MFTS - Another "success" story?

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Re: MFTS - Another "success" story?

#21 Post by Pontius Navigator » Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:50 am

Air Commodores are the perfect example of the Peter Principle as I think they are the only rank in the RAF where you are promoted or out.

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Re: MFTS - Another "success" story?

#22 Post by Cacophonix » Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:21 am

Sub-contracting RAF training to civilian outfits, to death, literally... even the ETPS has been corrupted.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... -alex-parr

http://www.etps.qinetiq.com/Pages/default.aspx

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Re: MFTS - Another "success" story?

#23 Post by Cacophonix » Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:40 am

Primary RAF trainer but not certified for flight over water in the UK! Forgive me, but when I last flew by RAF Valley there was a lot of water around it including the sea on one approach.

74347324-D3AB-4BB7-B59BF37774308BE3_600xauto.jpg
74347324-D3AB-4BB7-B59BF37774308BE3_600xauto.jpg (47.72 KiB) Viewed 402 times

https://www.raf.mod.uk/aircraft/texan-t-mk1/
ROLE
The Beechcraft Texan T MK1 will take over the basic fast jet training role currently fulfilled by the Tucano T.Mk 1. Students will progress onto the aircraft from the Prefect and move forwards to the Hawk T2.

CAPABILITY
Continuing the precedent set by the Tucano for employing a tandem-seat turboprop basic trainer, the Texan II replaces the analogue cockpit of the earlier machine with a digital glass cockpit featuring modern avionics. The aircraft’s mission system is capable of generating simulated air-to-air targets and scoring against the release of simulated air-to-ground ordnance

TYPE HISTORY
Under Raytheon ownership, Beech developed the T-6A Texan II from the Pilatus PC-9, in response to the long-running US Joint Primary Aircraft Training System (JPATS) requirement to replace the Cessna T-37. After reworking a Pilatus-supplied airframe, Beech flew a production standard Texan II, known then as the Beech Mk II, for the first time in December 1992. On June 22, 1995, Beech was announced the winner of the JPATS competition and the Texan II began re-equipping USAF flying training squadrons in May 2000.

The Texan II name recalls the North American T-6 Texan of World War II, a type used extensively by the RAF and Royal Canadian Air Force as the Harvard. When the T-6A-1 was developed as the CT-156 for the NATO Flying Training in Canada programme, it was appropriately named Harvard II. Subsequent variants include the T-6B for the US Navy and T-6C export version.

Chosen to supply a Tucano replacement under UK MFTS, Affinity is sourcing ten T-6C Texan II aircraft from Beechcraft, which is now a Textron company. The first aircraft built against the order completed its maiden flight in May and visited the UK to appear at the Royal International Air Tattoo in July.

The Texan T MK1 will be stationed at RAF Valley alongside the Hawk T2. Training on the new turboprop is expected to begin early in 2019.
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Re: MFTS - Another "success" story?

#24 Post by Pontius Navigator » Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:42 am

I wonder what is the background of the managers of these cuckoo outfits. (That is autocorrect for you, I typed civilian, but sometimes autocorrect gets it right).

Or is it a case of the MOD Box budgeteers moving the goal posts. Have seen that in other long let contracts where the MOD can't afford year 2 payments etc.

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Re: MFTS - Another "success" story?

#25 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:49 am

Some interesting comments here.
Worth remembering that the RAF had some training cock ups of its own. I knew the Group Captain who was responsible for junior pilot postings at one point. He told me the RAF recruiting had always been out of sync with requirements since 1918, on roughly a 7 year cycle. He reckoned this was a function of the time people in charge were in post, roughly about a third of that.
And of course the rush to train pilots in the mid '80s - I was one of them - meant that some highly unsuitable instructors were used. I and 19 others were almost killed by one IOT flight commander, who was a recovering alcoholic (allegedly), and my own flight commander (with whom I did not get on*) was court marshaled and dismissed the Service 2 years later for theft.

*In the same way that Sunni and Shia don't get on ;)))

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Re: MFTS - Another "success" story?

#26 Post by Pontius Navigator » Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:46 pm

Fox3, I had my share of disagreeable bosses, one got short toured off a sunshine posting.

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Re: MFTS - Another "success" story?

#27 Post by Sisemen » Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:23 pm

I and 19 others were almost killed by one IOT flight commander, who was a recovering alcoholic (allegedly), and my own flight commander (with whom I did not get on*) was court marshaled and dismissed the Service 2 years later for theft.

Ah well, that lets me off! I left Cranditz in 84 on promotion and was never court martialled :D

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Re: MFTS - Another "success" story?

#28 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:14 pm

You may know who I'm on about then, as I started IOT in August 1984. 'D' Sqn IOT.
By allegedly, I mean that he was an alcoholic, but only allegedly recovering ;)))
My flight commander wanted me thrown out of the RAF with no recourse, and gave me more nights on restrictions than anyone had ever heard of*, but it was me that had got the 21 of us out of the near-death situation at the end of the course, so that was my Get Out Of Jail Free card and I graduated first time.

*Unfairly. But then I would say that, wouldn't I? ;)))
I've been on parade outside CHOM more times than the bloody Central Band.

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Re: MFTS - Another "success" story?

#29 Post by Pontius Navigator » Wed Mar 06, 2019 4:47 pm

Fox, we had one cadet. Hodges I think, in 1961 who they would have had to recourse to get all his restrictions in. Must have been GD/P, never saw him again.

