Wildcat first firing of Martlet Lightweight Multirole Missile(LMM)

[CharlieOneSix]

Extracts from MOD and Thales Press Releases:
.

The Yeovilton-based Wildcat Maritime Force, which includes 815 Naval Air Squadron, is focused on ensuring the UK is prepared for future global threats. Blasting from a Wildcat helicopter, the new Martlet missile was this week tested on a range off the coast of Wales. The trials mark an important milestone in the testing of the new system which will arm the Wildcat helicopters that deploy as part of HMS Queen Elizabeth’s maiden operational deployment next year.

Managed by the Lightweight and Medium Attack Systems and Wildcat delivery teams at DE&S, and manufactured by Thales. According to Thales, LMM is a low cost, lightweight, precision strike, missile, which has been designed to be fired from tactical platforms including fixed or rotary winged UAV s and surface platforms. The system is designed to provide a rapid reaction to a wide range of the surface threats from wheeled or tracked vehicles, towed artillery or static installations; naval threats from small ships and fast inshore attack craft and an air threat from light aircraft.

Martlet will ensure the Wildcat has the best-in-class offensive capability to protect the carrier strike group. With each helicopter capable of carrying up to 20 missiles, the Wildcats deployed will be a significant deterrent to anyone wishing to interfere with UK interests.

[Boac]

Will it sink a RIB?

[Undried Plum]

The Yeovilton-based Wildcat Maritime Force, which includes 815 Naval Air Squadron, is focused on ensuring the UK is prepared for future global threats.

Spanking a 0.1μ diameter virus with a precision-guided munition is bloody good shooting.

Could be useful for the next pandemic, a truly "global threat".

Hoorah for the Navy! Always ready to fight a previous war.

I reckon the two Blaircaft carriers, equipped with some Lynx-derivatives carrying a few of these squibs, could make a right old mess of the former USS Phoenix without needing a submarine. Alas and alac, that target is being stealthy by having been laid low by a brace of WW2 vintage MkVIII torpedoes.

[FD2]

I wonder how many Wildcats will be embarked in QE and any of the escorts they can cobble together for her first deployment to the Far East next year. Escorts will probably have Merlins embarked, as will QE. I hope 617 will be fully up to strength by then.

The Chinese thugs will certainly have many aircraft deployed to defend their stolen South China Sea sandbank island bases. About all the RN will be able to do is defend the freedom of navigation through those areas and it is now so pitifully under strength that that's about all.

Still, there's plenty of time to worry about important day to day matters for the First Sea Lord:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... power.html

Late April Fool Joke...

[CharlieOneSix]

...... Still, there's plenty of time to worry about important day to day matters for the First Sea Lord:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... power.html

Late April Fool Joke...

Oh dear God, what a farce. So Seaman might become Seaperson! I can’t believe the Canadians are removing the Seaman rank due to its double entendre possibilities.

[G-CPTN]

Matelot.

[PHXPhlyer]

Male overboard. Fe(Male) would work.

PP

[Boac]

Would that mean no more 'Seaman Staines' and 'Roger the Cabinboy', then?

Will the 'Golden Rivet' now have to become the 'Diamond Weld' or similar?

By the time you have shouted '"Person of no specific sexual gender or orientation overboard." it may be too late to turn the ship.

[FD2]

I will be fascinated to see what they replace terms like 'seaman' with. I guess this move is as a result of a comprehensive investigation into the reasons young women are not joining in sufficient numbers, which revealed that they are offended by being referred to as 'seamen'...ho hum. Offer them a better range of cosmetics I say - Dior or whatever, on the house of course because the MOD has plenty of dosh - together with satin sheets and the best makes of undies (cotton of course in case of fires), in fact anything it takes to recruit the sort of female matelot the country needs. Oh, and no mixed showers with any hairy ar*sed blokes pretending to be wimmin - that's OK in theory but not in practice.

I think the truth is that there is a desperate shortage of young people of both sexes willing to serve in the armed forces, probably because there are no conflicts taking place at the moment which usually brings young men through the doors to prove how hard they are, and the girls? I suspect they have been brainwashed at school into thinking that the country is being run by fascists who don't give a toss about 'climate change' or which is deliberately being nasty and starving black people or is taking them out of the EU against their wills etc etc, and so their country or nation means bugger all against these more important causes, innit?

The boys can prove how hard they are by fighting/vomiting/pissing in the streets after chucking out time and are mostly too unfit to pass the initial joining medicals for the forces as they lead generally sedentary lives in front of playstations at home and computer screens if they work. The girls can go on demos and attack fascists wherever they think they see them.

