The Robinson Appreciation Thread

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FD2
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Re: The Robinson Appreciation Thread

#21 Post by FD2 » Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:00 pm

Helicopter operators and pilots reject cockpit video camera safety plan

Widespread use of cockpit video cameras could bring significant safety benefits to helicopter flying, but pilots are resisting their use amid concerns they will be watched by employers and authorities.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/131221 ... app-iPhone

Maybe it's about time the CAA got a little firmer with these people. Video recorders should be mandated for public transport work. Private flyers who want privacy in their cockpits can be left to their own devices. :ymdevil:

HUMS and iHUMS monitored many parameters of our public transport helicopters twenty years or more ago and I expect that in the last 18 years since I flew commercially there have been significant improvements in these monitoring systems. As long as any inadvertent over-torques or whatever were treated sensibly, we never felt that big brother was watching. It did calm the over-exuberant handling by one or two cowboys though. :ymcowboy:
I certainly wouldn't want to take over an aircraft from someone who had just grossly over-torqued the transmission and not bothered to report it.

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Re: The Robinson Appreciation Thread

#22 Post by G~Man » Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:30 pm

Crazy..... We embraced cameras where at my place. All the pilots know they are there and that they are not being "monitored" on a daily basis, however, should the need arise, then yes we will monitor. It comes down to the attitude of myour pilots and having a "Just Culture".
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Re: The Robinson Appreciation Thread

#23 Post by TheGreenAnger » Sat Feb 18, 2023 10:27 am

Not helicopter related but indicative of the reluctance of humans to be monitored.

Many years ago I was involved in a telematics project to introduce monitoring, including routes, speed, stops, brake usage and gear ratios used in the cabs etc. of the fuel tanker fleet of a logistics company that delivered fuel on behalf of a French oil company here in the UK. I have never faced so many issues with a rollout, with great resistance by the drivers to the adoption of the technology. I was actually physically threatened by one or two hotheads but management prevailed and the technology usage immediately delivered an 8% reduction in fuel usage, improved delivery times and better maintenance across the fleet. A small number of drivers were found to be abusing the vehicles in that they deviated from routes for personal reasons (one or two marriages were clearly under threat), or were simply driving like lunatics! The clamour died down after a dew months.
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Re: The Robinson Appreciation Thread

#24 Post by OneHungLow » Mon Apr 24, 2023 8:51 pm

Cranking my ruler here in the absence of a collective. Back in a fortnight in a Robinson R44. I feel like Lazarus about to be revived!
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Re: The Robinson Appreciation Thread

#25 Post by OneHungLow » Sat Sep 16, 2023 11:28 am




https://www.montereyherald.com/2009/03/ ... tham-dies/

Pointed out to me by somebody who knew Jim Cheatham and his civilian display team.
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Re: The Robinson Appreciation Thread

#26 Post by FD2 » Sat Sep 16, 2023 8:07 pm

Great display - my heart was in my mouth.

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Re: The Robinson Appreciation Thread

#27 Post by Karearea » Sat Sep 16, 2023 8:10 pm

Aerial ballet...
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Re: The Robinson Appreciation Thread

#28 Post by CharlieOneSix » Sat Sep 16, 2023 8:57 pm

FD2 wrote:
Sat Sep 16, 2023 8:07 pm
Great display - my heart was in my mouth.
Likewise! It does seem amazing what some folk get away with in Robinsons - look at this cattle mustering video. I certainly wouldn't want to fly that after he'd finished with it. One of the comments below the video is possibly very apt.....Epitaph: It was a short, but fun life. No one expected the crash that claimed him..."

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Re: The Robinson Appreciation Thread

#29 Post by FD2 » Sat Sep 16, 2023 9:58 pm

Good God! Plus 1...a wonder it stayed together in the air.

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Re: The Robinson Appreciation Thread

#30 Post by CharlieOneSix » Sun Sep 17, 2023 8:41 am

......and as Freddie would say, another one bites the dust.....Whangaroa, New Zealand today:

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/345628
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Re: The Robinson Appreciation Thread

#31 Post by OneHungLow » Sun Sep 17, 2023 8:54 am

CharlieOneSix wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2023 8:41 am
......and as Freddie would say, another one bites the dust.....Whangaroa, New Zealand today:

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/345628
Not so much the fault of helicopter as the pilot methinks... (much the same as the cowboy abusing the R22 above).
Among those who saw the crash was a gathering of Vietnam veterans, one of whom - a former Navy serviceman who wanted to be known only as Charlie - had watched the helicopter lift off in what he considered an unconventional manner.

With 21 years of service, Charlie said he had watched helicopters landing and leaving ships for years. He watched the helicopter make a long turn to face across the harbour and into the wind. The faster route - and safer in his view - was the short turn which would have involved a 90-degree turn.

