with gentle turns and a flat approach for the run on landing onto grass, keeping the nose straight with judicious use of the pedals lest one turn, or dig in and roll over thereby ruining the day. It was to clear to me that an aggressive, or steep turn, at too high a speed with failed hydraulics, could put the aircraft beyond the bounds of controllability as has happened in previous R44 training accidents as well as for "real" when the hydraulic system has failed. My right arm now feels like Popeye's. Certainly an eye opener for me.

https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/3899970/a ... _final.pdf

The Americans and Canadians seem determined to land on asphalt for these run on landings. I can see that it might be safer but landing on short grass seemed fine to me.

Though you remain
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."

User avatar
TheGreenGoblin
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 17596
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:02 pm
Location: With the Water People near Trappist-1

Re: R44 Hydraulic failure

#2 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sun Feb 27, 2022 3:53 am

I really rate this guy's training videos...

Great scenery for a simulated engine failure...



Wires and weather.

Though you remain
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."

User avatar
G~Man
Capt
Capt
Posts: 1084
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:16 pm
Location: California on a fire or a sailboat somewhere.
Gender:
Age: 60

Re: R44 Hydraulic failure

#3 Post by G~Man » Sun Feb 27, 2022 5:39 am

Great that you are getting to fly... Given a choice...You should always go to a hard surface, not grass..... way safer.

We do all our hydraulic training to a single spot landing---in the places we operate there may be no where to run it on.... We just finished our annual training in all aircraft, the most extreme Hyd off is my pilots need to demonstrate a Hydraulic failure in the hover at 100 feet in all aircraft.... In the Bell products we con=me straight down vertically, in the Astar we fly away and make an approach.
B-) Life may not be the party you hoped for, but while you're here, you may as well dance. B-)

User avatar
TheGreenGoblin
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 17596
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:02 pm
Location: With the Water People near Trappist-1

Re: R44 Hydraulic failure

#4 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sun Feb 27, 2022 8:13 am

G~Man wrote:
Sun Feb 27, 2022 5:39 am
Great that you are getting to fly... Given a choice...You should always go to a hard surface, not grass..... way safer.

We do all our hydraulic training to a single spot landing---in the places we operate there may be no where to run it on.... We just finished our annual training in all aircraft, the most extreme Hyd off is my pilots need to demonstrate a Hydraulic failure in the hover at 100 feet in all aircraft.... In the Bell products we con=me straight down vertically, in the Astar we fly away and make an approach.
Practised the single spot landing as well with hydraulics on. There is something very satisfying about getting that right.

Do you operate the R44, and if so, do you do the same 100 foot hover hydraulic failure exercise with them? Must admit I would not relish that!

The running landings were all made at between 20 and 30 knots in the face of a 15 knot wind so at a relatively low ground speed. Only concrete or asphalt available is near the pads and fuel pumps so grass it is!
Though you remain
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."

User avatar
CharlieOneSix
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 5004
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2015 12:58 pm
Location: NE Scotland
Gender:
Age: 79

Re: R44 Hydraulic failure

#5 Post by CharlieOneSix » Sun Feb 27, 2022 10:58 am

I don't know the reasons (apart from the rollover risk on grass) but here in the UK it seems that in doing run on landings etc with skid equipped helicopters we prefer grass but in the US/Canada they prefer a hard surface. Maybe in the UK we don't want to wear out the scuff plates? :)) As you say, TGG, sometimes in places like your Headcorn airfield you don't have a choice.

Gordy will be able to answer this I expect - 50 years ago this year I did my Bell 212 conversion with Irish Helicopters at Weston airfield just outside Dublin. We did double hydraulic failures during the course - run ons on grass(!). It was incredibly hard work and apart from getting arms - and legs - like Popeye's as TGG described, it was impossible to raise the collective during a double failure simulation, just downwards only so long shallow approaches were the order of the day as you couldn't use the collective to cushion the landing.