[FD2]

The row caused by Broon's decision not to build cats and traps fitted carriers and the fallout 'moving forward' ( how I loathe that expression) rumbles on:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... warplanes/

Who'd 'a' thocht it?

Sorry to drift the thread C16, this is NOT an invitation to start a round of inter-service savagery!

[FD2]

Now this is how young men can have a good day out - go to Thorpe Park and stab someone! 'Spect they dissed them or summink.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ridge.html

I know this should be in the WTF UK thread but it's supporting #9. Sorry for the drift again.

[TheGreenGoblin]

The Chinese thugs will certainly have many aircraft deployed to defend their stolen South China Sea sandbank island bases. About all the RN will be able to do is defend the freedom of navigation through those areas and it is now so pitifully under strength that that's about all.

I suspect that the new generation of stand off Chinese hypersonic missiles now coming into operational use might pose a significant threat, even to a properly deployed, constituted and supported carrier group comprising of both US and UK ships, boats, aircraft and other assets...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DF-ZF

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/ ... les-132037

[TheGreenGoblin]

The Chinese thugs will certainly have many aircraft deployed to defend their stolen South China Sea sandbank island bases. About all the RN will be able to do is defend the freedom of navigation through those areas and it is now so pitifully under strength that that's about all.

I suspect that the new generation of stand off Chinese hypersonic missiles now coming into operational use might pose a significant threat, even to a properly deployed, constituted and supported carrier group comprising of both US and UK ships, boats, aircraft and other assets...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DF-ZF

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/ ... les-132037

No doubt the Marlet would be a useful weapon in a Gulf like scenario against an enemy (like Iran) using asymmetric warfare techniques to encroach upon and engage with a carrier force (for example) but I question its usefulness in a South China Sea scenario against a far more sophisticated enemy like China...

Martlet will give the RN much better capability, particularly against swarm attacks but as a new type of weapon in service, there are many questions to resolve. In high threat areas, a Martlet-armed Wildcat may be held at readiness on deck to respond to situations that could develop rapidly. For the frigates and destroyers, the embarked helicopter has a multitude of other tasks including surveillance, anti-submarine warfare and general transport duties. When the weapon wing is fitted there is no space for the pintle mount for the .50Cal M3M heavy machine gun which may be a more flexible and appropriate weapon in some circumstances. The Type 45 destroyers and Type 26 frigates will have hangar space for two Wildcats and it may make sense to have one Marlet/Sea Venom-equipped Wildcat ready for anti-surface duties backed by a second aircraft for other tasks. When operating with the Carrier Strike Group it will be interesting to see if Wildcats operate directly from the carriers or are carried by the escorts that form the defensive cordon around the carrier.

A fleet of small boats could behave apparently quite innocently, only switching to a mass attack at the last moment before a helicopter has time to get airborne. Iranian boats frequently harass or sail very close to coalition warships in the Gulf and despite being easy meat for Martlet or 30mm cannon, commanders are always working hard not to escalate this ‘grey zone’ conflict into a shooting war. While the helicopter has the advantage of speed, manoeuvrability, a good view and the ability to engage enemies at a much safer distance from the ship, the ship-mounted Martlet makes good sense as another layer of close defence. As a weapon primarily designed to counter asymmetric threats, the most challenging issue for the Martlet-armed Wildcat crew may be rules of engagement and the split-second decisions about whether to release weapons or not.

https://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/the-ma ... its-claws/

[FD2]

Has this hypersonic missile been observed by anyone apart from the Chinese yet GG? I guess it must be if it's coming into operational service. It's not an area of interest for me, though I know it will be so important in the future.

[TheGreenGoblin]

Has this hypersonic missile been observed by anyone apart from the Chinese yet GG? I guess it must be if it's coming into operational service. It's not an area of interest for me, though I know it will be so important in the future.

Whither one's enemy (and potential enemies) goes so one should likely follow and the Chinese are moving to counter this joint development by India and the Russians and also to present the US with a serious threat to their ability to operate in China's backyard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrahMos

This technology is very much extant, albeit still in the development phase, and is being developed at a very quick pace by the Chinese et al. The USA is behind the curve here and the UK is still nowhere with respect to both the technology itself and countermeasures against this class of missiles.

We underestimate Chinese missile developments, and their current state of technology, at our peril FD2 particularly if we seek to do more than posture as a serious naval power.

However if Britain seriously feels it is able to afford the Queen Elizabeth class of carriers and actually has the will, technology and assets to actually project power and protect its fleet in places like the South China Sea then it better start looking seriously at the ramifications of this class of weapon (i.e. long distance supersonic, and hypersonic, stand off missiles). There is a big gulf (pun intended) between fighting a war against a bunch of fanatics in rubber ducks and seriously bearding the Chinese (thugs they may be) and their technology in the South China Sea.