“He tried to spin it around and I thought, ‘This is a problem’. It was a show-off manoeuvre. He came down arse-end first.
That said, the logic espoused in the report by the journalist above leaves me confused (not for the first time I must admit)! Spinning it around doesn't seem to imply a long turn. I fancy what was said by Charlie was mangled by the journalist.

I am sure Charlie was right (as they always are, ain't that so C16?) ;)))

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/emergency ... VDJWEITFA/
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Re: The Robinson Appreciation Thread

#32 Post by FD2 » Mon Sep 18, 2023 7:53 pm

He took off 90 degrees out of the very slack wind but elected to turn 270 degrees into the wind, that Charlie noted seemed odd and maybe unnecessary. During the hover turn the wind blew up or he was just horsing it round too fast and ran out of tail rotor control (as George noted when it was doing its 'take off thing') and it ended up on its 'arse' (marvelous Charlie!) before turning over after contacting the ground. Luckily he'd stopped its 'engines'. Pilot either trollied 8-} or just too embarrassed to speak :ymblushing: after making a spectacle of himself.

We've driven through Whangaroa - it's north of Kerikeri - pretty, and the place is full of big game fishing boats which go out to catch tuna, marlin, wahoo etc. But where did FOUR cop cars come from in such a remote place? I suspect it was much more exciting than attending the usual 'domestics'. :D

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Re: The Robinson Appreciation Thread

#33 Post by OneHungLow » Tue Sep 19, 2023 5:51 am

FD2 wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2023 7:53 pm
He took off 90 degrees out of the very slack wind but elected to turn 270 degrees into the wind, that Charlie noted seemed odd and maybe unnecessary. During the hover turn the wind blew up or he was just horsing it round too fast and ran out of tail rotor control (as George noted when it was doing its 'take off thing') and it ended up on its 'arse' (marvelous Charlie!) before turning over after contacting the ground. Luckily he'd stopped its 'engines'. Pilot either trollied 8-} or just too embarrassed to speak :ymblushing: after making a spectacle of himself.

We've driven through Whangaroa - it's north of Kerikeri - pretty, and the place is full of big game fishing boats which go out to catch tuna, marlin, wahoo etc. But where did FOUR cop cars come from in such a remote place? I suspect it was much more exciting than attending the usual 'domestics'. :D
Ah, it makes sense now you put it that way FD2. He decided to pedal around, hover turning, going the long way around to get into wind, perhaps showing off, or was unlucky with the wind, lost control, came on his arse and made an ass of himself, and probably wrote the helicopter off.
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Re: The Robinson Appreciation Thread

#34 Post by FD2 » Tue Sep 19, 2023 11:14 am

Sunny day, mid-afternoon, old guys standing round watching the take off and wallop, it bites the dust. Great entertainment and a local conversation point for months. I'm impressed by the fact that the main rotor blades stayed intact so no one was injured by flying shrapnel, but it would have been different on a hard surface.

When you see what the aircraft is capable of in the right hands it makes you question that maybe there should be an 'experience qualification' for flying it, but that's just wishful thinking as it would be too hard to enforce.

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Re: The Robinson Appreciation Thread

#35 Post by OneHungLow » Tue Sep 19, 2023 1:36 pm

FD2 wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2023 11:14 am
When you see what the aircraft is capable of in the right hands it makes you question that maybe there should be an 'experience qualification' for flying it, but that's just wishful thinking as it would be too hard to enforce.
Your astute comment gets to the nub of the 'raison d'etre' for the R22. It was never designed to be a trainer but was intended by Frank Robinson to be marketed as a means for experienced pilots, like the then thousands of very skilled experienced demobbed ex-Vietnam pilots, to keep their hours up and skills honed relatively inexpensively. The latter financial point resulting in the aircraft, despite its initial travails, becoming a popular trainer and thus thereby falling into the hands of low hours PPL's who quite simply should not have been flying the aircraft!

The R44 is more of a suitable training aircraft but finds itself being tarred and feathered as a result of the somewhat gory early record of the R22 in the hands of relatively inexperienced pilots. Lots of changes in training, limitations and in the aircraft itself means that the R22 is a useful trainer these days but needs to handled sensibly

A bit more on the history of the R22 here (warts and early aircraft issues, like the blades problems, and all).

https://www.heli-archive.ch/en/helicopt ... obinson-22


The R22 is the most popular training helicopter in use in UK schools because of its low cost per flight hour, typically around £330. However, the R22 was never designed by Frank Robinson as a basic trainer and has a number of flight characteristics that can take a while to master. The primary of these is its low inertia rotor head.

Loss of rotor RPM is a major safety risk in helicopter flight and the cause of many accidents. Having a low inertia rotor system is no problem in powered flight as long as the governor / throttle is managed properly, however, it makes the R22 harder to fly in autorotation where management of the rotor RPM is crucial for a safe outcome. Learning this skill takes time and can take a fair amount longer in an R22 compared to other aircraft.
https://helifly.co.uk/which-helicopter- ... 0accidents.
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