Only ever met one pilot from our IOT that I remember, 20 years later. Knob then still a knob.

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Re: MFTS - Another "success" story?

#30 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:10 pm

On the subject of lower standards, I think 2/3 of our IOT course would cheerfully have chopped the other 1/3, however after recourses I think only about 5% were chopped.
I still remember one whining git from our sister flight, normally about 50 yards from ours, complaining "Why? Why Me?" whenever he was asked to do anything. A supplier, as 4mastacker mentioned earlier, and with a high-pitched Mancunian accent his voice carried.

I later worked with someone who had been a recourse squadron instructor, and was persuaded that they could do a lot with the people they received. The initial failure cured the arrogance or laziness that had caused quite a few to fail, and they responded well second time around.

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Re: MFTS - Another "success" story?

#31 Post by Pontius Navigator » Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:24 pm

One manning regulator that was used in 70s and 80s was redundancy. With wholesale withdrawal of fleets many aircrew opted for or were made redundant. I think the transport fleets suffered the largest cuts with fast jet and fast jet capable aircrew exempt.

It is the fast jet fleet now where the seats have disappeared and the system choice is let experienced guys go or out new aircrew into holding posts.

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Re: MFTS - Another "success" story?

#32 Post by Cacophonix » Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:55 pm

Sisemen wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:23 pm
I and 19 others were almost killed by one IOT flight commander, who was a recovering alcoholic (allegedly), and my own flight commander (with whom I did not get on*) was court marshaled and dismissed the Service 2 years later for theft.

Ah well, that lets me off! I left Cranditz in 84 on promotion and was never court martialled :D
Unmöglich! ;)))

Just because you salute them doesn't mean that they don't want, or, may contrive, to kill you or cause you to be killed!

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Re: MFTS - Another "success" story?

#33 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:12 am

Oh, the instructor responsible would have died too. We were lost somewhere on Salisbury Plain in peasoup fog, midwinter, approaching sunset, when he suddenly remembered there were 400 armoured vehicles about to drive across it. No radio, nowhere to hide, nothing.

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Re: MFTS - Another "success" story?

#34 Post by Sisemen » Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:22 am

You may know who I'm on about then, as I started IOT in August 1984. 'D' Sqn IOT.

D Sqn? That explains it all :D

I was up to my ears on R Sqn. Originally I was a flt cdr on A and then, along with a couple of other flt cdrs, devised, trialled and then ran the new R Sqn concept. It was a fairly gruelling time as we had back-to-back courses from then on until I was posted. Never had leave for a whole 12 months! Mind you, I wasn’t complaining too much as the first 3 weeks of each R Sqn intake was spent bashing the hills at Grantown on Spey. Did cost me my first marriage though.

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Re: MFTS - Another "success" story?

#35 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:42 am

Well, good on you! The new R Sqn concept worked, by all accounts.

Leave? What's Leave?
We had the nominal 6 weeks on the frontline, but were always undermanned, which cut it down to 5 tops due to NATO alert requirements. Any course you went on meant you lost that much leave. I don't recall getting more than 3 weeks in any year. We usually had QRA over Xmas Grant. Then of course Saddam decided HMG wasn't f#cking us around enough so he chipped in as well. To be fair to our squadron execs, we were given 'gardening leave' as often as possible, especially when night flying which was much more predictable, but you had to stay home in case of an alert.

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Re: MFTS - Another "success" story?

#36 Post by k3k3 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:53 pm

When I was at Brüggen in the mid-seventies all ranks had a 42 day leave entitlement, that's good I thought until I was told that policy dictated no more than 10% of people on leave at any one time. When I pointed out that there were not enough days in the year I found myself on an unusual number of station duties.

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Re: MFTS - Another "success" story?

#37 Post by Pontius Navigator » Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:25 pm

I think I always managed my 7 weeks though the accused annual plus disembarcation leave was a problem once. Spent 4 weeks driving home then to work for a couple of tasks but promised I would get the balance. The unit went on block leave in August and I had just enough leave to bridge two trips to Cyprus.

Boss didn't like it but I got LOA and met future Mrs PN.

Later, another sqn agreed we could have 3 weeks (21 days inc l weekends) for summer as we needed the extra time to get out of Scotland. One lucky crew drew the October slot.

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Re: MFTS - Another "success" story?

#38 Post by Undried Plum » Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:51 pm

IOT in August 1984. 'D' Sqn IOT.

A dozen years before you, D Sqn was for the special needs kids.

They did throw the best parties though, and had the knack of procuring good totty in bulk (bulk numbers that is, not dimensionally). Theirs was the only group who had any non-Scots who understood Malt Whisky.

They also put together quite a creditable formation display team of MGBs. They drove the WO to apoplexy, which was worthwhile. Their four-ship high-speed run and break with the exhaust pipes disconnected was a joy to behold!

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Re: MFTS - Another "success" story?

#39 Post by Pontius Navigator » Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:57 pm

Drove passed the EFTS this morning a hive of activity. Stadium lights on, all aircraft lined up, refueller on the 2nd from one end.

10am, CAVOK, and no sign of anyone commiting aviation.

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Re: MFTS - Another "success" story?

#40 Post by Fox3WheresMyBanana » Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:27 pm

I am not Special Needs!

I'm just special.
My carer says so.
As do both the clinical psychiatrists.
In fact I'm so special I get my food cut up for me, so I don't need to be given a knife at mealtimes.

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