F-35

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ExSp33db1rd
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F-35

#1 Post by ExSp33db1rd » Fri May 11, 2018 5:22 am

Friend has just sent me this video of the F-35

https://www.chonday.com/30437/tacompft6/

Question - what is the purpose of that huge door behind the cockpit ? If it is related to vertical thrust operation, why is it also open on the shot of a take off from a carrier, at 0.11 secs. into the video.

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Re: F-35

#2 Post by Boac » Fri May 11, 2018 6:50 am

The barn door is the intake for the vertical thrust engine. The shot you refer to is, I think, a 'non-Catapult' launch, thus needing an engine vertical lift component due to the lower end-of-deck speed. It is closed on the 'conventional' take-off views.

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Re: F-35

#3 Post by Cacophonix » Fri May 11, 2018 7:03 am

ExSp33db1rd wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 5:22 am
Friend has just sent me this video of the F-35

https://www.chonday.com/30437/tacompft6/

Question - what is the purpose of that huge door behind the cockpit ? If it is related to vertical thrust operation, why is it also open on the shot of a take off from a carrier, at 0.11 secs. into the video.

That the F-35B version of the aircraft ExSp33db1rd and the "huge door" is the cowling for the 50 inch Titanium lift fan. The fan is only used in vertical flight mode and the cowling closes to protect the fan one in normal flight and to reduce the radar cross section of the aircraft.

Lift fan cover.png
Lift fan cover.png (257.52 KiB) Viewed 908 times

The F-35B lift fan is not used in any other flight profile unlike the Harrier whose genius was to ensure that no main thrust producer sat as dead weight in normal flight mode.



The engine itself is a marvel mind as I found when I bored the Rolls-Royce representative with my questions at one of the trade days at the last Farnborough airshow.

F-35B lift.JPG
F-35B lift.JPG (69.16 KiB) Viewed 903 times

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_LiftSystem

PS - I see that an actual bloody Harrier pilot has had the temerity to answer your question before me! Sneaky buggers those Harrier types! ;))) Clearly they are lighter, more agile and get the mission done quicker because they carry less dead weight! =))

Just kidding Boac!

Caco

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Re: F-35

#4 Post by Sisemen » Fri May 11, 2018 8:13 am

Fair do’s - the casing will make a nice BBQ or incinerator.

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Re: F-35

#5 Post by Boac » Fri May 11, 2018 8:31 am

Best not to forget to close the sunroof after take-off, though B-)

Caco - your visit to RR at Farnborough must have been fascinating. As you say, there is a lot of 'dead-weight' in there with that transmission shaft, unlike the BonaJet where the dead-weight was only the pilot :))

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Re: F-35

#6 Post by ExSp33db1rd » Fri May 11, 2018 10:22 am

Thanks guys, I guess I could have googled for myself, but it's easier to ask them wot know !

The carrier take off threw me, with that massive drag producing door open. I guess there must be a V do - Max Speed Door Open, otherwise there would be a loud graunching sound fairly soon after take off ? and also an Action In The Event Of Door Closure Failure checkllst ?

I'll stick to Microlights.

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Re: F-35

#7 Post by Cacophonix » Fri May 11, 2018 10:32 am

Boac wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 8:31 am
Best not to forget to close the sunroof after take-off, though B-)

Caco - your visit to RR at Farnborough must have been fascinating. As you say, there is a lot of 'dead-weight' in there with that transmission shaft, unlike the BonaJet where the dead-weight was only the pilot :))
Twas indeed Boac.

https://www.rolls-royce.com/innovation/liftsystem.aspx

Of course Rolls-Royce are responsible for the LiftSystem and Pratt and Whitney for the F135 main engine and nary a word about that engine in my discussions. The F135 is a derivative of the F119 used in the F22 fighter and a lot of the details are not for public consumption apparently (not surprisngly) but I found the Rolls-Royce folks pretty open, patient and invariably courteous.

http://www.pw.utc.com/F119_Engine

As for the dead-weight in the Harrier, I think that most of that could be called active brain weight and methinks that the F-35 could do with a lot more of that than the very ambitious computer systems that are the cause of many of the aicraft's current travails!