Question - is the 212 still the same or is there now an interlock so you can't switch off both at the same time? I always thought it was a daft and risky thing to be able to simulate.
The helicopter pilots' mantra: If it hasn't gone wrong then it's just about to...
https://www.glenbervie-weather.org

User avatar
G~Man
Capt
Capt
Posts: 1084
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:16 pm
Location: California on a fire or a sailboat somewhere.
Gender:
Age: 60

Re: R44 Hydraulic failure

#6 Post by G~Man » Sun Feb 27, 2022 6:18 pm

CharlieOneSix wrote:
Sun Feb 27, 2022 10:58 am
Question - is the 212 still the same or is there now an interlock so you can't switch off both at the same time? I always thought it was a daft and risky thing to be able to simulate.
Interesting question, I had never thought of that. I just checked the manual and also the manufacturers data
.
1-14. HYDRAULIC SYSTEMS
Two separate hydraulic systems are used to assist cyclic, collective, and antitorque flight controls. Each system contains a reservoir, pump, integrated valve and filter assembly, accumulator, and check valves. Each integrated valve and filter assembly contains a system pressure filter and a system return filter. In event any of these filters becomes partially clogged, a button on filter housing will pop out to give an indication of filter bypass. This button will also activate a switch which will cause a remote hydraulic filter bypass indicator, in lower right area of nose section, to switch from green to red. Remote bypass indicator can be seen on preflight check through lower right nose window. Hydraulic pumps are driven by transmission and have different rated capacities. System 1 pump delivers a greater volume of fluid to operate antitorque flight control servoactuator. Cyclic and collective flight control servoactuators are each powered by both hydraulic systems, such that if either system falls, remaining system will operate servoactuators. Antitorque servoactuator is powered by system 1 only.

1-14-A. HYDRAULIC SYSTEM CONTROLS
HYDR SYS NO. 1 and HYDR SYS NO. 2 switches, located on pedestal, are two position switches labeled OFF and ON. When BHT-212-MD-1 in ON position, hydraulic power is provided to flight control servoactuators and when in OFF position, hydraulic power is removed.


To be honest, I have never tried it as there is no procedure and I cannot think of a time when you would want to try. I asked one of my other pilots who came from another company that has two 212's said that on one you could turn both off and the other you could not. I will try tomorrow on ours as we are training in the morning.

.
PICT0004-HM.JPG
B-) Life may not be the party you hoped for, but while you're here, you may as well dance. B-)

User avatar
TheGreenGoblin
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 17596
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:02 pm
Location: With the Water People near Trappist-1

Re: R44 Hydraulic failure

#7 Post by TheGreenGoblin » Sun Feb 27, 2022 6:48 pm

I dig the pink helicopter... ^:)^
Though you remain
Convinced
"To be alive
You must have somewhere
To go
Your destination remains
Elusive."

User avatar
G~Man
Capt
Capt
Posts: 1084
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:16 pm
Location: California on a fire or a sailboat somewhere.
Gender:
Age: 60

Re: R44 Hydraulic failure

#8 Post by G~Man » Mon Feb 28, 2022 7:01 pm

So, our 212 does NOT have an interlock. There is nothing in the flight manual and we can only come up with one scenario: an extreme leak on a servo that drains both reservoirs which is almost impossible. The 205 has a note not top enter auto with double hydraulic failure--that is it......

FYI---the helicopter is not pink----that was Photoshop t taunt one of my pilots a few years back :D :D :D :D

.
Snapseed (2).jpg
B-) Life may not be the party you hoped for, but while you're here, you may as well dance. B-)

PHXPhlyer
Chief Pilot
Chief Pilot
Posts: 8239
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:56 pm
Location: PHX
Gender:
Age: 69

Re: R44 Hydraulic failure

#9 Post by PHXPhlyer » Mon Feb 28, 2022 7:03 pm

G~Man wrote:
Mon Feb 28, 2022 7:01 pm

FYI---the helicopter is not pink----that was Photoshop t taunt one of my pilots a few years back :D :D :D :D

.Snapseed (2).jpg
And a rather good one at that! :YMAPPLAUSE:

PP

Post Reply