As for the Martlet LMM, I am very interested in the weapon, and have been deeply interested, for many years, in what both Shorts and now Thales are up to there in Northern Ireland...

https://www.ops-normal.org/viewtopic.ph ... 88#p238088

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martlet_(missile)

[FD2]

So not in service yet?

I don't think that the Americans or any other navies had any ill intent operating in China's 'backyard'. The South China Sea was, until the Chinese set up their island bases, a 'free' area and China has no legitimate claim to what they have grabbed. By doing so the Chinese intimidated the Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam and any others who thought that at least part of the area was in their own backyard and they had a real claim to it under the Law of the Sea. Oil may be the spoils to the victor but the Chinese have only themselves to blame for any response shown by the US and their allies to their actions. The excuse being 'historical reasons' - typically a vague reason - as expected from a 'leftist' country. I don't think for a moment that Trump will start a shooting war there and the UK certainly won't.

The US position: https://www.state.gov/u-s-position-on-m ... china-sea/

The ASEAN position: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... ea-dispute

The UN position: https://www.un.org/Depts/los/doalos_pub ... 91_WEB.pdf

I have thought for some time that the UK should not try to be such a big player on the world stage. Successive governments have taken full advantage of the 'peace dividend' to lose sight of just what their military forces could accomplish against a huge emerging power like China - just expecting more and more for less and less from their military.

The re-taking of the Falklands could not, in my opinion, have been accomplished a year or two later when the carriers had been flogged to Australia at knock down prices. And the UK was only up against subsonic Exocets, brave pilots flying outclassed attack aircraft and a largely demoralised army of conscripts - a closer run thing than it should have been.

I dare say the military minds and intelligence services in the west are well aware of exactly what capability the Chinese have, as opposed to what the Chinese claim to have.

[TheGreenGoblin]

So not in service yet?


I don't think that the Americans or any other navies had any ill intent operating in China's 'backyard'. The South China Sea was, until the Chinese set up their island bases, a 'free' area and China has no legitimate claim to what they have grabbed. By doing so the Chinese intimidated the Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam and any others who thought that at least part of the area was in their own backyard and they had a real claim to it under the Law of the Sea. Oil may be the spoils to the victor but the Chinese have only themselves to blame for any response shown by the US and their allies to their actions. The excuse being 'historical reasons' - typically a vague reason - as expected from a 'leftist' country. I don't think for a moment that Trump will start a shooting war there and the UK certainly won't.

The US position: https://www.state.gov/u-s-position-on-m ... china-sea/

The ASEAN position: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... ea-dispute

The UN position: https://www.un.org/Depts/los/doalos_pub ... 91_WEB.pdf

I have thought for some time that the UK should not try to be such a big player on the world stage. Successive governments have taken full advantage of the 'peace dividend' to lose sight of just what their military forces could accomplish against a huge emerging power like China - just expecting more and more for less and less from their military.

The re-taking of the Falklands could not, in my opinion, have been accomplished a year or two later when the carriers had been flogged to Australia at knock down prices. And the UK was only up against subsonic Exocets, brave pilots flying outclassed attack aircraft and a largely demoralised army of conscripts - a closer run thing than it should have been.

I dare say the military minds and intelligence services in the west are well aware of exactly what capability the Chinese have, as opposed to what the Chinese claim to have.

I fully understand why the USA (and the UK, by posturing on their coat tails) seeks to continue to exercise their rights in the South China Sea. I am not trying to justify what the Chinese are doing, just pointing out that the West has always tended to underestimate Chinese capacity and technology since the Korean war.

As for Chinese claims I would suggest we wake up quickly from our complacency with respect to their technology in many spheres even if the Chinese are obfuscating or even overstating their abilities. There is no doubt that China is now a true world power.

I don't disagree with any of your comments in the main though... which is a pity because it is so often far more fun to do so on these types of forums...

[FD2]

I don't for a moment doubt that China is now a major power but I dislike the way they are behaving. More fool the west for playing into their hands for so many years. It will take a long time to re-establish local industries after so much manufacturing and money was handed over.

[Undried Plum]

For Britain to be strutting its former stuff in the South China Sea in the 21st century is an absurd anachronism.

Imagine how pissed off we'd be if the Chinee sent a fleet of carriers and subs and other war canoes to do a 13nm drive-by of the Falklands or Rockall or Alderney or Fair Isle or the Isle of May or the Isle of Wight or Shoeburyness.

[FD2]

Yes - just like we got 'concerned' about that Russian carrier steaming smoking down the Channel but were short of any ships to 'see them off'.

Now if the Chinese were to do that we'd really get 'jolly cross'.