On a more social level I have two friends (both total English eccentrics) who work at Martin-Baker near Denham, who have been promising me a visit to their HQ. Having read here that you have had to accord yourself of use of a piece of their fine equipment I was wondering if you have ever done the tour?

Caco

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Re: F-35

#8 Post by Boac » Fri May 11, 2018 4:42 pm

Indeed I have, and had a great, interesting time meeting all those who worked on the seats and thanking them. I'm sure that sort of visit is a great boost to shop-floor morale. I was presented with a tankard and MB tie as well as fed and watered! I was also the first to use the ?Pye? PLB voice beacon in anger (I spoke to my US Marine wing-man on it, who was much relieved having seen me dive into low stratus followed by a fireball!). Yet another factory tour, tie, w.h.y.

A 'tale' of my seat for those interested. The MDC in the canopy, designed to break it on ejection, malfunctioned and fired mainly downwards onto my head, spattering lead plasma onto the oxy mask which 'bounced' up into my eyes. No real damage due to the particle size, but a party-like 'sparkle' to my eyeballs from the re-solidified lead casing....(had to be picked out by a medic with a needle.....oh yes!!)

Many years later I yearned for my seat (remembering a Luftwaffe pilot who had had his mounted on a base on a big tractor spring - so he could 'rock' gently on it with a stein of the finest in hand. Post Falkands, at retirement, I tracked it down in store at Farnborough, bent and battered after its 'flight' through the German pine forest (followed by me...) and 'reserved' for 'training', but probably destined to just rot there. Judicious enterprise in paperwork, ***** and bravado enabled me to drive into the Farnborough base and 'withdraw' the seat (sparing no horses on the exit :)) ). It followed me round in civvy life for many years always 'about to be done' (and not light!! - the removal men loved it....) when I donated it (with 'provenance') to a disabled young lady aviation nut whose ?uncle? had provided her with all sorts of bits of history. They drove to my home from Yorkshire and it is now being much better used. I still have the seat handle and cartridges, kindly mounted by the Gutersloh armoury (in part-exchange for a crate of Warsteiner :)) ) and it sits on my window sill now, to my right as I type.

The whole accident and aftermath had several amusing anecdotes attached.

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Re: F-35

#9 Post by Boac » Fri May 11, 2018 4:45 pm

Exsp wrote:with that massive drag producing door open
- I don't know about the 35, but I guess you are 'off the end' at 60-80kts, so not TOO much drag. Harrier STO speed was around the 60kts. 'rotate'. Just enough for some Bernouilli. :-bd

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Re: F-35

#10 Post by Cacophonix » Fri May 11, 2018 6:11 pm

Boac wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 4:42 pm
Indeed I have, and had a great, interesting time meeting all those who worked on the seats and thanking them. I'm sure that sort of visit is a great boost to shop-floor morale. I was presented with a tankard and MB tie as well as fed and watered! I was also the first to use the ?Pye? PLB voice beacon in anger (I spoke to my US Marine wing-man on it, who was much relieved having seen me dive into low stratus followed by a fireball!). Yet another factory tour, tie, w.h.y.

A 'tale' of my seat for those interested. The MDC in the canopy, designed to break it on ejection, malfunctioned and fired mainly downwards onto my head, spattering lead plasma onto the oxy mask which 'bounced' up into my eyes. No real damage due to the particle size, but a party-like 'sparkle' to my eyeballs from the re-solidified lead casing....(had to be picked out by a medic with a needle.....oh yes!!)

Many years later I yearned for my seat (remembering a Luftwaffe pilot who had had his mounted on a base on a big tractor spring - so he could 'rock' gently on it with a stein of the finest in hand. Post Falkands, at retirement, I tracked it down in store at Farnborough, bent and battered after its 'flight' through the German pine forest (followed by me...) and 'reserved' for 'training', but probably destined to just rot there. Judicious enterprise in paperwork, ***** and bravado enabled me to drive into the Farnborough base and 'withdraw' the seat (sparing no horses on the exit :)) ). It followed me round in civvy life for many years always 'about to be done' (and not light!! - the removal men loved it....) when I donated it (with 'provenance') to a disabled young lady aviation nut whose ?uncle? had provided her with all sorts of bits of history. They drove to my home from Yorkshire and it is now being much better used. I still have the seat handle and cartridges, kindly mounted by the Gutersloh armoury (in part-exchange for a crate of Warsteiner :)) ) and it sits on my window sill now, to my right as I type.

