MFTS - Another "success" story?

[4mastacker]

I mistakenly put this in the 'Military Nostalgia' thread.

The BBC have picked up that the Flying Training contract might be "under-performing". So that's promotions and knighthoods all round for those responsible.

MFTS - how not to train aircrew

[Cacophonix]

I mistakenly put this in the 'Military Nostalgia' thread.

The BBC have picked up that the Flying Training contract might be "under-performing". So that's promotions and knighthoods all round for those responsible.

MFTS - how not to train aircrew

Ferry companies without ferries, carriers without aircraft, failing training schemes... the list goes on and on...

File on 4 has also discovered the MoD is paying Ascent for "phantom" courses, which never actually take place, because the contract says courses must be completed on time. At the same time, millions of pounds are being spent sending pilots to private flying schools to do their helicopter and multi-engine aircraft training.

A spokesperson for the MoD says there are reasons when it's decided not to run a course. If these are attributable to Ascent then they are not paid, the spokesperson said. However, "should the reasons be related to the MoD, then it is designated as 'zero loaded' and Ascent are paid as if the course had run as normal".

Cue hollow laugh...

The MoD admitted the number of holding officers is greater than they would expect, but said it was normal for people to be put 'on hold' before flying training, and insisted all aircrew fulfilled essential roles to expand their skills in other areas of the job.

"The Military Flying Training System is the biggest transformation of UK military aircrew training in a generation that, when fully complete, will deliver a world-class training system across pilot and aircrew pipelines," a spokesman said.

"The transition to the MFTS is well underway, with student aircrew beginning training and throughput increasing as the new aircraft, simulators and other state of the art training aids bed in."

File on 4's 'Winging it?' is on BBC Radio 4 on Tuesday 5 March at 20:00 GMT and available afterwards on BBC Sounds.

Will listen, thanks for pointing this one out 4mastacker.

Caco

[Sisemen]

Unfortunately it’s the feckwits that we trained at Cranwell in the mid 80s that rose to the top and are making these decisions.

Where’s the emoji for slapping yourself on the forehead in exasperation?

[Cacophonix]

Some former officers like Matt Kitson have left the armed forces altogether rather than wait years to complete their training and gain their wings.

"The most frustrating part was to be sent to a squadron with no set date of when you're starting," he said.

"It was just 'oh, it will be in six months', then that six months became maybe nine months and then that became a year. So with no set date you've got a lot of highly motivated guys. It's frustrating."

After spending two years in jobs such as being a careers adviser, he gave up his own military career to become a commercial airline pilot.

Conservative MP Dr Julian Lewis, chair of the Commons Defence Committee, said he would write to the Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson for an explanation in the light of the BBC's findings.

"The idea that somebody might be waiting until their late 20s until they graduate as a fully-fledged RAF fast-jet pilot is clearly ridiculous, unacceptable and will have to be resolved speedily," he said.

Surely Mr Kitson's advice as a career's advisor waiting in such ludicrous circumstances would have been "don't join the RAF".

What a total ****!


Caco

[Pontius Navigator]

The MoD admitted the number of holding officers is greater than they would expect, but said it was normal for people to be put 'on hold' before flying training,

Balderdash.

I had two weeks leave between each of my first 3 courses and probably lost some leave. My 4th course was after a gap of 5 weeks. My receiving unit said 'go away', my previous unit went ballistic as we should have gone back to them. They had not told us and we had changed Commands too. There was an extra two week gap before my OCU so I volunteered to go fly for the 10 days. After the OCU it was straight to the sqn.

Pretty clearly no one is sitting at Air Ministry with a massive flow chart.

Oh forgot, no Air Ministry, no Air Secs Department, no hope.

[Pontius Navigator]

When I did my resettlement courses we had a retiring Army recruiting SNCO, real twittered and bistered, who couldn't wait to get out. The lecturer said didn't it strike him as duplicitous trying to recruit soldiers to an organization he couldn't wait to leave

[4mastacker]

Unfortunately it’s the feckwits that we trained at Cranwell in the mid 80s that rose to the top and are making these decisions.

Where’s the emoji for slapping yourself on the forehead in exasperation?

You mean you had to train them to become feckwits???

[Sisemen]

Unfortunately it’s the feckwits that we trained at Cranwell in the mid 80s that rose to the top and are making these decisions.

Where’s the emoji for slapping yourself on the forehead in exasperation?

You mean you had to train them to become feckwits???

Don’t get me started on the system pertaining then

[Fox3WheresMyBanana]

This is solely the result of Government bureaucracy, and can be seen in practically every aspect of business. The Probation Service subcontracting has just gone tits up, and the same is happening in education, etc. Remember security at the Olympics? The winners are the conglomerates who know f-all about any of the businesses they bid for, but everything about how to make Government contract bids.
Why does it happen?
Well, firstly it has to be remembered that Ministers, and some senior civil servants, are doing very nicely both over what is decided to be contracted out and how that process works. Nothing as grubby as brown envelopes; it's speeches at company dinners for outrageous fees, non-executive directorships that appear 2 years after retirement from public life, etc. HS2 is the current peak of the pile of ordure that is Government spending for the sake of profiteering.
Secondly, of course, it suits bureaucrats to have as complex a process as possible for any work, since it builds their empires, protects their jobs, and covers their backsides.
And it's not just the UK, everywhere is suffering from the same problems.
How to fix it?
You need politicians with integrity, real world experience, courage, and intelligence. The current status of political parties in western democracies almost guarantees that very few will come forward, and still fewer will rise to positions of power. If politicians with these qualities are elected, it almost doesn't matter what their political views are (as long as they aren't too far from centre), since any failing policies will be recognised from experience and intelligence, and their courage and integrity will oblige them to change to successful policies. What works will happen naturally over a Parliament or two.
You need smaller bureaucracies, but the current process for modifying them just enlarges them further.
So, firstly, elect honest people, especially independents.
Secondly, cut entire parts of Government bureaucracy by repealing the legislation that creates the need for them. This gets round all the guaranteed jobs for bureaucrats rubbish.

