Russian submarine collided with British warship part in rare event

[Boac]

The breathless claim the that warship saved the international subsea cable from being cut

Considering that the ship failed completely in that 'task', where do you see that claim?

More queries for our 'maritimers' - what tactical considerations would prevent the ship pinging or the hecolocopter dangling its dangly bit in the water?

[Pontius Navigator]

Er none really is you are certain he is a Sub. Those masts tend to give it away. It is just possible that your RoE prevent you going active.

And we only assume that the masts relate to that bit of the action.

I think the ship also changed its pennant number. I can't be arssed to watch again but think I saw F238 early on and F78 later (certainly I saw 3 numbers at one moment and 2 later)

[Boac]

I'm trying to understand your reply! Why would RoE prevent?

I'm talking about the bit (ostensibly) before any 'masts' were seen, so what is the relevance. If they didn't think "is you are certain he is a Sub." what were they doing there?

[Pontius Navigator]

BOAC, RoE apply. CERTAIN has a specific meaning in ASW. Until they saw the mast it is not certain.

Very much blind man's bluff.

[Boac]

Until they saw the mast it is not certain.

You are not making sense! What was not 'certain'? What did they think they has lost contact with? What did they think they had been dramatically 'racing to the cable' (to save the UK from doom and destruction) and 'shadowing' for days? A Tesla powered whale? "Of course, we are not CERTAIN it is a Russian sub" WHAT??!!

[Pontius Navigator]

There 7 categories. Non Sub, Possub 1-4, Probsub, and Certsub. I think they had sufficient information to go Probsub.

I told you it's a black art.

[Boac]

That is not 'black art' - it is mumbo jumbo. Had they or had they not IDENTIFIED the sub class already? One would certainly hope so, otherwise wtf are they doing there? ASW Basic 1? (Not ASW, of course, since we are not 'at war'?)

In any case, what stops one using a ping? Does this mean our valiant maritime forces cannot use active sonar at any time just in case there is an 'Category 1-6' sub in the area? Heaven help us.

What has 'sighting the masts' got to do with it anyway?

[Undried Plum]

That sub showed itself at periscope depth because it wanted to be seen. It's not like the WW2 diesel boats which needed to snort. That thing can stay deep for weeks or months. I'm pretty sure they have comms floats just like the RN's grey catamaran ones for whenever they need to squirt a burst transmission to a satellite. They would quite certainly have heard the helicopter and were aware of what its task du jour was likely to be.

Quite why it wanted to be seen is unclear.

Could it be that there were actually two subs? Could the one sighted have been a decoy to draw the search away from the other one? Russians are quite good at chess. I got the impression that the officers on that ship were a bit fick.

With those klaxon alarms and the very loud pipe of the various breakdowns Northumberland would have been audible to the submarine(s?) from 60 miles away.

Yes, the PWO or OOW or skipper really did say "What **** have I hit?", but the spin doctors insist on saying that the sub hit the ship, not the other way around.

[Pontius Navigator]

Oh, and deadly fumes from the mast spreading through the ship!

What happened to the post Falklands smoke blankets on all passageway doors? Or even shutting the doors. Or does this only apply to destroyers?

[Boac]

PN - let's explore this 'theory of warfare' of yours further. Do correct me if I am wrong, because this is most concerning. While you were defending me in my sleep from the nasty Russians you say that a sub could only be 'pinged' (or, presumably, attacked) if it could be sighted on the surface and thus classified '7'?

[Boac]

Another Q for the maritimers - a play was made on how the clever and brave Northumberland fended off the evil Russian spy ship which wanted to get a recording of the US sub's signature, which one assumes, therefore, they didn't have?

OK - how, then, did they know the sub was there? According to PN they would not ping since they would not have confirmed the sub by seeing it on the surface.

[CharlieOneSix]

Mrs C16 is extremely glad that was the last episode of Warship at Sea tonight as I spent nearly the whole hour shouting at the TV trying to get the idiot narrator to shut up and stop his puerile comments. The final ridiculous comment was when the Coastguard helicopter arrived to airlift the guy with Covid we were told the civilian helicopter pilot had never landed on a ship before. Jeez - a Coastguard pilot who hasn't done that?!!! He was probably ex-mil anyway. It was a perfect approach from the port quarter, a deck landing with the nosewheels immaculately placed either side of the deck centre line followed by a standard departure to port. I can't believe their Lordships at the Admiralty were happy with those 6 episodes.

[Boac]

I could not understand (as portrayed by the programme) why the ship's helo could not fly. Rather than infect the Coastguard crew with Covid, it would seem to be sensible to use the already 'at risk' crew - as long as they were fit?

(I agree with clan C16)

[Undried Plum]

I could not understand (as portrayed by the programme) why the ship's helo could not fly. Rather than infect the Coastguard crew with Covid, it would seem to be sensible to use the already 'at risk' crew - as long as they were fit?

I got the impression that the Merlin crew was being isolated from the rest of the ship's company to avoid becoming infected as the helicopter is such a useful part of the ship's capability.

[Boac]

I got the impression that the Merlin crew was being isolated from the rest of the ship's company to avoid becoming infected as the helicopter is such a useful part of the ship's capability.

Which cannot be used in an emergency?

I would have thought it rather difficult to 'isolate' anyone!

[Undried Plum]

Clearly, it was not regarded as an emergency to such an extent. Merely a medevac best done by the civvies.

Yes, they did their best to keep the Merlin crew away from the seething masses yearning to breathe free, but there' only so much you can do. Hence the MoD decision to abort Northumberland's cruise.

Rather like the HG Wells tale whereby the mighty Martians were taken down by the blue planet's bacteria, Russia's "most deadly warship" was as nothing when compared to a wee spherical spikey thing less than half the diameter of the wavelength of visible light.

[Boac]

I'd be interested to know what 'use' you (as a hypothetical Frigate Captain) would wish to 'retain' the helo for, UP? More rum and baccy from shore? More vaseline for the chief stoker?

[Undried Plum]

Hunting a dastartdly Russkie 8,000 tonne warship trying to sneak up the Gare Loch in broad daylight; hunting dastardly Russky sub attempting to sever the tendons which keep Norn Iron attached to Britain; preventing pesky Russkies from finding the secret plug on the seabed and draining the Irish Sea; keeping the sky above mast height; saving the world. Y'know, that sort of thing.

[Boac]

None of which would actually matter to a ship in the North Sea?

[Boac]