The whole accident and aftermath had several amusing anecdotes attached.
Great story and much appreciated Boac. As for the eye contamination that was the cherry on the ***** cake that was your day that day, I can relate by proxy, as it were, having watched my better half have metal particles removed from her eyes with a needle and the sight of it made my eyes smart, never mind hers.

You are a good chap for donating your seat to such a cause and thereby making a lady very happy. I trust you have committed your story to a less ephemeral medium than the tinterweb for posterity. I suspect we haven't heard the half of it.

:-bd

Caco

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Re: F-35

#11 Post by Woody » Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:59 pm

When all else fails, read the instructions.

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Re: F-35

#12 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:52 pm

First F-35 just crashed near MCAS Beaufort, SC - USMC pilot ejected, condition unknown but nobody sounds panicked. Cause unknown.

Image

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Re: F-35

#13 Post by Cacophonix » Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:15 am

Meanwhile, largely unheralded, a British F-35B made the first jet landing (and take off ) on the new carrier HMS Queen Elizabeth. Something positive to report on after the brawl earlier this month.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... izzie.html

Jollly Jack Tars getting wasted and brawling! Who would have think it! =))

Two fighter jets, U.S.-made F-35 Joint Strike Fighters, sit waiting to race down the ship’s runway. Unlike American aircraft carriers, which use catapults to launch their warplanes, the Queen Elizabeth has a large ramp — called a ski jump — to help heavy, bomb-laden aircraft leap from the flight deck.

“We’ve come across to the eastern seaboard of the United States to conduct the first developmental test trials with the F-35B,” said Commodore Andrew Betton, commander of the U.K.’s Carrier Strike Group. “It’s the first time, anywhere in the world, that we’ve brought together a fifth-gen fighter with a fifth-gen aircraft carrier. So designed and built from the keel up to support these fifth-gen jets.”
The goal of these F-35 tests is “to establish the initial operating envelope that will let us move forward into operational test next year and thereafter into our first planned operational deployment in 2021,” Betton said.
This week’s tests mark the first time the F-35, or any fighter jet for that matter, have flown from the Queen Elizabeth. Its flight deck has previously played host only to helicopters, like the Merlin AW101s that flew a dozen reporters to the ship as it sailed off New Jersey.

“So this is marrying up the jet with the carrier, because we have not flown the jet from the carrier yet,” said Air Vice-Marshal Harv Smyth, the commanding officer of Number 1 Group, the Royal Air Force headquarters that oversees jet fighters.

“Once we get flight envelope established, that’s the basic aim of this deployment,” said Cmdr. Nath Gray, the Royal Navy test pilot who landed an F-35 on Queen Elizabeth for the first time this week.

“The aircraft handled as expected,” he said. “The interaction between the aircraft and the ship was exactly as expected as we’ve simulated thousands and thousands of times before. And landing on board. There were no surprises. All of the leg work, all of the analysis prior, has all paid off so far.”

These tests that will continue in the coming weeks off the coast of United States are a big deal for the U.K. military. For one, the U.K. has not flown fighter jets from one of its own carriers in about eight years. These tests bring them one step closer to reconstituting a carrier force that can project military power around the world.

“We’re trying to take every opportunity we can to expand our carrier strike group muscle memory,” Betton said. “We used to do this a lot in the U.K. We’ve had a bit of a gap and we’re getting back into the carrier strike business.”
The U.K. retired its Harrier jump jets, known for their ability to take off and land vertically, in 2010, leaving its military without ship-deployable planes.