Honest representatives, less laws.

Never happen, of course. Good luck in the collapse.

[4mastacker]

Don’t get me started on the system pertaining then

Go on - do tell!! You know you want to.

[Boac]

PN - from 1965 onwards there have indeed been periods of excessive 'holding' in pilot training - I had two of around 8 weeks each in 66/67 and some later had up to a year. It is not new.

[Sisemen]

Don’t get me started on the system pertaining then

Go on - do tell!! You know you want to.

Try - the push for aircrew (because of previous manning cock-ups) = a lot of what would be previously qualified as “waste of space” = standards lowered to the point where IOT training staff were pulling their hair out = need to graduate as “the flying schools will sort them out” = “well, Cranwell graduated them, who are we to argue?” = 30 years later “I’m a Group Captain/Air Officer and I know what I’m doing and you’ll damned well do as you’re told”.

[Boac]

Tell me about it! During my sojourn as a QFI at the 'College of Knowledge' the senior idiot at MOD declared the policy that 'there is no such thing as a bad student, only a bad instructor'

Hah! We showed 'em.....................

[4mastacker]

I can believe the 'waste of space' tag. We received them as Supply officers.

[Undried Plum]

Privatisation is the answer.

Attila the Hen told us so, so it must be true.

Flog off our nuke stuff to Root'n'Toot derivative companies.

Flog off the training of Hoskins to some LocMar derivative bunch of numpties. Directorships and consultancies all round, and mine's a stiff gin.

Anyway, when was the last time an RAF pilot in an RAF aircraft shot down an enemy aircraft? It's not as if we need 'em to do so again, izzit?

[Pontius Navigator]

So a Jaguar doesn't count?

[Undried Plum]

As an enemy? No.

Not even a ffrench one counts, in this context.

[Cacophonix]

This is solely the result of Government bureaucracy, and can be seen in practically every aspect of business. The Probation Service subcontracting has just gone tits up, and the same is happening in education, etc. Remember security at the Olympics? The winners are the conglomerates who know f-all about any of the businesses they bid for, but everything about how to make Government contract bids.
Why does it happen?
Well, firstly it has to be remembered that Ministers, and some senior civil servants, are doing very nicely both over what is decided to be contracted out and how that process works. Nothing as grubby as brown envelopes; it's speeches at company dinners for outrageous fees, non-executive directorships that appear 2 years after retirement from public life, etc. HS2 is the current peak of the pile of ordure that is Government spending for the sake of profiteering.
Secondly, of course, it suits bureaucrats to have as complex a process as possible for any work, since it builds their empires, protects their jobs, and covers their backsides.
And it's not just the UK, everywhere is suffering from the same problems.
How to fix it?
You need politicians with integrity, real world experience, courage, and intelligence. The current status of political parties in western democracies almost guarantees that very few will come forward, and still fewer will rise to positions of power. If politicians with these qualities are elected, it almost doesn't matter what their political views are (as long as they aren't too far from centre), since any failing policies will be recognised from experience and intelligence, and their courage and integrity will oblige them to change to successful policies. What works will happen naturally over a Parliament or two.
You need smaller bureaucracies, but the current process for modifying them just enlarges them further.
So, firstly, elect honest people, especially independents.
Secondly, cut entire parts of Government bureaucracy by repealing the legislation that creates the need for them. This gets round all the guaranteed jobs for bureaucrats rubbish.

Honest representatives, less laws.

Never happen, of course. Good luck in the collapse.

Sums it up pretty well!

+1

Winging it can be heard here if you live in the UK

Caco

[Krystal n Chips]

Sometimes, the great privatisation plan fails.

Whilst the flying training has clearly become a disaster in its own right, cast your minds back to around 2008 (ish ) and the proposal to privatise engineer training across all three services, to be based at Gulag St Athan. Lots of pretty PR promotional material and some very intense lobbying..no surprise given some of the " yuckspeak " stakeholders involved and with the subtle inference the Army would be in overall control.

This little venture was named "Metrix ". Thankfully, it didn't actually come to fruition but it was a very close run thing.

[Cacophonix]

Listening to that excellent BBC documentary made me realise that officers like Air Commodore Edwards are truly political 'shlimemeisters'. He should be punched straight between the eyes for his bull about Zero Loading, as explained in in that dissembling, oh so sincere, English voice, as he protects his career and the backsides of the other **** mediocrities at the MOD and in the government!

The issues ref. the Hawk T2 and the Texan T6 are not incredible but should have been foreseen by those who should know better.

Caco