“We are taking big steps back into that game again,” said Rear Adm. Keith Blount, the head of Royal Navy aviation. “It’s hugely exciting and it should be reassuring to those back home and indeed on this side of the Atlantic.”
The Queen Elizabeth is the largest ship ever operated by the Royal Navy. Something unique about the ship: it has two islands, the forward one for driving the ship and the aft for air traffic control. Both are built around exhaust pipes from the ship’s engines below deck.

The sailors on this sparkling-clean ship walk around with pride. Upon stepping off the flight deck, visitors are greeted by a large banner over a stairwell that reads: “Welcome to Britain’s Conventional Deterrent.”
“The U.S. have 11 carriers, we’ll bring two more, to the good guys,” said Capt. Jerry Kyd, the ship’s commanding officer. “That’s how we’re seeing it.”
https://www.defenseone.com/business/201 ... me/151660/



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Re: F-35

#14 Post by Ex-Ascot » Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:07 am

This is all great news but couldn't help smiling at this:
The sailors on this sparkling-clean ship walk stagger around with pride.
Are we going to have Royal Air Force pilots on board or just Fleet Air Arm?
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Re: F-35

#15 Post by CharlieOneSix » Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:27 am

There will most certainly be Royal Air Force pilots on board, both for the F35 and the Chinooks. A senior RAF officer is commenting from on board at 1:13 in this video.

.
and here
.
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Re: F-35

#16 Post by Ex-Ascot » Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:41 am

Thanks C16 unfortunately Internet here too slow for video but I believe you!
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Re: F-35

#17 Post by CharlieOneSix » Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:03 pm

Ex-Ascot - the Wing Commander in the second video was saying that the blending of the two Services was going to be very easy. 17 and 617 Squadrons have a 50/50 split of RAF and FAA and he said that walking round the Squadrons you wouldn't know who was FAA and who was RAF. It is the Lightning Force. He said he was looking forward to the end of 2018 when 17 Squadron would be carrying out trials on HMS Queen Elizabeth.

809 Naval Air Squadron will be the first FAA F35 Squadron. The squadron will operate alongside 617 Squadron of the Royal Air Force, and will be stationed at RAF Marham when not deployed aboard one of the Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carriers. It will consist of both Royal Navy and Royal Air Force personnel.
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Re: F-35

#18 Post by Ex-Ascot » Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:40 pm

Thank you C16. Very interesting. We have always had a very good working relationship with you guys. Had many good piss ups on your ships. I trained with two of your Sea Harrier pilots and went to University with a bunch of Royal Navy officers. Still do not understand the pongs though. Got a good friend who is very senior officer but why do the junior officers have to ask a WO what to do? Once went back to speak the the Capt in charge of the bunch, said we had to divert due to weather, gave him a choice. He had to ask his WO. Excuse me! Who is in charge? Well me obviously, but trying to please our Club Class passengers. He had no idea where they were going.
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Re: F-35

#19 Post by Woody » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:44 pm

Not going very well for the money :-o

The US military has temporarily grounded its entire fleet of F-35 fighter jets in the wake of a crash in South Carolina last month.
Inspections are to be carried out on faulty fuel tubes.
An official report questioned earlier this year whether the F-35 was ready for combat after dozens of faults were found.
The F-35 is the largest and most expensive weapons programme of its type in the world.
The programme is expected to last several decades and global sales are projected to be 3,000. The US government's accountability office estimates all costs associated with the project will amount to one trillion dollars.
In a statement, the F-35 Joint Program Office said the US and its international partners had suspended flight operations while a fleet-wide inspection of fuel tubes was conducted.
"If suspect fuel tubes are installed, the part will be removed and replaced. If known good fuel tubes are already installed, then those aircraft will be returned to flight status.
"Inspections are expected to be completed within the next 24 to 48 hours."
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Re: F-35

#20 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:27 am

Depends on your point of view. For Lockheed Martin, the primary mission of the F-35 is to make money for Lockheed Martin.

It's doing wonderfully. LMT was $73 when the prototype first flew, it's $326 now, 12 years later. By comparison, the Dow Jones Index has gone from the equivalent of $73 to $166 in the same time.

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